Losing your virginity, sex and reproduction for what I've seen. Monetary back up (not always and slightly more beneficial for women).
The need to put up with other people's shit. Sacrifice your "me" time. Meeting people you don't care about. Being related by proxy to people you don't care about it. Giving up your freedom. Being manipulated in certain way just because otherwise you won't have sex. Discussions, discussions discussions. If married, high probability of divorce.
Very incel way of looking at relationship.
For real. Sex is great, sure. What I want for all of the parts of the relationship that aren't having sex is mostly just someone I really like hanging out with
That's you though.
I don't hate women. So no. I hate how that term is thrown if people don't wanna accept your way of living.
Incel doesn't exactly only mean hating woman, incel is basically why you're still single, then you blame it on everything else other than you, hating woman are just a part of it. If someone doesn't want to accept your way of living, then find someone else.
I'm not blaming anything. I'm well aware what an average semi attractive woman wants from a man. I will never be those things. That's not me, I never cared about being those things.
I will never be those things.
Before I was in a relationship, I was 100% wrong about what "those things" actually are, for what that's worth.
You're a minority, women want most of the time chatting and socially active strong men able to carry a conversation, manly enough to create a home and have a decent amount of money but delicate enough to be romantic. I can't do any of those things. Admit it, that's the majority of women.
So, have you been in past relationships where you learned this or from some sort of observation (going on dates for example)?
I've never been in a relationship. I know this by proxy, average, heard things, data. You don't need to be in a relationship to notice these things dude. Again, if the requirements for a relationship would be as low as the other dude says they were, then people like me wouldn't exist.
So is your relationship abstinence due to striking out because your personality or idea of relationships doesn’t fit the norm and you can’t find a suitable partner, or has your perception of relationships kept you from pursuing relationships entirely?
You basically asked the same thing again. I'm not a good candidate, I don't have a job and when I had one was low income, I'm not social at all, i hate going out to do fun stuff, I don't want to engage or entangle with "her family", I don't drive or own a car, I don't have my own place, I'm not physically strong or good looking and I don't care about being it. I'm not charming or romantic and hate conversations. Would you date me if I you were a girl? No right? That's my point.
I didn’t ask the same question, and you avoided answering mine which was: have you tried or have you just considered yourself a failure?
I became friends with a guy like you, and I had money so I took him places and paid for things because we had fun together. Your situation isn’t hopeless, but your attitude is. Yes, if you want to have a relationship, you do have to be personable because that’s the only way someone would want to hang out with you. You listed all the negative things about your situation but nothing about your hobbies, what you like to do. Okay, you don’t like to “go out and have fun” but do you like to stay in and have fun? My friend and I often played video games together, is that an option?
There are detriments on your list that sound negative not only to a potential partner, but to you. Do you want to have a job? Do you want to have your own place? If so, what’s stopping you? I know you were reading that ex-incel post, so you know many people started by focusing on what they wanted to improve in their lives and forgetting about relationships. You are in a negative place, and I will bet that it’s not just about relationships but about yourself.
Btw, my friend is in a poly relationship now, got his GED, moved to his own place, went to trade school, and works at a news station. The most important thing is he is more confident, comfortable with himself as he is, and happy. It’s not impossible, but you do have to do the work.
You’ll probably have an angry response to this, but I don’t want anyone to think they are a lost cause because that’s what their brain is saying and how society makes them feel, so I just wanted to say something.
Edit: Just to answer your question: I can not say if I would want to date you because I don’t know you. All you talked about was your life situation, not your personality: likes, hobbies, tastes in music, etc. Being compatible in those things would help me determine that.
Angry? I'm just saying the truth. I like videogames but that's hardly anything majority of women like, majority haven't even playing anything in their lives. And honestly no, I don't want to "improve" or change myself into being another person. I dunno what ged is, I'm guessing it's studies, I had only make it up to middle school. You think I'm a failure, I don't care.
You didn't said anything. Again if what you had said was the truth then I wouldn't be single.
This is exactly what people are referring to when they say you sound like an incel, fyi
Again. Incorrect
Doubt it. Every single person who's seen you talk in this thread has agreed. That should be your trigger to say "I wonder why that is". Or ignore the outside world, but then why post here?
This is an incel attitude. The notion that "all women" want any single thing, let alone this caricature is gross. It's insulting to women and men alike, and betrays that your mindset is immature, ill-informed, and toxic.
women want most of the time chatting and socially active strong men able to carry a conversation, manly enough to create a home and have a decent amount of money but delicate enough to be romantic.
That is also what I thought. And I was mostly wrong.
Everyone is unique. Stereotypes usually exist for reasons, but exceptions are much more common than I realized.
I am, genuinely, several of those things, at least a small fraction of the time.
But that's not my secret.
I'll share my key attributes that really worked:
My current partner lived in a shitty situation. Physically shitty. I fixed a bunch of gaps in the walls with a can a "great stuff". We were just friends at the time, and I wasn't looking for anything. It's just something I knew how to do, and my friend's friend (now my long term partner) needed it done. I was fucking clueless how much this meant to them, at the time.
Presently, how I maintain my relationship:
I'm sometimes really deeply shitty at talking to people, so I usually use few words and choose them carefully. My (valid) fear of fucking up is a kind of super power for avoiding dumb partner fights.
I still fix stuff. I'm not afraid of getting dirty, and YouTube academy has been very good to me.
I ask questions during any kind of physical interaction. Mainly "do you want to be touched there?" and "How does that feel?"
I still follow a strict budget, even though I now make good money. I've heard money fights are a big thing, but making and mostly sticking to a written budget has let me dodge that bullet.
Stereotype exist because it's a reality. You being lucky has nothing to do with that. I could try to do what you had done 50 times without any results.
Put this on the positive list. Usually this makes you stronger and a better person.
Is not a positive, ESPECIALLY if you don't want to. Also not everyone wants to be a better person... Whatever the hell that means.
OK, so it is a positive ESPECIALLY for the ones who just come out of a childish defiant phase... ;-)
Not funny. You really think you're better than me only because you want to fit in? You thinking that anyone who thinks different than you is childish, IS CHILDISH.
You really think you're better than me
I really tried to rephrase it in a way that would exclude you. Seems you still feel personally offended. Now I can't help it.
Bullshit. That was your intention.
I find this perspective unfortunate. It is interesting to see how other people view relationships, but I'm not sure I like what I see. This doesn't seem healthy.
Majority of things we do aren't healthy. Also maybe for the fragile isn't healthy, but for me it is. Be loyal to me, I'm loyal to you, love me and I'll love you, belong to me and I'll belong to you, that's it. Why complicate things with more bullshit?
You're being downvoting because people believe in the "romantic ideal" and never analyzed how relationships really look like for a large number of people.
What you write about is not a good thing but unfortunately that's how most people practice relationships.
Well "most" might be a too strong of a qualifier. Depends a lot on the culture. If you come from a culture where marriage is so important that's almost mandatory, the above kind of relationship is inevitable.
Some of those cons could be true, but I think the bigger problem is that they only listed "sex and money" as the only pros.
What are you doing in a relationship if that person isn't basically a really good friend that you can laugh with, do hobbies with, watch and talk about movies with, share music with, etc.
Sure you might have to hang out with mutual friends you don't love (Though a good partner won't force you to). You do need to spend time on their hobbies and likes if you don't specifically share them. I'm not sure if I can vouch for the rest, though, those are some cons where you need to be really selective and find like minds to be with (don't like to speak very often).
the other two (manipulated for sex, fear of divorce) are more like things you should go to therapy to learn not to tolerate or worry about, respectively.
Absolutely, I agree with you completely.
And I actually believe finding a life partner is possible. There are good examples out there.
It's just when you come from a, let's call it heteronormative (word of the day) environment, you are constantly pressured into being in a relationship. With anyone. Doesn't matter if you want it. It leads to awful mental health.
That and if the idea of being lonely frightens you or makes you sad it can be easy to want to latch onto anyone, that's really easy to fall into.
Also, unless they meant fear of breaking up, there's no need to fear being divorced if you just don't get married. Not everybody wants or needs to get married, that also sort of falls into the "take your time and really assess the partner" idea
I've said this before, my mother and father weren't friends. Yet they were married for 11 years. That's more than many friends being married. Is not necessary.
It's not necessary, no, but it can totally be a pro, unless you just don't want to be friends with your lover.
Basically what I've said, some people don't want friends.
So are you a loner or you don’t want a friend who is constantly around?
I don't wanna people around besides my partner and I don't want her relatives around me. It seems like these days is impossible to have a relationship that is just you and your woman, or you and your man and that's it. There's always someone else.
How exactly do you expect to find someone who you want to be around when you by your own admission hate literally all interactions with other people? Newsflash: sex is a social interaction. Are you imagining that she's just going to pop out of a lamp like a Genie? And where does she go after you blow your load? Do you just put her back in the closet like a blow-up doll?
Just admit that what you really want is a sex worker and be honest. It sounds like you have no interest in tolerating someone else's presence unless they are actively banging you. A relationship is about so much more than just sex.
So does that extend to her friends as well? Or is it just family you have a problem with? Also, is it about family that is constantly around and in your business or just that the family feels like they’re part of the relationship too?
Losing your virginity, sex and reproduction for what I've seen. Monetary back up (not always and slightly more beneficial for women).
The need to put up with other people's shit. Sacrifice your "me" time. Meeting people you don't care about. Being related by proxy to people you don't care about it. Giving up your freedom. Being manipulated in certain way just because otherwise you won't have sex. Discussions, discussions discussions. If married, high probability of divorce.
Very incel way of looking at relationship.
For real. Sex is great, sure. What I want for all of the parts of the relationship that aren't having sex is mostly just someone I really like hanging out with
That's you though.
I don't hate women. So no. I hate how that term is thrown if people don't wanna accept your way of living.
Incel doesn't exactly only mean hating woman, incel is basically why you're still single, then you blame it on everything else other than you, hating woman are just a part of it. If someone doesn't want to accept your way of living, then find someone else.
I'm not blaming anything. I'm well aware what an average semi attractive woman wants from a man. I will never be those things. That's not me, I never cared about being those things.
Before I was in a relationship, I was 100% wrong about what "those things" actually are, for what that's worth.
You're a minority, women want most of the time chatting and socially active strong men able to carry a conversation, manly enough to create a home and have a decent amount of money but delicate enough to be romantic. I can't do any of those things. Admit it, that's the majority of women.
So, have you been in past relationships where you learned this or from some sort of observation (going on dates for example)?
I've never been in a relationship. I know this by proxy, average, heard things, data. You don't need to be in a relationship to notice these things dude. Again, if the requirements for a relationship would be as low as the other dude says they were, then people like me wouldn't exist.
So is your relationship abstinence due to striking out because your personality or idea of relationships doesn’t fit the norm and you can’t find a suitable partner, or has your perception of relationships kept you from pursuing relationships entirely?
You basically asked the same thing again. I'm not a good candidate, I don't have a job and when I had one was low income, I'm not social at all, i hate going out to do fun stuff, I don't want to engage or entangle with "her family", I don't drive or own a car, I don't have my own place, I'm not physically strong or good looking and I don't care about being it. I'm not charming or romantic and hate conversations. Would you date me if I you were a girl? No right? That's my point.
I didn’t ask the same question, and you avoided answering mine which was: have you tried or have you just considered yourself a failure?
I became friends with a guy like you, and I had money so I took him places and paid for things because we had fun together. Your situation isn’t hopeless, but your attitude is. Yes, if you want to have a relationship, you do have to be personable because that’s the only way someone would want to hang out with you. You listed all the negative things about your situation but nothing about your hobbies, what you like to do. Okay, you don’t like to “go out and have fun” but do you like to stay in and have fun? My friend and I often played video games together, is that an option?
There are detriments on your list that sound negative not only to a potential partner, but to you. Do you want to have a job? Do you want to have your own place? If so, what’s stopping you? I know you were reading that ex-incel post, so you know many people started by focusing on what they wanted to improve in their lives and forgetting about relationships. You are in a negative place, and I will bet that it’s not just about relationships but about yourself.
Btw, my friend is in a poly relationship now, got his GED, moved to his own place, went to trade school, and works at a news station. The most important thing is he is more confident, comfortable with himself as he is, and happy. It’s not impossible, but you do have to do the work.
You’ll probably have an angry response to this, but I don’t want anyone to think they are a lost cause because that’s what their brain is saying and how society makes them feel, so I just wanted to say something.
Edit: Just to answer your question: I can not say if I would want to date you because I don’t know you. All you talked about was your life situation, not your personality: likes, hobbies, tastes in music, etc. Being compatible in those things would help me determine that.
Angry? I'm just saying the truth. I like videogames but that's hardly anything majority of women like, majority haven't even playing anything in their lives. And honestly no, I don't want to "improve" or change myself into being another person. I dunno what ged is, I'm guessing it's studies, I had only make it up to middle school. You think I'm a failure, I don't care.
See, that's what i'm saying.
You didn't said anything. Again if what you had said was the truth then I wouldn't be single.
This is exactly what people are referring to when they say you sound like an incel, fyi
Again. Incorrect
Doubt it. Every single person who's seen you talk in this thread has agreed. That should be your trigger to say "I wonder why that is". Or ignore the outside world, but then why post here?
This is an incel attitude. The notion that "all women" want any single thing, let alone this caricature is gross. It's insulting to women and men alike, and betrays that your mindset is immature, ill-informed, and toxic.
That is also what I thought. And I was mostly wrong.
Everyone is unique. Stereotypes usually exist for reasons, but exceptions are much more common than I realized.
I am, genuinely, several of those things, at least a small fraction of the time.
But that's not my secret.
I'll share my key attributes that really worked:
Presently, how I maintain my relationship:
Stereotype exist because it's a reality. You being lucky has nothing to do with that. I could try to do what you had done 50 times without any results.
Put this on the positive list. Usually this makes you stronger and a better person.
Is not a positive, ESPECIALLY if you don't want to. Also not everyone wants to be a better person... Whatever the hell that means.
OK, so it is a positive ESPECIALLY for the ones who just come out of a childish defiant phase... ;-)
Not funny. You really think you're better than me only because you want to fit in? You thinking that anyone who thinks different than you is childish, IS CHILDISH.
I really tried to rephrase it in a way that would exclude you. Seems you still feel personally offended. Now I can't help it.
Bullshit. That was your intention.
I find this perspective unfortunate. It is interesting to see how other people view relationships, but I'm not sure I like what I see. This doesn't seem healthy.
Majority of things we do aren't healthy. Also maybe for the fragile isn't healthy, but for me it is. Be loyal to me, I'm loyal to you, love me and I'll love you, belong to me and I'll belong to you, that's it. Why complicate things with more bullshit?
You're being downvoting because people believe in the "romantic ideal" and never analyzed how relationships really look like for a large number of people.
What you write about is not a good thing but unfortunately that's how most people practice relationships.
Well "most" might be a too strong of a qualifier. Depends a lot on the culture. If you come from a culture where marriage is so important that's almost mandatory, the above kind of relationship is inevitable.
Some of those cons could be true, but I think the bigger problem is that they only listed "sex and money" as the only pros.
What are you doing in a relationship if that person isn't basically a really good friend that you can laugh with, do hobbies with, watch and talk about movies with, share music with, etc.
Sure you might have to hang out with mutual friends you don't love (Though a good partner won't force you to). You do need to spend time on their hobbies and likes if you don't specifically share them. I'm not sure if I can vouch for the rest, though, those are some cons where you need to be really selective and find like minds to be with (don't like to speak very often).
the other two (manipulated for sex, fear of divorce) are more like things you should go to therapy to learn not to tolerate or worry about, respectively.
Absolutely, I agree with you completely. And I actually believe finding a life partner is possible. There are good examples out there.
It's just when you come from a, let's call it heteronormative (word of the day) environment, you are constantly pressured into being in a relationship. With anyone. Doesn't matter if you want it. It leads to awful mental health.
That and if the idea of being lonely frightens you or makes you sad it can be easy to want to latch onto anyone, that's really easy to fall into.
Also, unless they meant fear of breaking up, there's no need to fear being divorced if you just don't get married. Not everybody wants or needs to get married, that also sort of falls into the "take your time and really assess the partner" idea
I've said this before, my mother and father weren't friends. Yet they were married for 11 years. That's more than many friends being married. Is not necessary.
It's not necessary, no, but it can totally be a pro, unless you just don't want to be friends with your lover.
Basically what I've said, some people don't want friends.
So are you a loner or you don’t want a friend who is constantly around?
I don't wanna people around besides my partner and I don't want her relatives around me. It seems like these days is impossible to have a relationship that is just you and your woman, or you and your man and that's it. There's always someone else.
How exactly do you expect to find someone who you want to be around when you by your own admission hate literally all interactions with other people? Newsflash: sex is a social interaction. Are you imagining that she's just going to pop out of a lamp like a Genie? And where does she go after you blow your load? Do you just put her back in the closet like a blow-up doll?
Just admit that what you really want is a sex worker and be honest. It sounds like you have no interest in tolerating someone else's presence unless they are actively banging you. A relationship is about so much more than just sex.
So does that extend to her friends as well? Or is it just family you have a problem with? Also, is it about family that is constantly around and in your business or just that the family feels like they’re part of the relationship too?