Don't underestimate domestic pro-Israel agents' ability to assassinate a US politician's political career. Lemmy is not the American media, and the latter is still largely supporting Israel's campaign.
Also, I genuinely don't think most Americans care all that much to the degree it would affect their support of Biden.
I'm struggling to think of anyone I know who is so upset about Israel they would consider throwing the country to Trump, and I know a lot of people that have very strong opinions on Israel.
It just doesn't track. If you're against Israel's actions, you're probably also not keen on fascism, racism, and authoritarianism...so logically, you're not keen on letting Trump win.
According to the census, 1.1% of Americans are Muslim and many Muslim leaders are encouraging their base not to vote for Biden. They arenโt voting for Trump either but since Muslims lean heavily democrat, a non vote is the same as voting for Trump in a swing state. It isnโt that they want Trump and authoritarianism, itโs that they are protesting against the US support for Israel.
Well that there is a failure of Muslim leadership.
Hatred is often a self destructive thing. Not voting for Biden increases the probability that Trump will win which will be a very bad thing for Muslims in the US. So they're willing to cause themselves harm over their hatred of Israel.
Maybe it's time people stop listening to leaders that want to sacrifice the people they lead to make themselves look like strong men?
I certainly do not disagree with you. What the Muslim leaders are doing is certainly stupid as Trump will be far worse for their people in the Middle East. I am just relaying the information that is out there about their current agenda.
I think it's too soon to tell really. There's people saying a lot of things out of emotion but emotions tend to fade. It's easy to say you hypothetically won't vote for Biden to exert pressure right now, but when facing the cold hard reality of the potential for a Trump presidency which emotion takes precedence.
Mostly this thing is dependent on Hamas being decisively defeated a few months before the election so people will no longer have the most documented war in history on their screens making them upset.
How the fuck is refusing to support genocide "hatred"?
US foreign policy over multiple decades has hammered home for Muslims that both parties froth at the mouth to murder them and their families. It's only natural that we won't vote for either of those murderers. I know I'll personally be voting for the Green Party, and the only thing that could get me to consider voting for a Democrat ever again would be if the President turned himself, Obama, and George W. bush over to The Hague to stand trial for their murderous wars.
Yea sadly. Even just looking at israel/gaza Trump would do at least as bad as biden and probably worse.
Wow that's some straight up antisemitism right there. Sorry, but there isn't some secret Jewish Cabal controlling the world.
Go outside and touch some grass, ok?
Did you misread end a political career for murder? AIPAC absolutely holds political sway in this country. It is no theory or secret.
Sigh.
Saying there's a strong pro-Israel lobby is not antisemitism.
Sigh.
Promoting conspiracy theories involving Jews being puppet masters that control your government is textbook Goebbels kind of shit.
They weren't claiming that jews are puppet master overlords that control our governments
They were claiming that Israel has a strong political lobby that can do a lot of political damage to politicians that don't align themselves with Israel.
They do this by doing exactly what you're doing. Claiming or implying that anybody against Israel or the pro-Israel lobby is an antisemite.
I'll remind you that "jewish people" and "Israel" are not the same thing.
Iโll remind you that โjewish peopleโ and โIsraelโ are not the same thing.
You need to tell that to the people that are shootiing at synogogues, trying to burn down jewish businesses. There is a Pro-Palestinian movement in my city that are protesting a Jewish community instead of protesting the Israeli consulate that's in this city. Maybe tell them they should be protesting the consulate not the jewish communtiy because they don't seem as enlightened as you are to understand the distinction between Israel and Jews in other countries.
But you aren't going to do that, are you? Could upset your friends in your movement if you criticize their actions.
The Palestinian movement has proven the need for a group to lobby for the well being of Jews in the US. If you won't speak out against the antisemitic activity that's occurring in the Palestinian movement because you're too busy spreading conspiracy theories on the internet, then yeah there needs to be some group that's able to talk about these issues to those in power that are able to protect communities that are in danger from your allies in your movement.
I never said antisemitism doesn't exist. Neither did the person above. Nor did anybody else.
You're bringing that up now as a distraction. Criticising the actions of the regime in Israel, a regime that has openly stated they want to see the eradication of all Palestinians, is not antisemitism.
"My" friends in "my movement"? What are you talking about? I'm not involved in a movement against Jewish people.
If you're referring to me being against the genocide being carried out by Israel, then yes, I'm against that.
But it's not really a "movement", it's the default. I guess with that line of thinking I'm a part of all kinds of "movements" - the "anti-paedophilia movement", the "I don't like kale movement", the "people who think alligators are scary movement", the "people who dislike chores movement", etc.
Hi there. Jewish person here. The people you are accusing of being antisemitic are 100% right. AIPAC has controlled the American political stance on Israel for decades.
If you care about American Jews, stop associating them with Israel. That is what is getting us harassed and attacked, being automatically associated with Israel.
Yeah this is the internet and I can claim that I'm a Palestinian that thinks that Netanyahu is completely in the right. Which proves what exactly?
Also note that racism towards "Cosmopolitan Jews" was a way a certain group used as a gateway for people that weren't willing to be antisemitic towards all Jews. But we know how that ended.
So today it's considered to be good and correct to hate "zionist jews" by those who would normally think antismeitsm is wrong. Meanwhile in my city there's an Israeli consullate, but the protesters don't go there, they protest in the middle of a Jewish community, and have attempted to burn down Jewish businesses. While you're distinguishing between "cosmopolitan zionist jews" and other jews, there are many people in the Palestinian movement who are not.
We need to stop looking the other way about what this is really about. An antisemitic movement that wants to restore the ethnic makeup of a geographic area to the way it was in a history book by the use of extreme violence. "Blood and soil", "from the river to the sea" same shit different century.
I'm not a Jew but my grandfather fought in a war against people that did the same things the Palestinian movement is doing right now. Jews went along with the movement my grandfather fought against too, you know. So the same bullshit from a century ago and how it affected my grandfather means a bit more than your unverifiable claims about being a jew. This ain't about you, this is about fascists trying to burn down Jewish businesses in the city I live in after my grandfather sacrificed a lot to fight against that kind of evil.
Now go on and make excuses for the violent actions of the fascists in your movement like a good useful idiot.
You are welcome to look at my comment history and see how many other times I have talked about being Jewish.
I really don't care. There were Jews that joined the Nazi party. Historically being Jewish hasn't exactly been a prophylactic against being a part of antisemitic movements. You may think you can win over the violent elements in a movement to only hate a subset of Jews so you'll be fine. But when there's a night of the long knives you find out only the opinions of those with the knives really count in these kinds of movements. And they aren't going to care that you were "one of the good ones" when the knives come out.
They already don't seem to care what kind of Jew goes to the synagogues they shoot at.
So first I'm not a Jew and now I'm a Jewish Nazi?
On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
You can be whatever you want to be. Not sure why you're playing the role of useful idiot for an antisemitic movement, but if you want that to be your internet persona, then no one can stop you. Just like no one can stop me from pretending from posting what I want even if I might be a dog in real life. Woof!
Got it, so I'm a Nazi Jew who's a useful antisemite. Fascinating.
???
A lot of people think that how they identify makes them magically immune to propaganda. The reality is thinking you can't be scammed because of who you are makes you more vulnerable to being scammed.
"I'm a good ole country boy, some city slicker can't fool me!" says the guy voting for Trump.
Don't underestimate domestic pro-Israel agents' ability to assassinate a US politician's political career. Lemmy is not the American media, and the latter is still largely supporting Israel's campaign.
Also, I genuinely don't think most Americans care all that much to the degree it would affect their support of Biden.
I'm struggling to think of anyone I know who is so upset about Israel they would consider throwing the country to Trump, and I know a lot of people that have very strong opinions on Israel.
It just doesn't track. If you're against Israel's actions, you're probably also not keen on fascism, racism, and authoritarianism...so logically, you're not keen on letting Trump win.
According to the census, 1.1% of Americans are Muslim and many Muslim leaders are encouraging their base not to vote for Biden. They arenโt voting for Trump either but since Muslims lean heavily democrat, a non vote is the same as voting for Trump in a swing state. It isnโt that they want Trump and authoritarianism, itโs that they are protesting against the US support for Israel.
Source: https://apnews.com/article/muslim-swing-state-biden-vote-fb3b93f465ed6fd34a901c269a084a90
Well that there is a failure of Muslim leadership.
Hatred is often a self destructive thing. Not voting for Biden increases the probability that Trump will win which will be a very bad thing for Muslims in the US. So they're willing to cause themselves harm over their hatred of Israel.
Maybe it's time people stop listening to leaders that want to sacrifice the people they lead to make themselves look like strong men?
I certainly do not disagree with you. What the Muslim leaders are doing is certainly stupid as Trump will be far worse for their people in the Middle East. I am just relaying the information that is out there about their current agenda.
I think it's too soon to tell really. There's people saying a lot of things out of emotion but emotions tend to fade. It's easy to say you hypothetically won't vote for Biden to exert pressure right now, but when facing the cold hard reality of the potential for a Trump presidency which emotion takes precedence.
Mostly this thing is dependent on Hamas being decisively defeated a few months before the election so people will no longer have the most documented war in history on their screens making them upset.
How the fuck is refusing to support genocide "hatred"?
US foreign policy over multiple decades has hammered home for Muslims that both parties froth at the mouth to murder them and their families. It's only natural that we won't vote for either of those murderers. I know I'll personally be voting for the Green Party, and the only thing that could get me to consider voting for a Democrat ever again would be if the President turned himself, Obama, and George W. bush over to The Hague to stand trial for their murderous wars.
Yea sadly. Even just looking at israel/gaza Trump would do at least as bad as biden and probably worse.
Wow that's some straight up antisemitism right there. Sorry, but there isn't some secret Jewish Cabal controlling the world.
Go outside and touch some grass, ok?
Did you misread end a political career for murder? AIPAC absolutely holds political sway in this country. It is no theory or secret.
Sigh.
Saying there's a strong pro-Israel lobby is not antisemitism.
Sigh.
Promoting conspiracy theories involving Jews being puppet masters that control your government is textbook Goebbels kind of shit.
They weren't claiming that jews are puppet master overlords that control our governments
They were claiming that Israel has a strong political lobby that can do a lot of political damage to politicians that don't align themselves with Israel.
They do this by doing exactly what you're doing. Claiming or implying that anybody against Israel or the pro-Israel lobby is an antisemite.
I'll remind you that "jewish people" and "Israel" are not the same thing.
You need to tell that to the people that are shootiing at synogogues, trying to burn down jewish businesses. There is a Pro-Palestinian movement in my city that are protesting a Jewish community instead of protesting the Israeli consulate that's in this city. Maybe tell them they should be protesting the consulate not the jewish communtiy because they don't seem as enlightened as you are to understand the distinction between Israel and Jews in other countries.
But you aren't going to do that, are you? Could upset your friends in your movement if you criticize their actions.
The Palestinian movement has proven the need for a group to lobby for the well being of Jews in the US. If you won't speak out against the antisemitic activity that's occurring in the Palestinian movement because you're too busy spreading conspiracy theories on the internet, then yeah there needs to be some group that's able to talk about these issues to those in power that are able to protect communities that are in danger from your allies in your movement.
I never said antisemitism doesn't exist. Neither did the person above. Nor did anybody else.
You're bringing that up now as a distraction. Criticising the actions of the regime in Israel, a regime that has openly stated they want to see the eradication of all Palestinians, is not antisemitism.
"My" friends in "my movement"? What are you talking about? I'm not involved in a movement against Jewish people.
If you're referring to me being against the genocide being carried out by Israel, then yes, I'm against that.
But it's not really a "movement", it's the default. I guess with that line of thinking I'm a part of all kinds of "movements" - the "anti-paedophilia movement", the "I don't like kale movement", the "people who think alligators are scary movement", the "people who dislike chores movement", etc.
Hi there. Jewish person here. The people you are accusing of being antisemitic are 100% right. AIPAC has controlled the American political stance on Israel for decades.
If you care about American Jews, stop associating them with Israel. That is what is getting us harassed and attacked, being automatically associated with Israel.
Yeah this is the internet and I can claim that I'm a Palestinian that thinks that Netanyahu is completely in the right. Which proves what exactly?
Also note that racism towards "Cosmopolitan Jews" was a way a certain group used as a gateway for people that weren't willing to be antisemitic towards all Jews. But we know how that ended.
So today it's considered to be good and correct to hate "zionist jews" by those who would normally think antismeitsm is wrong. Meanwhile in my city there's an Israeli consullate, but the protesters don't go there, they protest in the middle of a Jewish community, and have attempted to burn down Jewish businesses. While you're distinguishing between "
cosmopolitanzionist jews" and other jews, there are many people in the Palestinian movement who are not.We need to stop looking the other way about what this is really about. An antisemitic movement that wants to restore the ethnic makeup of a geographic area to the way it was in a history book by the use of extreme violence. "Blood and soil", "from the river to the sea" same shit different century.
I'm not a Jew but my grandfather fought in a war against people that did the same things the Palestinian movement is doing right now. Jews went along with the movement my grandfather fought against too, you know. So the same bullshit from a century ago and how it affected my grandfather means a bit more than your unverifiable claims about being a jew. This ain't about you, this is about fascists trying to burn down Jewish businesses in the city I live in after my grandfather sacrificed a lot to fight against that kind of evil.
Now go on and make excuses for the violent actions of the fascists in your movement like a good useful idiot.
You are welcome to look at my comment history and see how many other times I have talked about being Jewish.
I really don't care. There were Jews that joined the Nazi party. Historically being Jewish hasn't exactly been a prophylactic against being a part of antisemitic movements. You may think you can win over the violent elements in a movement to only hate a subset of Jews so you'll be fine. But when there's a night of the long knives you find out only the opinions of those with the knives really count in these kinds of movements. And they aren't going to care that you were "one of the good ones" when the knives come out.
They already don't seem to care what kind of Jew goes to the synagogues they shoot at.
So first I'm not a Jew and now I'm a Jewish Nazi?
On the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
You can be whatever you want to be. Not sure why you're playing the role of useful idiot for an antisemitic movement, but if you want that to be your internet persona, then no one can stop you. Just like no one can stop me from pretending from posting what I want even if I might be a dog in real life. Woof!
Got it, so I'm a Nazi Jew who's a useful antisemite. Fascinating.
???
A lot of people think that how they identify makes them magically immune to propaganda. The reality is thinking you can't be scammed because of who you are makes you more vulnerable to being scammed.
"I'm a good ole country boy, some city slicker can't fool me!" says the guy voting for Trump.
The only sane comment in this entire thead.