If this bill passes and any of you criticizes China/Russia for banning Facebook/Instagram/Twitter etc.. under the name of “lack of freedom of speech”. I will be laughing. A lot.
They should have taken the harder route. Something like requiring all software that uses algorithms to manipulate their users to share their algorithms with an auditing body, or to provide a manipulation-free environment otherwise. Every time a change is made, that change must go through the auditing body. Of course Meta, Apple, Microsoft, Google would have a hissy fit, so such a thing would never fly. Or just ban algorithms that manipulate users.
An outright ban of a particular piece of software sets a terrible precedent in an increasing Orwellian future. They didn't even ban Kaspersky when Russia attacked Ukraine, they just all said, "you probably shouldn't trust this, but keep using it if you want" and that's software that has full access to a computer at a very low level.
I have news for you, China has already banned everything and if any western app exists in China, it must have its servers in China and it only works in "cooperation" in a local chinese company(which has complete or partial ownership of the chinese part of the app). Have you ever heard the Great Firewall of China?
That's basically what the US asked of Tik Tok. They wanted their servers in the US (so they did) and then they wanted them in cooperation with a US company (which they did, Oracle I think it was). And it still wasn't enough. And now everyone is clapping as the US becomes more and more like China.
I hope this doesn't come off as inflammatory, but are you saying we should be more like China?
First of all, i was answering to someone who seemed like a tankie making a bad faith argument.
The fact that Trump is about to get re-elected as president, seems to indicate that information warfare is very effective. Foreign countries can tap in whatever resentment there is, amplify and guide it. And next thing you know, Ukraine no longer exists.
GOP has gone from the party of McCain who warned the US about Putin, and who Obama laughed at and every democrat accused him of having Cold War mentality, to the party of "Yeah, Putin is cool and the US should be more like Russia", in just a couple years.
Personally, i am a very big "fuck it" man, if humans arent capable of making very basic and easy decisions, let Trump get elected and Russia/China do information warfare(while shielding their own population from it). But some people seem to care about the world and they need to decide what they want.
They have to decide whether they want to use authoritarianism to "save" democracy, or risk it all by having a liberal society and hope people can eventually get educated to make informed decision(while information warfare risks bringing the country to a civil war). As i said, decisions have consequences.
They already have. Please spend some time learning about China.
The difference is that in countries that are not dictatorships you have alternatives that don't seek to suck dry every bits of user data for profit and control.
There are services, like tor, proton, tuta, signal, session, blair, matrix, mastodon, wikipedia, and private and secure OS like graphene, calyx etc., seek to keep user data out of their control and respect user choice.
I have yet to see alternatives like these in a dictatorship. If so, I would have much less problem about China's GFW. It is annoying that I have to keep wechat in its own profile, because I have no way to communicate with people in China, or communicate with others outside when I visit China.
That being said, I am not a fan of countries banning services for no good reason, but I don't know if I want to make an exception for instagram and tiktok etc, because they are very much designed to be manipulative.
But I definitely don't think any countries should ban services that are private, essential, and don't impose manipulative algorithms, like signal, session, mastodon, tor, legitimate VPNs, GrapheneOS, etc. including wikileaks.
this exactly. china bans those platforms for the same reasons the us is banning this one. they are the same.
i don't know why everyone in this thread doesn't understand what you're saying. i think its clear
Banning?
Since you didn’t back up your statement, I’ll assign you to the category “Is generally angry and just looks for places to project anger.”
A lot of people on Lemmy are just… old.
This thread made me realize this.
If this bill passes and any of you criticizes China/Russia for banning Facebook/Instagram/Twitter etc.. under the name of “lack of freedom of speech”. I will be laughing. A lot.
They should have taken the harder route. Something like requiring all software that uses algorithms to manipulate their users to share their algorithms with an auditing body, or to provide a manipulation-free environment otherwise. Every time a change is made, that change must go through the auditing body. Of course Meta, Apple, Microsoft, Google would have a hissy fit, so such a thing would never fly. Or just ban algorithms that manipulate users.
An outright ban of a particular piece of software sets a terrible precedent in an increasing Orwellian future. They didn't even ban Kaspersky when Russia attacked Ukraine, they just all said, "you probably shouldn't trust this, but keep using it if you want" and that's software that has full access to a computer at a very low level.
I have news for you, China has already banned everything and if any western app exists in China, it must have its servers in China and it only works in "cooperation" in a local chinese company(which has complete or partial ownership of the chinese part of the app). Have you ever heard the Great Firewall of China?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall
In fact, both facebook/instagram and twitter have been banned from China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Facebook
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Twitter
That's basically what the US asked of Tik Tok. They wanted their servers in the US (so they did) and then they wanted them in cooperation with a US company (which they did, Oracle I think it was). And it still wasn't enough. And now everyone is clapping as the US becomes more and more like China.
I hope this doesn't come off as inflammatory, but are you saying we should be more like China?
First of all, i was answering to someone who seemed like a tankie making a bad faith argument.
The fact that Trump is about to get re-elected as president, seems to indicate that information warfare is very effective. Foreign countries can tap in whatever resentment there is, amplify and guide it. And next thing you know, Ukraine no longer exists.
GOP has gone from the party of McCain who warned the US about Putin, and who Obama laughed at and every democrat accused him of having Cold War mentality, to the party of "Yeah, Putin is cool and the US should be more like Russia", in just a couple years.
Personally, i am a very big "fuck it" man, if humans arent capable of making very basic and easy decisions, let Trump get elected and Russia/China do information warfare(while shielding their own population from it). But some people seem to care about the world and they need to decide what they want.
They have to decide whether they want to use authoritarianism to "save" democracy, or risk it all by having a liberal society and hope people can eventually get educated to make informed decision(while information warfare risks bringing the country to a civil war). As i said, decisions have consequences.
They already have. Please spend some time learning about China.
The difference is that in countries that are not dictatorships you have alternatives that don't seek to suck dry every bits of user data for profit and control.
There are services, like tor, proton, tuta, signal, session, blair, matrix, mastodon, wikipedia, and private and secure OS like graphene, calyx etc., seek to keep user data out of their control and respect user choice.
I have yet to see alternatives like these in a dictatorship. If so, I would have much less problem about China's GFW. It is annoying that I have to keep wechat in its own profile, because I have no way to communicate with people in China, or communicate with others outside when I visit China.
That being said, I am not a fan of countries banning services for no good reason, but I don't know if I want to make an exception for instagram and tiktok etc, because they are very much designed to be manipulative.
But I definitely don't think any countries should ban services that are private, essential, and don't impose manipulative algorithms, like signal, session, mastodon, tor, legitimate VPNs, GrapheneOS, etc. including wikileaks.
this exactly. china bans those platforms for the same reasons the us is banning this one. they are the same.
i don't know why everyone in this thread doesn't understand what you're saying. i think its clear
Banning?
Since you didn’t back up your statement, I’ll assign you to the category “Is generally angry and just looks for places to project anger.”