Advocate for shit that would actually change things.
Enforce our ban on domestic abusers owning firearms. We already passed it, but no one enforces it. It would eliminate a huge chunk of gun violence in the nation, but its not as appealing to the mob as the "assault style" ban.
Or both?
One is favored by both sides of the aisle and has already been passed. There are yet more measures that are favored by a vast majority of the population and have data to support their effectiveness. We should start with the low hanging fruit before we start climbing the tree.
I guess I'd ask you the same question. I don't have a proposal because I don't think any of it will make it through Congress. And if it somehow made it through Congress, the Supreme Court would strike it as unconstitutional.
Short of voting out these members of Congress and balancing the court, there's no hope of reform. So drop the issue to appeal to more voters. Win more elections, balance the court, then you're in a position to effect change.
Also, AWBs are pretty useless. They tend to grandfather in existing weapons and they exclude handguns, which are the weapon used most often to commit murder. Magazine limits, which were in the 1994 law, were the only piece to show a genuine reduction in violent crimes.
I guess my proposal would be to repeal and replace 2a. Probably won't happen until the silent gen and the boomers are gone.
I strongly disagree with you, but I definitely give you credit for at least actually saying it.
Most that I've had this discussion with insist they don't want to touch the second amendment and revoke the rights of law abiding gun owners... then most of their ideas both won't solve gun violence while also stripping millions of people who've never broken a gun law of their rights without due process.
Guns are one issue where I strongly break with the Typical American Left™, but if you're going to be anti-gun, I absolutely give you credit for having the wherewithal to just say what you really want.
Well, I also said "replace." Something that's clearer and won't be misinterpreted like the "well-regulated militia."
Something that's under control like they have in most other developed countries where you can still own a weapon in many instances, but it's much safer and gun-related crime is way down.
I'm just, under no circumstance, willing to accept the massacres of children or other innocent people. And pretending it has nothing to do with the weapons is just disingenuous.
And pretending it has nothing to do with the weapons is just disingenuous.
Your virtue signaling aside, I feel it's disingenuous to pretend it does come down to the weapons.
Americans have owned millions of guns throughout its entire existence. Why all the shootings in the news now?
I guess the guns finally got serious about their mind control plot to wipe out all the humans.
Why all the shootings in the news now?
Mental illness and easy access to weapons is a toxic combination not found in other developed countries. That's why.
I don't think any generation of 3/4 of the states is ratifying that.
Maybe, maybe not.
Some variation on this is the inevitable outcome. It's same story as with say, universal health care. We already know the solution, we just have assholes and people stuck in the past preventing it. At some point, most of them will die off and society moves on.
Universal health care has been on the national stage since Teddy Roosevelt in 1912. Over a century and not much to show for it.
The problem with eventually is that there's no measure of success, since you can never be wrong, it's just not eventually yet.
How many countries have pulled it off? It's laughable to think it is impossible here. Everything I've suggested has already been implemented elsewhere. It's pretty logical to assume it can happen here too.
I assume you've pivoted now to universal healthcare...but I'm not sure. No one said it's impossible, for that matter, no one said gun control is impossible. Just that it won't pass a Republican controlled legislative body, and I assume it would be struck down by the Supreme Court...same as gun control. Change both of those (Congress & Court) and you've got a chance.
The point is that opposition to both is not some permanent feature of the US government. Nor will the SCOTUS always be far right.
You could save so much time if you just turned your account into a bot that replied as follows:
Eventually! Eventually! Eventually!
There comes a point when you become just a white nationalism apologist. As such, you can go fuck yourself.
There comes a point when you become just a white nationalism apologist.
What are you talking about? The fact that I've repeatedly asked you when and how we can effect change under your model, and you've ignored the questions and repeatedly stated that it will eventually happen (as if by magic), that makes me a white nationalist apologist??? Congratulations, I didn't think you could make a more idiotic reply, but you did it! Good for you!
As such, you can go fuck yourself.
Further proof your vapid comments are as empty as your mind.
Again, you are a white nationalism apologist. The problem here is you.
Again, your explanations are as vacant as the space between your ears. You've clearly used multiple words you couldn't even define.
Or you know, actually interpret the way it was written. Most "gun enthusiasts" are not part of a "well regulated militia".
A well stocked library, being necessary and proper for the literacy of a nation, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.
That wouldn't limit the ownership of books to just librarians or people with library cards, it clearly applies to all people.
What if libraries stopped existing because they were completely replaced by something else? Militias stopped existing when we created a standing army. Or, if you want to be charitable, they've evolved into "National Guard" who are often armed. They are also well-regulated, as the amendment requires.
Also, this analogy is shit, you can't take someone's life in a split second, without a thought, with a fucking book. Give me a break.
The American/English language is awesome. We've got these great rules with sentence structure and grammar that makes things super easy once you learn the tricks.
A well regulated Militia**,** being necessary to the security of a free State**,** the right of the people to keep and bear Arms**,** shall not be infringed.
Little English trick for you. Remove the words between the commas and see if the sentence makes sense.
"A well regulated Militia shall not be infringed." - Looks pretty good.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed." - Still looks good and justifies the reason.
"A well regulated Militia, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - Still looking good and provides context as to WHO the Militia is.
We put it all together and get
A well regulated Militia (which is needed for security) (made up of people with guns) is a right granted to the State.
If we add the missing comma to your initial statement before the word 'shall'.
Yes, the way your statement is written it would contain books to libraries and would not EXPLICITY provide such protections (book ownership) to individuals. It does not limit individuals, but it does not grant them special rights either.
If "the founders" had wanted everyone to be able to buy a gun they would not have included the word Militia. They're authorizing States the rights to form their own National Guard. Keep in mind, they are NOT saying the average person cannot have a gun. It is my belief that during these times of 'unrest' that they wanted at least some form of local army to defend against invasion. Folks that get training on weapon use and military tactics.
Also some food for thought, nowhere in the 2A or Constitution is the word "ammunition". So if the government so wished, they could simply make possession of primers illegal.
Read your statement again and now it makes sense why you think what you think. It's the comma you either left off intentionally or conveniently. Commas matter.
Edit: The 2A does not GRANT or DIMINISH an individuals' right to arms as it never addresses the subject. It only GRANTS the right to those members of the Militia.
A well regulated militia shall not be infringed sounds pretty meaningless to me. Can a well regulated militia take my car since they can't be infringed? Can they openly kill anyone not in the militia? Can you not get speeding tickets if you join a militia? Adding being necessary to the security of a free state, does not clarify anything.
The actual subject in the sentence is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." If the Founders wanted it to be only members of a militia, they could have said members, militias, their, or almost anything other than the people.
Just because you do not comprehend the statement, does not make it untrue.
The SUBJECT of that statement is "Militia". The statement self-justifies, then defines, then acts upon it.
Your question response goes on to further expose your misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, this is not an attack on you. If there's any blame to your misunderstanding, it lies in the school system.
The Second Amendment grants members of the Militia, the right to keep their guns in their home. AS noted by another commenter, that would be the National Guard in today's terms. In Founders terms, it was minutemen.
All the 2A does is exempt Militia members from State or Federal Laws if those laws prohibit gun possession. It also exempts them if they require the discharge of that weapon in duty of preserving the Free State. This means if the Chinese military drops a paratrooper over a National Guardsman's home, they are exempt from prosecution for shooting at them.
Here's the best part. If we repealed the second amendment, nothing would change. It never granted an individual rights to begin with so revoking it would not take those rights away.
As ass backwards as your understanding of sentence structure is and as intentionally obtuse an interpretation of the words "the people" as "the militia" instead of as "the people" like every other use of those words in the Bill of Rights, it doesn't matter even if we agree with your assertion
The 2A does not GRANT or DIMINISH an individuals' right to arms as it never addresses the subject. It only GRANTS the right to those members of the Militia.
10 USC: The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
Basically you are saying disarm only women and the elderly. That seems a little discriminatory, but you do you. Broadly speaking here, everyone is part of the militia. The militia is the citizens of the country. And if you want to argue that this doesn't mean the people get to keep their arms when not actively participating in militia action like everyone seems to do when this is pointed out, please see the relevant legislation from the same time period as the 2nd Amendment.
Second Militia Act of 1792: How to be armed and accoutred. provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.
Clear intention that every citizen should arm themselves with military hardware, ammunition, and know how to use it. You didn't use bayonets for hunting, this was "modern military hardware" for the day. This was not authorization to be allowed to arm militias. The US was not even allowed to have a standing army, only a permanent navy was allowed, the armed citizenry was the army as needed. And all this is moot because the premise of the 2nd being only for militia members is, again, faulty.
Sure but we've proven incapable of that. Repeal it and replace it with something that cannot be misinterpreted.
What do you propose? Just accept the massacres?
Advocate for shit that would actually change things.
Enforce our ban on domestic abusers owning firearms. We already passed it, but no one enforces it. It would eliminate a huge chunk of gun violence in the nation, but its not as appealing to the mob as the "assault style" ban.
Or both?
One is favored by both sides of the aisle and has already been passed. There are yet more measures that are favored by a vast majority of the population and have data to support their effectiveness. We should start with the low hanging fruit before we start climbing the tree.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
I guess I'd ask you the same question. I don't have a proposal because I don't think any of it will make it through Congress. And if it somehow made it through Congress, the Supreme Court would strike it as unconstitutional.
Short of voting out these members of Congress and balancing the court, there's no hope of reform. So drop the issue to appeal to more voters. Win more elections, balance the court, then you're in a position to effect change.
Also, AWBs are pretty useless. They tend to grandfather in existing weapons and they exclude handguns, which are the weapon used most often to commit murder. Magazine limits, which were in the 1994 law, were the only piece to show a genuine reduction in violent crimes.
I guess my proposal would be to repeal and replace 2a. Probably won't happen until the silent gen and the boomers are gone.
I strongly disagree with you, but I definitely give you credit for at least actually saying it.
Most that I've had this discussion with insist they don't want to touch the second amendment and revoke the rights of law abiding gun owners... then most of their ideas both won't solve gun violence while also stripping millions of people who've never broken a gun law of their rights without due process.
Guns are one issue where I strongly break with the Typical American Left™, but if you're going to be anti-gun, I absolutely give you credit for having the wherewithal to just say what you really want.
Well, I also said "replace." Something that's clearer and won't be misinterpreted like the "well-regulated militia."
Something that's under control like they have in most other developed countries where you can still own a weapon in many instances, but it's much safer and gun-related crime is way down.
I'm just, under no circumstance, willing to accept the massacres of children or other innocent people. And pretending it has nothing to do with the weapons is just disingenuous.
Your virtue signaling aside, I feel it's disingenuous to pretend it does come down to the weapons.
Americans have owned millions of guns throughout its entire existence. Why all the shootings in the news now?
I guess the guns finally got serious about their mind control plot to wipe out all the humans.
Mental illness and easy access to weapons is a toxic combination not found in other developed countries. That's why.
I don't think any generation of 3/4 of the states is ratifying that.
Maybe, maybe not.
Some variation on this is the inevitable outcome. It's same story as with say, universal health care. We already know the solution, we just have assholes and people stuck in the past preventing it. At some point, most of them will die off and society moves on.
Universal health care has been on the national stage since Teddy Roosevelt in 1912. Over a century and not much to show for it.
The problem with eventually is that there's no measure of success, since you can never be wrong, it's just not eventually yet.
How many countries have pulled it off? It's laughable to think it is impossible here. Everything I've suggested has already been implemented elsewhere. It's pretty logical to assume it can happen here too.
I assume you've pivoted now to universal healthcare...but I'm not sure. No one said it's impossible, for that matter, no one said gun control is impossible. Just that it won't pass a Republican controlled legislative body, and I assume it would be struck down by the Supreme Court...same as gun control. Change both of those (Congress & Court) and you've got a chance.
The point is that opposition to both is not some permanent feature of the US government. Nor will the SCOTUS always be far right.
You could save so much time if you just turned your account into a bot that replied as follows:
There comes a point when you become just a white nationalism apologist. As such, you can go fuck yourself.
What are you talking about? The fact that I've repeatedly asked you when and how we can effect change under your model, and you've ignored the questions and repeatedly stated that it will eventually happen (as if by magic), that makes me a white nationalist apologist??? Congratulations, I didn't think you could make a more idiotic reply, but you did it! Good for you!
Further proof your vapid comments are as empty as your mind.
Again, you are a white nationalism apologist. The problem here is you.
Again, your explanations are as vacant as the space between your ears. You've clearly used multiple words you couldn't even define.
Or you know, actually interpret the way it was written. Most "gun enthusiasts" are not part of a "well regulated militia".
A well stocked library, being necessary and proper for the literacy of a nation, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.
That wouldn't limit the ownership of books to just librarians or people with library cards, it clearly applies to all people.
What if libraries stopped existing because they were completely replaced by something else? Militias stopped existing when we created a standing army. Or, if you want to be charitable, they've evolved into "National Guard" who are often armed. They are also well-regulated, as the amendment requires.
Also, this analogy is shit, you can't take someone's life in a split second, without a thought, with a fucking book. Give me a break.
The American/English language is awesome. We've got these great rules with sentence structure and grammar that makes things super easy once you learn the tricks.
A well regulated Militia**,** being necessary to the security of a free State**,** the right of the people to keep and bear Arms**,** shall not be infringed.
Little English trick for you. Remove the words between the commas and see if the sentence makes sense.
"A well regulated Militia shall not be infringed." - Looks pretty good.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed." - Still looks good and justifies the reason.
"A well regulated Militia, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - Still looking good and provides context as to WHO the Militia is.
We put it all together and get
A well regulated Militia (which is needed for security) (made up of people with guns) is a right granted to the State.
If we add the missing comma to your initial statement before the word 'shall'.
Yes, the way your statement is written it would contain books to libraries and would not EXPLICITY provide such protections (book ownership) to individuals. It does not limit individuals, but it does not grant them special rights either.
If "the founders" had wanted everyone to be able to buy a gun they would not have included the word Militia. They're authorizing States the rights to form their own National Guard. Keep in mind, they are NOT saying the average person cannot have a gun. It is my belief that during these times of 'unrest' that they wanted at least some form of local army to defend against invasion. Folks that get training on weapon use and military tactics.
Also some food for thought, nowhere in the 2A or Constitution is the word "ammunition". So if the government so wished, they could simply make possession of primers illegal.
Read your statement again and now it makes sense why you think what you think. It's the comma you either left off intentionally or conveniently. Commas matter.
Edit: The 2A does not GRANT or DIMINISH an individuals' right to arms as it never addresses the subject. It only GRANTS the right to those members of the Militia.
A well regulated militia shall not be infringed sounds pretty meaningless to me. Can a well regulated militia take my car since they can't be infringed? Can they openly kill anyone not in the militia? Can you not get speeding tickets if you join a militia? Adding being necessary to the security of a free state, does not clarify anything.
The actual subject in the sentence is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms." If the Founders wanted it to be only members of a militia, they could have said members, militias, their, or almost anything other than the people.
Just because you do not comprehend the statement, does not make it untrue.
The SUBJECT of that statement is "Militia". The statement self-justifies, then defines, then acts upon it.
Your question response goes on to further expose your misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, this is not an attack on you. If there's any blame to your misunderstanding, it lies in the school system.
The Second Amendment grants members of the Militia, the right to keep their guns in their home. AS noted by another commenter, that would be the National Guard in today's terms. In Founders terms, it was minutemen.
All the 2A does is exempt Militia members from State or Federal Laws if those laws prohibit gun possession. It also exempts them if they require the discharge of that weapon in duty of preserving the Free State. This means if the Chinese military drops a paratrooper over a National Guardsman's home, they are exempt from prosecution for shooting at them.
Here's the best part. If we repealed the second amendment, nothing would change. It never granted an individual rights to begin with so revoking it would not take those rights away.
As ass backwards as your understanding of sentence structure is and as intentionally obtuse an interpretation of the words "the people" as "the militia" instead of as "the people" like every other use of those words in the Bill of Rights, it doesn't matter even if we agree with your assertion
10 USC: The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
Basically you are saying disarm only women and the elderly. That seems a little discriminatory, but you do you. Broadly speaking here, everyone is part of the militia. The militia is the citizens of the country. And if you want to argue that this doesn't mean the people get to keep their arms when not actively participating in militia action like everyone seems to do when this is pointed out, please see the relevant legislation from the same time period as the 2nd Amendment.
Second Militia Act of 1792: How to be armed and accoutred. provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.
Clear intention that every citizen should arm themselves with military hardware, ammunition, and know how to use it. You didn't use bayonets for hunting, this was "modern military hardware" for the day. This was not authorization to be allowed to arm militias. The US was not even allowed to have a standing army, only a permanent navy was allowed, the armed citizenry was the army as needed. And all this is moot because the premise of the 2nd being only for militia members is, again, faulty.
Sure but we've proven incapable of that. Repeal it and replace it with something that cannot be misinterpreted.