If you change environments to one that allows that behavior to no longer be a problem then they no longer have a disorder.
This you?
Where in this sentence is it implied that it is possible let alone easily doable to change the environment? Using an "if" conditional implies a hypothetical and nothing more. You people are being nonsensical and looking to be angry for reason beyond comprehension at this point.
I don't even think it should be labeled as a disorder... If you change environments to one that allows that behavior to no longer be a problem then they no longer have a disorder.
So you don't think it should be labeled a disorder because doing something that you are now claiming is you never said "possible let alone easily doable" fixes it?
Please clarify exactly why you don't think it should be called a disorder. You seem to be rapidly backpedaling about what you did or didn't say without actually backing up your point, just whining that any mistake on your part is a misunderstanding on mine. You have an opportunity to clarify instead of whine, explicitly. So go ahead, clarify why it shouldn't be a disorder.
I have dealt with ADD and a problem called misophonia my entire life. I'll stick with misophonia for now since it is easier to summarize. This is a very real difference with my mind that can be thought of as "not normal" among the majority. Specific sounds cause what can be described as an anxiety attack for me. This is completely out of my control and no amount of logical reasoning can make my body stop behaving this way. Even when I know for certain there is nothing wrong with that sound and I shouldn't be so annoyed with it. Regardless, it has caused me a lot of trouble being able to function in modern society where I can't avoid being around these specific sounds. When something different with your mind starts to cause significant problems functioning in society is when we label something as a mental disorder. This is literally the definition of a mental disorder. Now imagine for a moment there was an environment that didn't have any of these sounds that cause me problems. Or how about an environment with no sounds at all? The difference with my mind would never even have an opportunity to present itself and thus would never even be known. Therefore it can be said that I don't have a mental disorder in this environment. It is likely not possible for most mental disorders to have any feasible change environment that could make it not difficult to exist in that environment. I've made no such claims and that is an entirely a fabrication of yours.
The crux of the problem I am getting at is that the way people think of mental disorders is from an ableist perspective. That there is something wrong with the person themselves for the way they were born. This is merely a problem of semantics and definitions as I have said many times.
In the future please stop being so rude and intentionally misinterpreting intent. You give off the impression of a very rude person with ableist points of view which is rather uncool.
You're damn right I'm being rude to somebody that says my very real disorder shouldn't be recognized because if we were in an environment that doesn't exist we'd be ok, so it doesn't really count . Well, I live in a real place that I can't control and I have very real maladaptations to it. There is absolutely something wrong with me that will likely shorten my life and make it worse in a number of ways. Pretending that those outcomes don't exist or erasing the struggle of the people with ADHD, including your own, by saying it doesn't deserve to be classified as a disorder is erasure and ableist. I'm not misinterpreting your point, it's just a bad point.
TIL I'm not poor because in a different environment (where money doesn't exist) I'm fine!
One person with ADHD to you: you're wildly misunderstanding or you're trolling. There is no alternative here.
They are not suggesting ADHD should not be recognized as something we deserve accomodations for. They are saying the exact opposite on a true but unrealistic level. They are saying it's only a problem that requires accomodations because of the way the world runs on neurotypical ideas and generally under neurotypical leadership. Everything.
Neurotypical folks will never question the 9-5 because it works for them. But it's a problem for them if you can't maintain working schedules.
They will never understand the constant executive challenges we face, so they cannot relate to our struggles. They don't care enough to empathize, so it's an ironic character judgement against you.
Finding a job that even tickles your interest is hard. Finding leadership that gets it is very difficult. Making it through the screening process to the interview can be almost impossible. But that's just how things are, right?
The environmental problem is neurotypical dominance at every level of life from the top down and the expectations you will held to by default as a direct result of that. The ease with which you are brushed off is a result of the combination of those unfair expectations, their lack of understanding, and the connotation of "disorder." It makes you a problem not worth considering to them.
The desire for freedom from the expectation of working like a robot on a rigid schedule doing something that doesn't interest you in the slightest, is probably universal. Sure.
There are plenty of ADHD folks who are able to outperform neurotypical peers when they have a suitable environment. They typically have quite a few accomodations being made by empathetic leadership to create the mental space they need. In my own case, this meant a near complete disregard for when working hours occur, judgements based on results as opposed to daily stand-ups and reports, and completely bypassing hierarchies of communication to limit people's access to pulling me out of hyperfocus.
Not like overwhelming people with needlessly repetitive information stretched out over long periods of time littered with small talk and nonsense doesn't have value, it's just completely counter to what the ADHD brain needs to work.
The almost complete lack of alternatives which align to your natural cycles and focus states is a social failing to recognize that you are not disordered at all. You just do not have viable options so they slapped disordered on you and make you jump through fees and hoops for accomodations. Because this is America: one size fits all or you're broken.
So here you are, demanding they close your cage and keep you in there. (which is a shitty band-aid you appear to recognize is the best we've got)
Since changing the world in that way (suggested by Izzy) is impossible, it is trolling everyone to suggest that the problem isn't real because if the environment were changed it wouldn't be a problem. It's a hypothetical fantasy and should have been stated as such. It's a shallow excuse to argue to invalidate the experiences of others. An attempt to lessen how seriously this disorder is seen. It is so precisely written and constructed to do this, that it seems quite impossible to have been an accident. Basic composition classes in college struggle to teach people to do this on purpose so clearly and succinctly.
No, genuinely, you're reading it wrong and taking it personally because others already started the downvote train. Yes what they suggest isn't immediately realistic, but it's easily achievable if people actually wanted to do it.
Like are you under the belief that all of our social structures were borne out of the natural order of the universe - entirely immutable and incapable of change?
Is it truly not possible in your mind that we are arbitrarily subjecting ourselves to unnecessary cruelty for the comfort of people who think change can't happen?
They never said the problem isn't real. They said the way society is structured is what make it manifest as a problem because society is not equipped to accommodate you as you deserve. You don't deserve to be treated as a broken individual, you deserve to not have an unjustly difficult life because of something you were born with. Giving it a negative connotation label as a disorder affects the way people (without a clinical understanding of the word) behave toward you. The label is enhancing the harm you face and would be the first step toward altering the public understanding of ADHD.
you're wildly misunderstanding or you're trolling.
Yeah, blocking you, too. That's not the start to a good faith conversation.
I understand. I disagree. I refuse to pretend ADHD would be great in some magical land. It would still suck. I would still be tired all the time. I would still have many symptoms that have no upside. I would still want it gone.
Ok troll
Looks like @Skiv must be @Izzy on a second user account.
How's that paranoia going for you?
I have to assume you are trolling at this point. Please go away if you are going to be an asshole. You are completely fabricating nonsense on your own which makes me feel like you are just making fun of people with conditions. This is directly against the rules.
This you?
Where in this sentence is it implied that it is possible let alone easily doable to change the environment? Using an "if" conditional implies a hypothetical and nothing more. You people are being nonsensical and looking to be angry for reason beyond comprehension at this point.
So you don't think it should be labeled a disorder because doing something that you are now claiming is you never said "possible let alone easily doable" fixes it?
Please clarify exactly why you don't think it should be called a disorder. You seem to be rapidly backpedaling about what you did or didn't say without actually backing up your point, just whining that any mistake on your part is a misunderstanding on mine. You have an opportunity to clarify instead of whine, explicitly. So go ahead, clarify why it shouldn't be a disorder.
I have dealt with ADD and a problem called misophonia my entire life. I'll stick with misophonia for now since it is easier to summarize. This is a very real difference with my mind that can be thought of as "not normal" among the majority. Specific sounds cause what can be described as an anxiety attack for me. This is completely out of my control and no amount of logical reasoning can make my body stop behaving this way. Even when I know for certain there is nothing wrong with that sound and I shouldn't be so annoyed with it. Regardless, it has caused me a lot of trouble being able to function in modern society where I can't avoid being around these specific sounds. When something different with your mind starts to cause significant problems functioning in society is when we label something as a mental disorder. This is literally the definition of a mental disorder. Now imagine for a moment there was an environment that didn't have any of these sounds that cause me problems. Or how about an environment with no sounds at all? The difference with my mind would never even have an opportunity to present itself and thus would never even be known. Therefore it can be said that I don't have a mental disorder in this environment. It is likely not possible for most mental disorders to have any feasible change environment that could make it not difficult to exist in that environment. I've made no such claims and that is an entirely a fabrication of yours.
The crux of the problem I am getting at is that the way people think of mental disorders is from an ableist perspective. That there is something wrong with the person themselves for the way they were born. This is merely a problem of semantics and definitions as I have said many times.
In the future please stop being so rude and intentionally misinterpreting intent. You give off the impression of a very rude person with ableist points of view which is rather uncool.
You're damn right I'm being rude to somebody that says my very real disorder shouldn't be recognized because if we were in an environment that doesn't exist we'd be ok, so it doesn't really count . Well, I live in a real place that I can't control and I have very real maladaptations to it. There is absolutely something wrong with me that will likely shorten my life and make it worse in a number of ways. Pretending that those outcomes don't exist or erasing the struggle of the people with ADHD, including your own, by saying it doesn't deserve to be classified as a disorder is erasure and ableist. I'm not misinterpreting your point, it's just a bad point.
TIL I'm not poor because in a different environment (where money doesn't exist) I'm fine!
One person with ADHD to you: you're wildly misunderstanding or you're trolling. There is no alternative here.
They are not suggesting ADHD should not be recognized as something we deserve accomodations for. They are saying the exact opposite on a true but unrealistic level. They are saying it's only a problem that requires accomodations because of the way the world runs on neurotypical ideas and generally under neurotypical leadership. Everything.
Neurotypical folks will never question the 9-5 because it works for them. But it's a problem for them if you can't maintain working schedules.
They will never understand the constant executive challenges we face, so they cannot relate to our struggles. They don't care enough to empathize, so it's an ironic character judgement against you.
Finding a job that even tickles your interest is hard. Finding leadership that gets it is very difficult. Making it through the screening process to the interview can be almost impossible. But that's just how things are, right?
The environmental problem is neurotypical dominance at every level of life from the top down and the expectations you will held to by default as a direct result of that. The ease with which you are brushed off is a result of the combination of those unfair expectations, their lack of understanding, and the connotation of "disorder." It makes you a problem not worth considering to them.
The desire for freedom from the expectation of working like a robot on a rigid schedule doing something that doesn't interest you in the slightest, is probably universal. Sure.
There are plenty of ADHD folks who are able to outperform neurotypical peers when they have a suitable environment. They typically have quite a few accomodations being made by empathetic leadership to create the mental space they need. In my own case, this meant a near complete disregard for when working hours occur, judgements based on results as opposed to daily stand-ups and reports, and completely bypassing hierarchies of communication to limit people's access to pulling me out of hyperfocus.
Not like overwhelming people with needlessly repetitive information stretched out over long periods of time littered with small talk and nonsense doesn't have value, it's just completely counter to what the ADHD brain needs to work.
The almost complete lack of alternatives which align to your natural cycles and focus states is a social failing to recognize that you are not disordered at all. You just do not have viable options so they slapped disordered on you and make you jump through fees and hoops for accomodations. Because this is America: one size fits all or you're broken.
So here you are, demanding they close your cage and keep you in there. (which is a shitty band-aid you appear to recognize is the best we've got)
Since changing the world in that way (suggested by Izzy) is impossible, it is trolling everyone to suggest that the problem isn't real because if the environment were changed it wouldn't be a problem. It's a hypothetical fantasy and should have been stated as such. It's a shallow excuse to argue to invalidate the experiences of others. An attempt to lessen how seriously this disorder is seen. It is so precisely written and constructed to do this, that it seems quite impossible to have been an accident. Basic composition classes in college struggle to teach people to do this on purpose so clearly and succinctly.
No, genuinely, you're reading it wrong and taking it personally because others already started the downvote train. Yes what they suggest isn't immediately realistic, but it's easily achievable if people actually wanted to do it.
Like are you under the belief that all of our social structures were borne out of the natural order of the universe - entirely immutable and incapable of change?
Is it truly not possible in your mind that we are arbitrarily subjecting ourselves to unnecessary cruelty for the comfort of people who think change can't happen?
They never said the problem isn't real. They said the way society is structured is what make it manifest as a problem because society is not equipped to accommodate you as you deserve. You don't deserve to be treated as a broken individual, you deserve to not have an unjustly difficult life because of something you were born with. Giving it a negative connotation label as a disorder affects the way people (without a clinical understanding of the word) behave toward you. The label is enhancing the harm you face and would be the first step toward altering the public understanding of ADHD.
Yeah, blocking you, too. That's not the start to a good faith conversation.
I understand. I disagree. I refuse to pretend ADHD would be great in some magical land. It would still suck. I would still be tired all the time. I would still have many symptoms that have no upside. I would still want it gone.
Ok troll
Looks like @Skiv must be @Izzy on a second user account.
How's that paranoia going for you?
I have to assume you are trolling at this point. Please go away if you are going to be an asshole. You are completely fabricating nonsense on your own which makes me feel like you are just making fun of people with conditions. This is directly against the rules.