But there’s nothing stopping you from actually reading boss patterns and dodging them.
Is there enough information to do this on the first time through, if you have enough skill? Or is it necessary to try and fail multiple times to see and learn each pattern?
How would the game give you any more information than it already does without worsening gameplay? Like sure, you can make the boss' moves slower and more telegraphed. Put in Atreus to tell you the Boss' weakness or something while you fight him. I'm personally not a fan of that.
I definitely dislike this dynamic in games. If you're only able to win because you built up muscle memory for that specific segment of the game, it doesn't feel like a real win, feels almost as unrewarding as grinding XP to make things easier.
If you don't enjoy practicing bosses, FromSoft games will probably not be for you.
This is not a dunk! There is nothing inherently superior or worthwhile about games that require practice. I personally enjoy Soulslike games, but people who claim they're they're the One True Genre are just fooling themselves.
Probably, though I did beat and enjoy the first three games in the Dark Souls series (if you include Demon's Souls) before I got tired of it, despite having to iterate on some bosses. There are a few saving graces that make it tolerable: effective options for cheesing, being able to grind XP/gear to make it easier, mandatory downtime between fights that punishes trying to brute force practice them, the option to give up for a while and go explore somewhere else, the presence of more dynamics to fights to optimize than correctly reacting to patterns to the point where you can remain mostly ignorant of them and still win another way. Playing DS3 I got the feeling that maybe the issue was getting worse and I was kind of burned out on the gameplay overall so I dropped it.
I would cite Super Meat Boy as a more pure example of the problem I'm talking about, that game left me feeling brain fried and like I hadn't learned or accomplished anything.
mandatory downtime between fights that punishes trying to brute force practice them
Fascinating. This would frustrate the hell out of me - if I'm trying to get better at something, the last thing I want is enforced wait-time between practice attempts! Still, I'm glad you've found other games that you enjoy more rather than being influenced by the Internet's collective fan-boner for FromSoft.
I'd like to direct your attention to the prior games in the series we're discussing, which have no such issues despite being made by Fromsoft. This "hurr durr issa Fromsoft boss get used to it" schtick is fucking insufferable and ignores the 15 years of history that company had before making those godawful Dark Souls games.
Personally I love that! The best bosses are the ones that absolutely demolish me a dozen times while I figure them out.
It makes finally succeeding feel like I've accomplished something.
Is there enough information to do this on the first time through, if you have enough skill? Or is it necessary to try and fail multiple times to see and learn each pattern?
How would the game give you any more information than it already does without worsening gameplay? Like sure, you can make the boss' moves slower and more telegraphed. Put in Atreus to tell you the Boss' weakness or something while you fight him. I'm personally not a fan of that.
I definitely dislike this dynamic in games. If you're only able to win because you built up muscle memory for that specific segment of the game, it doesn't feel like a real win, feels almost as unrewarding as grinding XP to make things easier.
If you don't enjoy practicing bosses, FromSoft games will probably not be for you.
This is not a dunk! There is nothing inherently superior or worthwhile about games that require practice. I personally enjoy Soulslike games, but people who claim they're they're the One True Genre are just fooling themselves.
Probably, though I did beat and enjoy the first three games in the Dark Souls series (if you include Demon's Souls) before I got tired of it, despite having to iterate on some bosses. There are a few saving graces that make it tolerable: effective options for cheesing, being able to grind XP/gear to make it easier, mandatory downtime between fights that punishes trying to brute force practice them, the option to give up for a while and go explore somewhere else, the presence of more dynamics to fights to optimize than correctly reacting to patterns to the point where you can remain mostly ignorant of them and still win another way. Playing DS3 I got the feeling that maybe the issue was getting worse and I was kind of burned out on the gameplay overall so I dropped it.
I would cite Super Meat Boy as a more pure example of the problem I'm talking about, that game left me feeling brain fried and like I hadn't learned or accomplished anything.
Fascinating. This would frustrate the hell out of me - if I'm trying to get better at something, the last thing I want is enforced wait-time between practice attempts! Still, I'm glad you've found other games that you enjoy more rather than being influenced by the Internet's collective fan-boner for FromSoft.
I'd like to direct your attention to the prior games in the series we're discussing, which have no such issues despite being made by Fromsoft. This "hurr durr issa Fromsoft boss get used to it" schtick is fucking insufferable and ignores the 15 years of history that company had before making those godawful Dark Souls games.
Personally I love that! The best bosses are the ones that absolutely demolish me a dozen times while I figure them out.
It makes finally succeeding feel like I've accomplished something.