Gaming journalists sure want a Sony monopoly of gaming consoles, don't they?
If Xbox didn't exist, consumers could only choose PlayStation. Nintendo has shown they have no interest in making real console hardware to compete with Sony or Microsoft anymore, so consumers will get literally only one console choice. That's bad. Especially since they could set prices at whatever they want and nobody could challenge it.
I get journalists hate Xbox, but Xbox needs to exist as a consumer option.
steam deck exists: "am I a joke to you?"
The Steam Deck is not a console, it is a handheld Linux PC with "console gaming" TV output as an afterthought, just like the Nintendo Switch is a handheld android tablet with console gaming as an afterthought.
K... This is just not true. Plenty of AAA games run well on the steam deck.
Currently installed on mine, RDR2, cyberpunk 2077, horizon zero dawn, Forza horizon, uncharted legacy of thieves, the last of us, and for funsies I just started another fallout 4 playthrough. I'm sure others have lots of other AAA games they play on their deck.
If it's the exclusives you're missing, like Gran Turismo or something, I think that's a different argument.
Being able to play AAA games is not a qualifier for a console. My PC can also play AAA games, but it is not a console.
The Steam Deck, and Switch, are both handhelds. It is a subcategory of game console, but it is not considered a game console just the same as a Game Boy is not considered a console, but it is a handheld. Both the Steam Deck and Switch have a screen and internal battery, along with a controller that is built onto the device, like a Game Boy.
A Steam Machine is a Linux PC, but is more similar to a console than the Steam Deck.
I mean, the nuance you describe is notable. But I sit on the couch, using controllers and play the same games you would on ps or Xbox. Both of which run variants of Linux/windows.
It appears the nuance is no longer important.
I think that's the point bro above is making tho... sure you an use it like one. But it does not compete directly with PS5 and Xbox. Different audience and primary use case is different.
If Xbox dies, steam deck is not a proper substitute for people who buy TV consoles. I guess steam could make steam console tho tbh
Why do you say it isn't a proper substitute? What features is it missing?
it aint ready for mainstream, it still has issues and translation layer aint perfect at all. my gaming rig is on linux. I guess this will be resolved at some point and valve will release a TV console version.
The hardware is not in the same class, in fact it literally under powered because it is a handheld. Guy who wants headshot noobs 4 loolz wants that 4k60 fps experience.
not "features" per se, but consoles have a better performance-to-price ratio compared to handhelds. In the bill of materials for a handheld you're paying for a screen and battery that are unnecessary expenses if you just need a console. in a console, that money will go towards higher powered hardware to run games, and maybe some other ancillary things. Also in a console you can have a better cooling system since you're not constrained to a mobile form factor. Also in a console you can use higher power since performance is not being balanced with batter life.
Most of Nintendo's pre-Switch "consoles" arguably had poor performance-to-price ratios in terms of hardware.
Also, a PC doesn't have the constraints of a mobile form factor and better cooling and can have better performance without the built in battery and screen. You just argued to me that a PC can be a console.
This all seems arbitrary to argue the differences.
if those nintendos had to build in a screen or battery they’d have even worse performance for the price.
yes, PC has some commonalities with consoles, but there are other aspects that make a PC a PC rather than a console.
This is not an arbitrary discussion, it’s a semantic discussion. these terms have non-arbitrary meanings.
Reading through the above comments it seems like goalposts keep moving on what counts as a console. Does the wii u not count as a console because the controller had a screen and the price to performance is poor?
I'm not sure any of you have a concrete definition for a console, and maybe there isn't one. It might be more of a spectrum with open and configurable devices on one end and the more focused devices with walled garden software on the other.
Then you can say that ps5 is more like a console than steam deck is, and steam deck is more like a console than a pc.
Does the wii u not count as a console because the controller had a screen and the price to performance is poor?
The WiiU Gamepad did not function on its own, it had to be connected to the actual console in order to function. It was literally a controller with a screen. It did not have any functionality without the console.
The person I was responding to was citing costs accrued for screen and battery as a reasoning for why steam deck is not a console, so I was giving an example (wii u) that contradicts that reasoning.
I don't actually care if you consider the steam deck or wii u or anything is a console or not. My point was that I don't see a concrete definition anywhere in this thread and that maybe a more nuanced view would be appropriate.
I see. I will try to provide as detailed of a concrete definition as possible for you.
A video game console is an electronic device that is built with the specific purpose of playing video games. It can do other things as well, but its primary function that it is designed around is playing video games. A console does not have a built in screen or control device, but instead those devices are separate and connect to the console in order to give it inputs and for it to output its signal to the user. A video game console does not run a standard computer operating system that one might find on a workstation, but it can run a modified version of a standard operating system that is specifically optimized for the console hardware to play video games more efficiently The console device is to be placed in a permanent location while in operation, and must be plugged into an electrical socket or similar power supply, as it is not powered by an internal battery.
A handheld is a subcategory of video game console that differs by having a screen and controller built into the device. It is not in a permanent location while in operation, rather it is operated while held in the users hands. These have a battery to provide power to the unit.
i would say the wiiu is a special case console. they tried adding a screen to a typical console design and it didn’t really work. that’s why they pivoted to the switch which is much more like a portable than a console.
the vast, vast majority of consoles don’t have screens built into their controllers.
While you can do that with a Steam Deck or Nintendo Switch, that was not their primary design. Its no different than plugging in a laptop to a TV with a wireless controller and gaming on that. That is not a console, it was not designed as such.
Additionally, the quality of gaming experience you get from a Switch is worse than on Steam Deck for intensive games, even for native Switch games sometimes. But the quality of games on the Steam Deck is worse than a purpose built game console like the Xbox Series X or PS5. Keep in mind the Steam Deck is 2 years newer than the Xbox Series X or PS5. While the experience may be comparable on some less intensive games, the console experience is objectively better.
Steam Deck and Nintendo Switch are not competition to Xbox or PlayStation. Valve and Nintendo don't view them as such, and neither do consumers.
Gaming journalists and consumers alike want Xbox to be better. Did you even bother to read the article?
Gaming journalists sure want a Sony monopoly of gaming consoles, don’t they?
Despite the inflammatory headline, I don't think that's really the point of the article. It's much less "why even bother", and more "do they even know what they're doing over there"?
Any hatred the writer has for Xbox seems to be focused on how Microsoft are running things, not letting the studios take chances or even make a bit of a dud game.
As a platform, the point of Xbox is supposed to be to make things people enjoy. But MS seem hyper-focused on insane rates of growth, more users, more subscribers, bigger profits. Anything that doesn't fit that gets cut, regardless of how well it was received by fans or critics.
I don't get the impression the writer hates Xbox, but is just frustrated that they've been making the same mistake over and over again, which has allowed Sony to dominate the console space.
Nintendo has shown they have no interest in making real console hardware
Ah yes, the no true Scotsman argument.
Nintendo doesn't make hardware to compete with Sony and Microsoft, despite having the best selling console hardware all-time, among the current generation, and among several previous generations.
You don't have to be a graphical powerhouse to compete with PlayStation and Xbox...
Nintendo is not competing with Microsoft or Sony, and that's why they can sell more.
People arent choosing between Xbox, PlayStation, or Switch. Theyre choosing between Xbox or PlayStation, and also buying a Switch. That is not competition.
I don't think anybody wants a monopoly, because it means the leader can stagnate, and honestly that's already happened. Sony are getting complacent, the big releases are few and far between. We're all getting less for our money, no matter what team you're on.
I often buy multiple consoles in a generation, but I didn't get the Xbox One or Xbox Series consoles, because there's no reason to, and it's not because I've got an expensive PC either, still being on a 1060. Being late to the game is fine, PS3 did that and ended up selling pretty much as many as the Xbox 360 in the end, but where is that spark from MS? They've gambled it all on Game Pass and I'm not sure you can run an entire gaming division on that, same as Netflix couldn't compete with Hollywood without the box office money. The cloud growth just hasn't happened for them. It doesn't feel as good as local play, and I suspect it never will. A PS5 has hit pricing that isn't really that expensive for fairly casual gamers, although the most casual went mobile ages ago and I doubt they're coming back.
Xbox hardware is fine, there just isn't any reason to own it. If it ran Windows and I could install my Steam library on it, I'd have got it on day one, but how does that make MS money? There's even been noises about the next Xbox allowing Steam, although I don't know how true that it is. I would guess the only way that can happen is if MS get a chunk of Valve's money every time somebody buys a game through Steam for Xbox. It's the only real feature that would get me to buy one right now.
I get journalists hate Xbox, but Xbox needs to exist as a consumer option.
I don't understand, is this a thing? "All journalists hate Xbox" I mean. I've never heard this before. Like there's a mandate that journalists have to hate the Xbox?
EDIT: I'll eat the downvotes, I just want to understand what the fuck they're talking about
Nah, it's an obviously false take, because as you say, why would all journalists agree on this?
XBOX has been underwhelming for a while and journalists will report on that, and they will focus on those bad parts and certainly also sometimes make it sound worse than it really is, because it brings in clicks.
That can make it look like journalists dislike XBOX, but causality is simply the other way around.
Yeah the comment felt like bizarre astroturfing -- Why would 'gaming journalists' specifically not want Xbox to succeed, but want Playstation to? Like somehow a Sony monopoly is great for... journalists? A very strange take.
XBOX has been underwhelming for a while and journalists will report on that, and they will focus on those bad parts and certainly also sometimes make it sound worse than it really is, because it brings in clicks.
I worked at Microsoft and I can assure you, they deserve every bit of hate they get. And it really is that bad. There was a point with the Xbox One where Sony was beating 'us' in every single market we were actively tracking except specific parts of the US. Yet we had directive after directive for clearly nonsensical ideas like targeting Japan for console sales.
I also worked (third party) with Sony and they aren't much better, but they at least understand how to get their consoles bought. Microsoft hasn't known how to do that since the 360.
Gaming journalists sure want a Sony monopoly of gaming consoles, don't they?
If Xbox didn't exist, consumers could only choose PlayStation. Nintendo has shown they have no interest in making real console hardware to compete with Sony or Microsoft anymore, so consumers will get literally only one console choice. That's bad. Especially since they could set prices at whatever they want and nobody could challenge it.
I get journalists hate Xbox, but Xbox needs to exist as a consumer option.
steam deck exists: "am I a joke to you?"
The Steam Deck is not a console, it is a handheld Linux PC with "console gaming" TV output as an afterthought, just like the Nintendo Switch is a handheld android tablet with console gaming as an afterthought.
K... This is just not true. Plenty of AAA games run well on the steam deck. Currently installed on mine, RDR2, cyberpunk 2077, horizon zero dawn, Forza horizon, uncharted legacy of thieves, the last of us, and for funsies I just started another fallout 4 playthrough. I'm sure others have lots of other AAA games they play on their deck.
If it's the exclusives you're missing, like Gran Turismo or something, I think that's a different argument.
Being able to play AAA games is not a qualifier for a console. My PC can also play AAA games, but it is not a console.
The Steam Deck, and Switch, are both handhelds. It is a subcategory of game console, but it is not considered a game console just the same as a Game Boy is not considered a console, but it is a handheld. Both the Steam Deck and Switch have a screen and internal battery, along with a controller that is built onto the device, like a Game Boy.
A Steam Machine is a Linux PC, but is more similar to a console than the Steam Deck.
I mean, the nuance you describe is notable. But I sit on the couch, using controllers and play the same games you would on ps or Xbox. Both of which run variants of Linux/windows.
It appears the nuance is no longer important.
I think that's the point bro above is making tho... sure you an use it like one. But it does not compete directly with PS5 and Xbox. Different audience and primary use case is different.
If Xbox dies, steam deck is not a proper substitute for people who buy TV consoles. I guess steam could make steam console tho tbh
Why do you say it isn't a proper substitute? What features is it missing?
not "features" per se, but consoles have a better performance-to-price ratio compared to handhelds. In the bill of materials for a handheld you're paying for a screen and battery that are unnecessary expenses if you just need a console. in a console, that money will go towards higher powered hardware to run games, and maybe some other ancillary things. Also in a console you can have a better cooling system since you're not constrained to a mobile form factor. Also in a console you can use higher power since performance is not being balanced with batter life.
Most of Nintendo's pre-Switch "consoles" arguably had poor performance-to-price ratios in terms of hardware.
Also, a PC doesn't have the constraints of a mobile form factor and better cooling and can have better performance without the built in battery and screen. You just argued to me that a PC can be a console.
This all seems arbitrary to argue the differences.
if those nintendos had to build in a screen or battery they’d have even worse performance for the price.
yes, PC has some commonalities with consoles, but there are other aspects that make a PC a PC rather than a console.
This is not an arbitrary discussion, it’s a semantic discussion. these terms have non-arbitrary meanings.
Reading through the above comments it seems like goalposts keep moving on what counts as a console. Does the wii u not count as a console because the controller had a screen and the price to performance is poor?
I'm not sure any of you have a concrete definition for a console, and maybe there isn't one. It might be more of a spectrum with open and configurable devices on one end and the more focused devices with walled garden software on the other.
Then you can say that ps5 is more like a console than steam deck is, and steam deck is more like a console than a pc.
The WiiU Gamepad did not function on its own, it had to be connected to the actual console in order to function. It was literally a controller with a screen. It did not have any functionality without the console.
The person I was responding to was citing costs accrued for screen and battery as a reasoning for why steam deck is not a console, so I was giving an example (wii u) that contradicts that reasoning.
I don't actually care if you consider the steam deck or wii u or anything is a console or not. My point was that I don't see a concrete definition anywhere in this thread and that maybe a more nuanced view would be appropriate.
I see. I will try to provide as detailed of a concrete definition as possible for you.
A video game console is an electronic device that is built with the specific purpose of playing video games. It can do other things as well, but its primary function that it is designed around is playing video games. A console does not have a built in screen or control device, but instead those devices are separate and connect to the console in order to give it inputs and for it to output its signal to the user. A video game console does not run a standard computer operating system that one might find on a workstation, but it can run a modified version of a standard operating system that is specifically optimized for the console hardware to play video games more efficiently The console device is to be placed in a permanent location while in operation, and must be plugged into an electrical socket or similar power supply, as it is not powered by an internal battery.
A handheld is a subcategory of video game console that differs by having a screen and controller built into the device. It is not in a permanent location while in operation, rather it is operated while held in the users hands. These have a battery to provide power to the unit.
No, i was answering your question “what features is steam deck missing compared to consoles”.
i would say the wiiu is a special case console. they tried adding a screen to a typical console design and it didn’t really work. that’s why they pivoted to the switch which is much more like a portable than a console.
the vast, vast majority of consoles don’t have screens built into their controllers.
While you can do that with a Steam Deck or Nintendo Switch, that was not their primary design. Its no different than plugging in a laptop to a TV with a wireless controller and gaming on that. That is not a console, it was not designed as such.
Additionally, the quality of gaming experience you get from a Switch is worse than on Steam Deck for intensive games, even for native Switch games sometimes. But the quality of games on the Steam Deck is worse than a purpose built game console like the Xbox Series X or PS5. Keep in mind the Steam Deck is 2 years newer than the Xbox Series X or PS5. While the experience may be comparable on some less intensive games, the console experience is objectively better.
Steam Deck and Nintendo Switch are not competition to Xbox or PlayStation. Valve and Nintendo don't view them as such, and neither do consumers.
Gaming journalists and consumers alike want Xbox to be better. Did you even bother to read the article?
Despite the inflammatory headline, I don't think that's really the point of the article. It's much less "why even bother", and more "do they even know what they're doing over there"?
Any hatred the writer has for Xbox seems to be focused on how Microsoft are running things, not letting the studios take chances or even make a bit of a dud game.
As a platform, the point of Xbox is supposed to be to make things people enjoy. But MS seem hyper-focused on insane rates of growth, more users, more subscribers, bigger profits. Anything that doesn't fit that gets cut, regardless of how well it was received by fans or critics.
I don't get the impression the writer hates Xbox, but is just frustrated that they've been making the same mistake over and over again, which has allowed Sony to dominate the console space.
Ah yes, the no true Scotsman argument.
Nintendo doesn't make hardware to compete with Sony and Microsoft, despite having the best selling console hardware all-time, among the current generation, and among several previous generations.
You don't have to be a graphical powerhouse to compete with PlayStation and Xbox...
Nintendo is not competing with Microsoft or Sony, and that's why they can sell more.
People arent choosing between Xbox, PlayStation, or Switch. Theyre choosing between Xbox or PlayStation, and also buying a Switch. That is not competition.
I don't think anybody wants a monopoly, because it means the leader can stagnate, and honestly that's already happened. Sony are getting complacent, the big releases are few and far between. We're all getting less for our money, no matter what team you're on.
I often buy multiple consoles in a generation, but I didn't get the Xbox One or Xbox Series consoles, because there's no reason to, and it's not because I've got an expensive PC either, still being on a 1060. Being late to the game is fine, PS3 did that and ended up selling pretty much as many as the Xbox 360 in the end, but where is that spark from MS? They've gambled it all on Game Pass and I'm not sure you can run an entire gaming division on that, same as Netflix couldn't compete with Hollywood without the box office money. The cloud growth just hasn't happened for them. It doesn't feel as good as local play, and I suspect it never will. A PS5 has hit pricing that isn't really that expensive for fairly casual gamers, although the most casual went mobile ages ago and I doubt they're coming back.
Xbox hardware is fine, there just isn't any reason to own it. If it ran Windows and I could install my Steam library on it, I'd have got it on day one, but how does that make MS money? There's even been noises about the next Xbox allowing Steam, although I don't know how true that it is. I would guess the only way that can happen is if MS get a chunk of Valve's money every time somebody buys a game through Steam for Xbox. It's the only real feature that would get me to buy one right now.
I don't understand, is this a thing? "All journalists hate Xbox" I mean. I've never heard this before. Like there's a mandate that journalists have to hate the Xbox?
EDIT: I'll eat the downvotes, I just want to understand what the fuck they're talking about
Nah, it's an obviously false take, because as you say, why would all journalists agree on this?
XBOX has been underwhelming for a while and journalists will report on that, and they will focus on those bad parts and certainly also sometimes make it sound worse than it really is, because it brings in clicks.
That can make it look like journalists dislike XBOX, but causality is simply the other way around.
Yeah the comment felt like bizarre astroturfing -- Why would 'gaming journalists' specifically not want Xbox to succeed, but want Playstation to? Like somehow a Sony monopoly is great for... journalists? A very strange take.
I worked at Microsoft and I can assure you, they deserve every bit of hate they get. And it really is that bad. There was a point with the Xbox One where Sony was beating 'us' in every single market we were actively tracking except specific parts of the US. Yet we had directive after directive for clearly nonsensical ideas like targeting Japan for console sales.
I also worked (third party) with Sony and they aren't much better, but they at least understand how to get their consoles bought. Microsoft hasn't known how to do that since the 360.