Isn't that part of the point? If the populace suffers, government changes are more likely
When has that actually worked?
Apartheid south Africa
You're suggesting that the end of Apartheid was caused solely by the US sanctions causing a popular revolt in South africa?
I did not mention it was solely due to sanctions. But I do think it played a role.
Arguably any revolution comes from a critical mass of the population being unhappy..
History shows it's never quite that clear cut. However that's rather irrelevant. I'm asking when have US sanctions sparked a popular revolution that overthrew a government that was sanctioned?
It’s still inhumane. It’s fine to starve people out via sanctions but not via bombings? There’s a reason people like Sanders continue to oppose sanctions
That's the inhumane condition you care about? Not the 34000 dead? Murdering journalists, doctors, food workers? None of that?
Sanctions don’t stop that. So you have a genocide and a starving populace in a second country. JFC when did Lemmy turn into a bunch of neolibs?
Neoliberals are Zionists
Neoliberals love sanctions. Leftists typically oppose suffering.
Israel is a democracy, or so we have been told.
Which means sanctions would motivate the voters to elect a new government that opposes genocide. Which is the result we want.
Therefore, sanctions are justified because they would stop Israel's genocide of Gaza by forcing Israeli voters to face the consequence of voting for genocidal fascists
Why is everyone speaking in hypotheticals/theory? Sanctions have been used in the past. Has it achieved the desired result? If we don't know, maybe start with that
Which would be better to you? You're a civilian somewhere - do you prefer to watch your livelyhood slowly being destroyed by your government or do you want a boom?
I'd assume the former gives you a chance to recognize it and do something, the latter is just boom.
False dichotomy. Sanctions don’t stop genocidal maniacs. They just ADD suffering to the world. Would I rather have 1 million people suffer or 2 million? I know the answer!
You are confirming the validity of Israeli actions against Hamas.
Howso
Think. Seriously.
Assume I can't draw the conclusions you want me to. Please explain it
The Palestinian populace is made to suffer in an attempt to produce a regime change.
Yea, it's unfortunate how ignorant, and intellectually dishonest this conversation is, so far.
When I think of sanctions today, I think of Trump putting sanctions on Venezuela, tons of leftists saying that will disproportionately hurt the people living there, the country's finances going belly up, then thousands of Venezuelan refugees looking for a new home, and then of course the US denying its involvement and refusing to help and acrually choosing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to make the situation worse for literally everyone.
Isn't that part of the point? If the populace suffers, government changes are more likely
When has that actually worked?
Apartheid south Africa
You're suggesting that the end of Apartheid was caused solely by the US sanctions causing a popular revolt in South africa?
I did not mention it was solely due to sanctions. But I do think it played a role.
Arguably any revolution comes from a critical mass of the population being unhappy..
History shows it's never quite that clear cut. However that's rather irrelevant. I'm asking when have US sanctions sparked a popular revolution that overthrew a government that was sanctioned?
It’s still inhumane. It’s fine to starve people out via sanctions but not via bombings? There’s a reason people like Sanders continue to oppose sanctions
That's the inhumane condition you care about? Not the 34000 dead? Murdering journalists, doctors, food workers? None of that?
Sanctions don’t stop that. So you have a genocide and a starving populace in a second country. JFC when did Lemmy turn into a bunch of neolibs?
Neoliberals are Zionists
Neoliberals love sanctions. Leftists typically oppose suffering.
Israel is a democracy, or so we have been told.
Which means sanctions would motivate the voters to elect a new government that opposes genocide. Which is the result we want.
Therefore, sanctions are justified because they would stop Israel's genocide of Gaza by forcing Israeli voters to face the consequence of voting for genocidal fascists
Why is everyone speaking in hypotheticals/theory? Sanctions have been used in the past. Has it achieved the desired result? If we don't know, maybe start with that
Which would be better to you? You're a civilian somewhere - do you prefer to watch your livelyhood slowly being destroyed by your government or do you want a boom?
I'd assume the former gives you a chance to recognize it and do something, the latter is just boom.
False dichotomy. Sanctions don’t stop genocidal maniacs. They just ADD suffering to the world. Would I rather have 1 million people suffer or 2 million? I know the answer!
You are confirming the validity of Israeli actions against Hamas.
Howso
Think. Seriously.
Assume I can't draw the conclusions you want me to. Please explain it
The Palestinian populace is made to suffer in an attempt to produce a regime change.
Yea, it's unfortunate how ignorant, and intellectually dishonest this conversation is, so far.
When I think of sanctions today, I think of Trump putting sanctions on Venezuela, tons of leftists saying that will disproportionately hurt the people living there, the country's finances going belly up, then thousands of Venezuelan refugees looking for a new home, and then of course the US denying its involvement and refusing to help and acrually choosing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to make the situation worse for literally everyone.