Apple will never do anything for any other reasons besides: regulation and profit. They try and foster this image of humanitarianism and ethics, but meanwhile they build everything in sweatshops and make their own "standards" so that their loyal customers can only use the functions they need by purchasing additional dongles.
I'm happy that they were forced into an actual standard, but I've already heard at least two apple users IRL claiming that USB-C is inferior for [insert random reasoning here]. Apple has cultivated the idea that they are above standards for a long time and it will take a long time to break.
You mean, just like every company that exists?
Apple is a corporation with a market cap that rivals the GDP of France and a net income that rivals the GDP of Qatar. That much capital consolidated within a singular private entity doesn't just make them any other company. Their profit seeking is wildly, wildly different than a vast majority of any other company today.
Get your head out of your ass. ALL companies will never do anything for any other reason besides profit. The size of said company doesn’t matter. A small company will fuck over its customers just as quickly if you let them.
This is just the "both sides of the same" argument with different dressing.
It's as false here as it is there. So you're going to tell me a company like fairphone is as unethical as Apple or Samsung?
Yes of course they work with two completely different yields but that's really the point The only way you can get to that yield is to be unethical so choose smaller brands choose ones that make decisions you agree with and help them grow.
There is no completely ethical capitalism but there definitely are choices that get us somewhere better.
So you're going to tell me a company like fairphone is as unethical as Apple or Samsung?
Absolutely. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism and even fair phone is profit driven. Even NPOs are profit driven. No one works for a loss in western society. No one. So literally every company will do everything it does for the sake of profitability. Even fairphone.
You have to realize that fairphone’s whole model is a marketing gimmick. Does it happen to align with some good values? Sure, but it’s still a gimmick to separate you from your money at the end of the day.
This is just false. Fairphone had audits that prove it's an improvement in both sustainability and worker conditions.
Of course consumerism always negatively impacts the environment but to make it all equivalent is to forsake all nuance. It's not at all to the same magnitude.
I don't believe capitalism is the answer to the world's problems but to not celebrate a positive initiative is throwing the baby out with bath water.
Fairphone had audits that prove it’s an improvement in both sustainability and worker conditions.
key word there is 'improvement'. it's still a for profit company and they will ultimately make whatever decisions are in the best interest of the company to make a profit.
they are undoubtedly better, but their baseline is still the same, to make money.
there is no nuance, at all, to the fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. it's pretty black and white. there are ways to be less unethical (e.g., fairphone), but not to be ethical.
That's just it though. One does more damage than the other unless you alone are single-handedly going to overthrow capitalism within the next week (which you know more power to you) this is still harm reduction and I'm happy for it.
Otherwise you just bitching about best case scenarios and living in a world that exists only in your head
You’re discussing nuance for a company you like when what I being discussed I the baseline problematic nature of commerce.
Is fair phone a better alternative? Yes, and I’ve said as much.
Is it ultimately different from apple in its goal to be profitable? No.
Both things exist and that’s ok.
I don't know if your purposely misunderstanding me or if I'm not explaining myself well but give it one last time and then just agreed to disagree.
Fairphone a company I don't even particularly like uses less rare metals, in factories that ensure better standards of living for the people who work there.
Is it everything I want? No. Does it make a measurable impact? Yes.
Therefore it is not the same. they may be a capitalist company and they could change their motto tomorrow of course any company can choose to do terrible things and may throughout the course of their company's lifetime.
As of right now with the options we have they physically do less harm.
We’re saying the same thing. I’m just emphasizing that they’re still capitalists who will make decisions based on profitability before social impact. It’s inherent because without profitability they can’t exist. Their stated mission (from a quick google) is to be profitable while making a positive impact.
They won’t abandon profitability for impact.
The size, profits, and overall global reach of a company heavily impacts how that company further impacts the world. Do you honestly think that, I don't know, American Girl dolls have had the same negative impact on the world as the East India Company?
Apple fanboys are the most frustrating people to talk to.
They find any illogical reason to justify what apple does.
Go on. What does Apple do that is uniquely Apple that fanbois justify?
Was that a typo, or did you intentionally spell fanboys with an I?
Please, it's pronounced 'fan-bwa'.
Intentionally, because I’m down with the kids, innit?
yea boiiii
You are my example. You see how defensive you got when I criticized apple?
I asked for an example or two. If that’s your best example of frustrating irrationality-pfft. :)
What about having the ability to sideload apps?
So many people are hard against that even though they are not being forced to use it.
I used to be a jailbreaker, so I'm not against sideloading apps. However, I can see how if its not properly designed, sideloading could make it easier to trick people into installing dodgy executables and malware on their phone. It's not just about that sweet 30% cut.
Pot, meet kettle.
The only reason they pass on an image of ethical environmentaly friendly company is because its good for business. People like that shit the products are good people buy. Its that simple. Companies give no shit about people or the planet.
I know. That's my point. A great example of this is when they used to brag about how eco-friendly their product were. I remember them bragging about their displays being mercury-free, BFR free, etc and their laptops having totally recyclable aluminum and glass enclosures - only to later deliberately make their laptops nearly impossible to repair and upgrade.
Apple will never do anything for any other reasons besides: regulation and profit. They try and foster this image of humanitarianism and ethics, but meanwhile they build everything in sweatshops and make their own "standards" so that their loyal customers can only use the functions they need by purchasing additional dongles.
I'm happy that they were forced into an actual standard, but I've already heard at least two apple users IRL claiming that USB-C is inferior for [insert random reasoning here]. Apple has cultivated the idea that they are above standards for a long time and it will take a long time to break.
You mean, just like every company that exists?
Apple is a corporation with a market cap that rivals the GDP of France and a net income that rivals the GDP of Qatar. That much capital consolidated within a singular private entity doesn't just make them any other company. Their profit seeking is wildly, wildly different than a vast majority of any other company today.
Get your head out of your ass. ALL companies will never do anything for any other reason besides profit. The size of said company doesn’t matter. A small company will fuck over its customers just as quickly if you let them.
This is just the "both sides of the same" argument with different dressing.
It's as false here as it is there. So you're going to tell me a company like fairphone is as unethical as Apple or Samsung?
Yes of course they work with two completely different yields but that's really the point The only way you can get to that yield is to be unethical so choose smaller brands choose ones that make decisions you agree with and help them grow.
There is no completely ethical capitalism but there definitely are choices that get us somewhere better.
Absolutely. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism and even fair phone is profit driven. Even NPOs are profit driven. No one works for a loss in western society. No one. So literally every company will do everything it does for the sake of profitability. Even fairphone.
You have to realize that fairphone’s whole model is a marketing gimmick. Does it happen to align with some good values? Sure, but it’s still a gimmick to separate you from your money at the end of the day.
This is just false. Fairphone had audits that prove it's an improvement in both sustainability and worker conditions.
Of course consumerism always negatively impacts the environment but to make it all equivalent is to forsake all nuance. It's not at all to the same magnitude.
I don't believe capitalism is the answer to the world's problems but to not celebrate a positive initiative is throwing the baby out with bath water.
key word there is 'improvement'. it's still a for profit company and they will ultimately make whatever decisions are in the best interest of the company to make a profit.
they are undoubtedly better, but their baseline is still the same, to make money.
there is no nuance, at all, to the fact that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. it's pretty black and white. there are ways to be less unethical (e.g., fairphone), but not to be ethical.
That's just it though. One does more damage than the other unless you alone are single-handedly going to overthrow capitalism within the next week (which you know more power to you) this is still harm reduction and I'm happy for it.
Otherwise you just bitching about best case scenarios and living in a world that exists only in your head
You’re discussing nuance for a company you like when what I being discussed I the baseline problematic nature of commerce.
Is fair phone a better alternative? Yes, and I’ve said as much.
Is it ultimately different from apple in its goal to be profitable? No.
Both things exist and that’s ok.
I don't know if your purposely misunderstanding me or if I'm not explaining myself well but give it one last time and then just agreed to disagree.
Fairphone a company I don't even particularly like uses less rare metals, in factories that ensure better standards of living for the people who work there.
Is it everything I want? No. Does it make a measurable impact? Yes.
Therefore it is not the same. they may be a capitalist company and they could change their motto tomorrow of course any company can choose to do terrible things and may throughout the course of their company's lifetime.
As of right now with the options we have they physically do less harm.
We’re saying the same thing. I’m just emphasizing that they’re still capitalists who will make decisions based on profitability before social impact. It’s inherent because without profitability they can’t exist. Their stated mission (from a quick google) is to be profitable while making a positive impact.
They won’t abandon profitability for impact.
The size, profits, and overall global reach of a company heavily impacts how that company further impacts the world. Do you honestly think that, I don't know, American Girl dolls have had the same negative impact on the world as the East India Company?
Apple fanboys are the most frustrating people to talk to.
They find any illogical reason to justify what apple does.
Go on. What does Apple do that is uniquely Apple that fanbois justify?
Was that a typo, or did you intentionally spell fanboys with an I?
Please, it's pronounced 'fan-bwa'.
Intentionally, because I’m down with the kids, innit?
yea boiiii
You are my example. You see how defensive you got when I criticized apple?
I asked for an example or two. If that’s your best example of frustrating irrationality-pfft. :)
What about having the ability to sideload apps?
So many people are hard against that even though they are not being forced to use it.
I used to be a jailbreaker, so I'm not against sideloading apps. However, I can see how if its not properly designed, sideloading could make it easier to trick people into installing dodgy executables and malware on their phone. It's not just about that sweet 30% cut.
Pot, meet kettle.
The only reason they pass on an image of ethical environmentaly friendly company is because its good for business. People like that shit the products are good people buy. Its that simple. Companies give no shit about people or the planet.
I know. That's my point. A great example of this is when they used to brag about how eco-friendly their product were. I remember them bragging about their displays being mercury-free, BFR free, etc and their laptops having totally recyclable aluminum and glass enclosures - only to later deliberately make their laptops nearly impossible to repair and upgrade.