You have to recognize how absurdly fucked this logic is, right? "You have to vote for the guy currently in office who is actively supporting and supplying genocide or else you support genocide."
I'm not saying don't vote, but I am saying that if you want to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you then you need to find a different tactic.
This. I cannot morally support any of them, I’m left without a choice but to be berated by the “lesser evil” crowd. I can’t support evil anymore, I have no love for this broken shithole country and would leave in an instant were I not trapped here.
So your options are work to make it better or give up. You've chosen give up.
Yes
Then stop bothering the rest of us who are trying to make things better. Your whining from the peanut gallery is annoying. You aren't going to get any sympathy for your bitching here.
I mean, I already have, this isn’t the echo chamber you think it is, and it makes me feel better so if my whining is causing you pains, feel free to ignore or block me.
My assumption is that you are white, middle class and cishet male. Because you can apparently afford to give up.
my sincere apologies for what I am causing you.
my sincere apologies for what I am causing you.
Do you seriously not understand the implications of a Trump presidency for women, queer folk, transgender folk and minorities? The environment? Years of at least some progress on progressive policies? The minimum wage? Social Security? Democracy itself?
We don't even have to speculate - they've literally told us what they are going to do.
this same argument has been made in every election of my life. I agree, and I'm sorry this this stupid country has it out for all minorities but I no longer have faith that scribbling in a little circle every 4 years is the medicine we need.
Years of at least some progress on progressive policies? The minimum wage? Social Security? Democracy itself?
update- minimum wage is lower, adjusted for inflation, than it was when I was a kid. I do not believe that I will receive any of the social security I've paid in and the age for it has been increased. I do not believe this democracy functions anymore.
the night turnip was elected was the final nail in the coffin for us. everything since has been death throws of a nation.
this same argument has been made in every election of my life. I agree, and I’m sorry this this stupid country has it out for all minorities but I no longer have faith that scribbling in a little circle every 4 years is the medicine we need.
Once again. I'm glad you have the luxury of having this attitude. Because clearly the progress we've made doesn't in any way affect you. Congrats.
But the examples you gave me are the opposite of progress. Look, I’m glad you still have fight left in you, you’re gonna need it for a long time.
But the examples you gave me are the opposite of progress
Your ignorance seems to know no bounds. But I hope you have a nice weekend.
Friend, arguments like yours are the exact reason I’m done with the political bullshit. I am having a marvelous weekend, volunteering with children in the woods. This is what I’m doing to make things better, local things that make a difference.
Go pat yourself on the back real hard for that vote of yours, you’ve single handedly saved us all.
If Trump gets elected and people like me are hunted down as devients, nobody can get safe abortions and thousands of transgender kids are denied the care they need... oh, and we end up at war with China while Israel does whatever it wants and the Ukraine is wiped off the map... I'll be sure to congratulate you on your "making a difference".
Do you want the best possible outcome for gazans? Then vote for Biden. It really is that simple.
You can simultaneously acknowledge that having Biden in the white house is the best outcome for gazans amongst possible alternatives, and that you find Biden's position unconsciable.
If you fail to take action, the plight of gazans will be worse, amongst many other disasters as yet unknown.
You realise conservatives don't want you to vote?
You are telling me the same things I’ve been told my entire life. Do the dead gazans at the hands of American bombs think I should vote for Biden?
I keep hearing how much worse the world will be if I don’t choke on a Biden vote, but from my perspective it’s pretty shitty already. I’ve voted for the least evil in every election, only for us to arrive here.
Do the dead gazans at the hands of American bombs think I should vote for Biden?
Of course they would, because they know trump would actively grind their surviving families to dust.
I’ve voted for the least evil in every election, only for us to arrive here.
Yes but I'm sure you realise that's not causative. We're not in this situation because you voted progressive in every election. We're in this situation because too many of your countrymen became apathetic and didn't vote because "both sides are just as bad".
I certainly never said it’s causative, but it doesn’t make any real difference in terms of the way that this country is going.
I don't follow.
If everyone voted and the dems had a very clear majority that would make a very real difference in terms of the way the country is going.
If progressives like your good self withhold their vote in protest, the best we will get is the dems just barely getting up - the shitty status quo we have presently.
We’ve been told that all our lives, but look at the current dems, they aren’t going to fix anything. I’ve hired people, if I had these three resumes in front of me, my conclusion is that they all will make things worse, so I would not hire any of them. Call it a protest non-vote if it makes you feel any better but incrementalism means nothing when we’ve all pulled that least evil lever in hopes for improvement while the world burns, while we participate in another mass killing, when my children need to have the same fights that I, and my parents, and grandparents have been fighting.
I think the system is broken, the ship is going down so I truly no longer care who captains it, I’m busy looking for a liferaft.
You have a habit of speaking in metaphors, but none are really analogous.
if I had these three resumes in front of me, my conclusion is that they all will make things worse, so I would not hire any of them
If you don't choose the best, someone else is going to hire the worst on your behalf and you'll be stuck with them.
the ship is going down so I truly no longer care who captains it, I’m busy looking for a liferaft
Voting will not distract you from looking for a life-raft, the right captain will not murder the other passengers, and there's no life-raft anyway.
We’ve been told that all our lives,
Not evidence that its not true.
look at the current dems, they aren’t going to fix anything.
Precisely because they don't have enough votes to fix anything, because voters are lost to this "both sides are just as bad" narrative from the conservatives.
Again, I’ve heard and made all these same arguments. I’ve been told for decades that we just need to vote harder. I do realize that if we had an overwhelming election that things may change but when we look at who’s currently running, the fact that we’re putting up a guy who’s doing everything possible to create his own Vietnam for reasons I simply cannot fathom, tells me that those in power really give zero shits.
If there was some reason to be inspired or believe that my vote will make things better, then sign me up. But I’ve done it for ages and my voice of rationality has always been drowned out by the shallowest thinkers on the planet. I have no faith left that it will ever be different.
You keep saying you've heard my arguments before, but don't seem able to directly rebut them?
Just because you've been told something many times does not make it untrue.
Voting for the best option even though it's not perfect, is not how we ended up here.
We ended up here because people don't vote. As I've said many times (and you haven't responded) conservatives don't want you to vote. They want you feeling despondent and defeated and apathetic as you do.
You don't need to "vote harder", you just need to vote.
A democracy with only two options is a dictatorship of the winner. Your political influence isn't limited to voting though, voting is the first action in a democracy, not the last.
You have to recognize how absurdly fucked this logic is, right? "You have to vote for the guy currently in office who is actively supporting and supplying genocide or else you support genocide."
I'm not saying don't vote, but I am saying that if you want to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you then you need to find a different tactic.
This. I cannot morally support any of them, I’m left without a choice but to be berated by the “lesser evil” crowd. I can’t support evil anymore, I have no love for this broken shithole country and would leave in an instant were I not trapped here.
So your options are work to make it better or give up. You've chosen give up.
Yes
Then stop bothering the rest of us who are trying to make things better. Your whining from the peanut gallery is annoying. You aren't going to get any sympathy for your bitching here.
I mean, I already have, this isn’t the echo chamber you think it is, and it makes me feel better so if my whining is causing you pains, feel free to ignore or block me.
My assumption is that you are white, middle class and cishet male. Because you can apparently afford to give up.
my sincere apologies for what I am causing you.
Do you seriously not understand the implications of a Trump presidency for women, queer folk, transgender folk and minorities? The environment? Years of at least some progress on progressive policies? The minimum wage? Social Security? Democracy itself?
We don't even have to speculate - they've literally told us what they are going to do.
this same argument has been made in every election of my life. I agree, and I'm sorry this this stupid country has it out for all minorities but I no longer have faith that scribbling in a little circle every 4 years is the medicine we need.
update- minimum wage is lower, adjusted for inflation, than it was when I was a kid. I do not believe that I will receive any of the social security I've paid in and the age for it has been increased. I do not believe this democracy functions anymore.
the night turnip was elected was the final nail in the coffin for us. everything since has been death throws of a nation.
Once again. I'm glad you have the luxury of having this attitude. Because clearly the progress we've made doesn't in any way affect you. Congrats.
But the examples you gave me are the opposite of progress. Look, I’m glad you still have fight left in you, you’re gonna need it for a long time.
Your ignorance seems to know no bounds. But I hope you have a nice weekend.
Friend, arguments like yours are the exact reason I’m done with the political bullshit. I am having a marvelous weekend, volunteering with children in the woods. This is what I’m doing to make things better, local things that make a difference.
Go pat yourself on the back real hard for that vote of yours, you’ve single handedly saved us all.
If Trump gets elected and people like me are hunted down as devients, nobody can get safe abortions and thousands of transgender kids are denied the care they need... oh, and we end up at war with China while Israel does whatever it wants and the Ukraine is wiped off the map... I'll be sure to congratulate you on your "making a difference".
Do you want the best possible outcome for gazans? Then vote for Biden. It really is that simple.
You can simultaneously acknowledge that having Biden in the white house is the best outcome for gazans amongst possible alternatives, and that you find Biden's position unconsciable.
If you fail to take action, the plight of gazans will be worse, amongst many other disasters as yet unknown.
You realise conservatives don't want you to vote?
You are telling me the same things I’ve been told my entire life. Do the dead gazans at the hands of American bombs think I should vote for Biden?
I keep hearing how much worse the world will be if I don’t choke on a Biden vote, but from my perspective it’s pretty shitty already. I’ve voted for the least evil in every election, only for us to arrive here.
Of course they would, because they know trump would actively grind their surviving families to dust.
Yes but I'm sure you realise that's not causative. We're not in this situation because you voted progressive in every election. We're in this situation because too many of your countrymen became apathetic and didn't vote because "both sides are just as bad".
I certainly never said it’s causative, but it doesn’t make any real difference in terms of the way that this country is going.
I don't follow.
If everyone voted and the dems had a very clear majority that would make a very real difference in terms of the way the country is going.
If progressives like your good self withhold their vote in protest, the best we will get is the dems just barely getting up - the shitty status quo we have presently.
We’ve been told that all our lives, but look at the current dems, they aren’t going to fix anything. I’ve hired people, if I had these three resumes in front of me, my conclusion is that they all will make things worse, so I would not hire any of them. Call it a protest non-vote if it makes you feel any better but incrementalism means nothing when we’ve all pulled that least evil lever in hopes for improvement while the world burns, while we participate in another mass killing, when my children need to have the same fights that I, and my parents, and grandparents have been fighting.
I think the system is broken, the ship is going down so I truly no longer care who captains it, I’m busy looking for a liferaft.
You have a habit of speaking in metaphors, but none are really analogous.
If you don't choose the best, someone else is going to hire the worst on your behalf and you'll be stuck with them.
Voting will not distract you from looking for a life-raft, the right captain will not murder the other passengers, and there's no life-raft anyway.
Not evidence that its not true.
Precisely because they don't have enough votes to fix anything, because voters are lost to this "both sides are just as bad" narrative from the conservatives.
Again, I’ve heard and made all these same arguments. I’ve been told for decades that we just need to vote harder. I do realize that if we had an overwhelming election that things may change but when we look at who’s currently running, the fact that we’re putting up a guy who’s doing everything possible to create his own Vietnam for reasons I simply cannot fathom, tells me that those in power really give zero shits.
If there was some reason to be inspired or believe that my vote will make things better, then sign me up. But I’ve done it for ages and my voice of rationality has always been drowned out by the shallowest thinkers on the planet. I have no faith left that it will ever be different.
You keep saying you've heard my arguments before, but don't seem able to directly rebut them?
Just because you've been told something many times does not make it untrue.
Voting for the best option even though it's not perfect, is not how we ended up here.
We ended up here because people don't vote. As I've said many times (and you haven't responded) conservatives don't want you to vote. They want you feeling despondent and defeated and apathetic as you do.
You don't need to "vote harder", you just need to vote.
A democracy with only two options is a dictatorship of the winner. Your political influence isn't limited to voting though, voting is the first action in a democracy, not the last.
Completely agreed.