There will be no justice. We all need to buy guns.
Anyone who looks at a situation where nobody died, and thinks it would have been better if people had been killed, is a violent person and a danger to others.
Something, something break a few eggs, something, omelette.
That's not true, there are plenty of people who if they just fuckin' keeled over the world would be a better place.
That being said I don't think shooting into a crowd of teenagers is the solution, though if I was being beaten by a crowd of them I might change my mind. Call me violent but IMO if it came between me and a crowd of fucking cishets, I know my choice.
Either way the guys a nuclear dofus for leaving his car. I mean what are you going to do, fucking scold them?
So if it was a bunch of transhoms you would be ok?
I don't think most people would sit around and accept being beaten by a crowd of randos was my point.
Like you can commit to an act of self preservation while understanding you're not some paragon of justice, rather another animal that got backed into a corner. Whether or not self defence is the moral choice, I think its probably the most human one. I don't think we can fault people for making that choice.
That also doesn't mean you have to be some bloodthirsty weirdo who jerks off to r/justiceporn to see that nuance.
Yeah I was pointing more towards the fact that someone’s gender or sexuality should not determine whether you are going run them over.
I thought I made that clear with the transhom thing.
My point was to drive home for a predominantly leftist and queer-friendly fediverse, that if put in the same situation, they would probably be doing the same shit. As a trans woman myself, I can tell you that the fear of being hate crimed by a cis straight dude is very real. It is much more likely that we'd be victimized by cis dudes, than other trans folk, or even cis women for that matter.
By framing it from a familiar prospective, it makes it easier to see the point of view of those we might not agree with. That's why I used that specific example.
🤷‍♂️ I guess that’s the conclusion I have when people bothsides this kinda bullshit.
Look, there are literally two sides here. The situation that actually happened, and the situation you think would have been better.
Nobody died in reality, but your solution involves death, so I guess the real issue here is that you picked a side, and it's a morally reprehensible one.
Opinions are like assholes.
If this guy had been armed, he would likely be dead. And some kid would have a new gun.
Well, that’s definitely a possibility.
I mean yeah but like because of the crazy shit the heritage foundation is saying, not because of random teenagers.
Either way, that dipshit escalated the situation himself, but if he didn't I don't know that I'd call shooting into an angry mob that's trying to beat your ass "justice." Justified maybe, but not justice. That feels like fuel for those weird dudes who jerk off to r/justiceporn.
He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished. The man had his entire life in that car, he was probably not in the best place mentally. Why was that his life? What about him? You seem to be siding with the criminals because the victim wanted to stop a crime.
He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished.
Just so I understand your position: Are you saying justice is served when a plastic bottle is thrown at a car (which caused zero damage) should result in the bottle thrower and those with the bottle thrower being shot (possibly to death)?
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
You didn't contradict what I heard you say, so I'll take that as I understood you right.
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
No, but I'm glad you're recognizing that there are differences in the level of actions and that can constitute a reasonable response. Keep building on that:
Throwing a plastic bottle at a vehicle which results in no damage should NOT result in a vigilante sentence of death.
Yelling at someone should NOT result in them being assaulted, their property damaged and stolen.
So how can either of these things be avoided?
The bottle thrower could choose to NOT throw the bottle
The yeller could choose NOT stop and yell.
Look at that! At the end of the day there's no property damage and no deaths of anyone!
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him. And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him.
So the bottle thrower had a chance to avoid this, and the yeller had a chance to avoid this. Neither chose the avoid it. Both chose to escalate it.
And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
Nope. You're pretending that all people act rationally. If you expect that, you're going to be disappointed. Not all people do that. Sorry, that's life. So if you are involved in a situation like this, that doesn't make it morally right for you to shoot someone, which is your position as stated before.
The the bottle thrower shouldn't have thrown. The yeller shouldn't have yelled, and nobody would be talking about this right now because nothing would have happened.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy. Maybe if that black man wasn’t in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe if they spoke better English. Maybe if they they didn’t speak up… they wouldn’t have been hurt.
Blocked.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy.
I am offended that you think dressing sexy is an act of escalation to being raped.
Blocked.
Ah thank goodness! You've made my day better. I don't have to hold my nose anymore when you say its acceptable to shoot people that throw a plastic bottle at a car that creates zero damage.
I'm not saying they where right for beating him, I'm saying getting out of your car and escalating things isn't helping anything.
If a mob comes to beat your ass, potentially to death, and you shoot someone to prevent it, yeah that's justified (and probably should be legally), but it isn't justice. You don't get to be fucking Judge Dredd, and act like self-defense puts you on some moral high-ground. You are not a stand-in for the legal system, which in and of itself is already incredibly flawed.
If you left your car and started shouting at them like a fuckwit before doing so, you might not deserve the beat down but you did kind of earn it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You're not going to accomplish anything by yelling at that crowd other than painting a target on your back.
I think the stupid game is throwing the bottle.
There are two kinds of people. The ones who blame the bad guy, and the ones who blame the victim for getting mad at the bad guy.
Both can be dipshits.
There are lots of kinds of people, for example, you're the sort that fails to see nuance. If you did you wouldn't be putting everything into a right or wrong binary. Talking about 'justice' being when the 'right' people get punished like a fucking child.
Nuance. lol. “Maybe if the victim had not spoken up, they wouldn’t get beat.”
Nothing says nuance like heavily simplifying paragraphs down to a byte that sounds supportive of your argument. Yeah let's ignore the fact he pulled over, got out of his car, and started antagonizing an already angry mob. Fuck off with your strawman bullshit.
Uulu said one of the teens threw a bottle of liquid that hit the passenger side of his car as he passed by them. He then drove through the intersection before pulling over and getting out of his car.Â
"Now, I realize that was a big mistake," he said.
Bazarbai Uulu said the teens started to surround him before one of the suspects, who was wearing a mask, approached him. At that time, he started running away, and several teens chased him.
Getting out of the car is not antagonizing. Fuck off with your victim blaming.
My point isn't that its his fault. My point is that of you're going to be the sort of person to carry a gun, you should be the sort of person to look at this situation and say "If I get out, there is a good chance I could be put in a position where I have to use my gun. Maybe I should fucking avoid that."
I agree that gun owners should feel that way.
Then it sounds like the solution isn't him owning a gun, the solution, save for fixing the societal issues that cause an angry mob of teenagers to do this, is to not get out of the car.
Does that mean he deserved it, or that its his fault? No, but the best answer would to be the bigger person, eat the fact that a dipshit kid threw a water bottle at your car, and go about your life.
So now it’s society? Just blame the fucking teenagers!!!
There will be no justice. We all need to buy guns.
Anyone who looks at a situation where nobody died, and thinks it would have been better if people had been killed, is a violent person and a danger to others.
Something, something break a few eggs, something, omelette.
That's not true, there are plenty of people who if they just fuckin' keeled over the world would be a better place.
That being said I don't think shooting into a crowd of teenagers is the solution, though if I was being beaten by a crowd of them I might change my mind. Call me violent but IMO if it came between me and a crowd of fucking cishets, I know my choice.
Either way the guys a nuclear dofus for leaving his car. I mean what are you going to do, fucking scold them?
So if it was a bunch of transhoms you would be ok?
I don't think most people would sit around and accept being beaten by a crowd of randos was my point.
Like you can commit to an act of self preservation while understanding you're not some paragon of justice, rather another animal that got backed into a corner. Whether or not self defence is the moral choice, I think its probably the most human one. I don't think we can fault people for making that choice.
That also doesn't mean you have to be some bloodthirsty weirdo who jerks off to r/justiceporn to see that nuance.
Yeah I was pointing more towards the fact that someone’s gender or sexuality should not determine whether you are going run them over.
I thought I made that clear with the transhom thing.
My point was to drive home for a predominantly leftist and queer-friendly fediverse, that if put in the same situation, they would probably be doing the same shit. As a trans woman myself, I can tell you that the fear of being hate crimed by a cis straight dude is very real. It is much more likely that we'd be victimized by cis dudes, than other trans folk, or even cis women for that matter.
By framing it from a familiar prospective, it makes it easier to see the point of view of those we might not agree with. That's why I used that specific example.
🤷‍♂️ I guess that’s the conclusion I have when people bothsides this kinda bullshit.
Look, there are literally two sides here. The situation that actually happened, and the situation you think would have been better.
Nobody died in reality, but your solution involves death, so I guess the real issue here is that you picked a side, and it's a morally reprehensible one.
Opinions are like assholes.
If this guy had been armed, he would likely be dead. And some kid would have a new gun.
Well, that’s definitely a possibility.
I mean yeah but like because of the crazy shit the heritage foundation is saying, not because of random teenagers.
Either way, that dipshit escalated the situation himself, but if he didn't I don't know that I'd call shooting into an angry mob that's trying to beat your ass "justice." Justified maybe, but not justice. That feels like fuel for those weird dudes who jerk off to r/justiceporn.
He got out to yell at some vandals and he got beat. If he could protect himself, the right people would have been punished. The man had his entire life in that car, he was probably not in the best place mentally. Why was that his life? What about him? You seem to be siding with the criminals because the victim wanted to stop a crime.
Just so I understand your position: Are you saying justice is served when a plastic bottle is thrown at a car (which caused zero damage) should result in the bottle thrower and those with the bottle thrower being shot (possibly to death)?
So you understand justice is served when some guy gets out of the car to yell at you, and you and your friends beat him near death and destroy and steal everything he owns?
You didn't contradict what I heard you say, so I'll take that as I understood you right.
No, but I'm glad you're recognizing that there are differences in the level of actions and that can constitute a reasonable response. Keep building on that:
So how can either of these things be avoided?
Look at that! At the end of the day there's no property damage and no deaths of anyone!
You’re right. It didn’t become an issue until they beat him. And beating someone for yelling at your crime, big or small, should result in them also being beaten.
So the bottle thrower had a chance to avoid this, and the yeller had a chance to avoid this. Neither chose the avoid it. Both chose to escalate it.
Nope. You're pretending that all people act rationally. If you expect that, you're going to be disappointed. Not all people do that. Sorry, that's life. So if you are involved in a situation like this, that doesn't make it morally right for you to shoot someone, which is your position as stated before.
The the bottle thrower shouldn't have thrown. The yeller shouldn't have yelled, and nobody would be talking about this right now because nothing would have happened.
Maybe if she didn’t dress sexy. Maybe if that black man wasn’t in the wrong neighborhood. Maybe if they spoke better English. Maybe if they they didn’t speak up… they wouldn’t have been hurt.
Blocked.
I am offended that you think dressing sexy is an act of escalation to being raped.
Ah thank goodness! You've made my day better. I don't have to hold my nose anymore when you say its acceptable to shoot people that throw a plastic bottle at a car that creates zero damage.
I'm not saying they where right for beating him, I'm saying getting out of your car and escalating things isn't helping anything.
If a mob comes to beat your ass, potentially to death, and you shoot someone to prevent it, yeah that's justified (and probably should be legally), but it isn't justice. You don't get to be fucking Judge Dredd, and act like self-defense puts you on some moral high-ground. You are not a stand-in for the legal system, which in and of itself is already incredibly flawed.
If you left your car and started shouting at them like a fuckwit before doing so, you might not deserve the beat down but you did kind of earn it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You're not going to accomplish anything by yelling at that crowd other than painting a target on your back.
I think the stupid game is throwing the bottle.
There are two kinds of people. The ones who blame the bad guy, and the ones who blame the victim for getting mad at the bad guy.
Both can be dipshits.
There are lots of kinds of people, for example, you're the sort that fails to see nuance. If you did you wouldn't be putting everything into a right or wrong binary. Talking about 'justice' being when the 'right' people get punished like a fucking child.
Nuance. lol. “Maybe if the victim had not spoken up, they wouldn’t get beat.”
Nothing says nuance like heavily simplifying paragraphs down to a byte that sounds supportive of your argument. Yeah let's ignore the fact he pulled over, got out of his car, and started antagonizing an already angry mob. Fuck off with your strawman bullshit.
Getting out of the car is not antagonizing. Fuck off with your victim blaming.
My point isn't that its his fault. My point is that of you're going to be the sort of person to carry a gun, you should be the sort of person to look at this situation and say "If I get out, there is a good chance I could be put in a position where I have to use my gun. Maybe I should fucking avoid that."
I agree that gun owners should feel that way.
Then it sounds like the solution isn't him owning a gun, the solution, save for fixing the societal issues that cause an angry mob of teenagers to do this, is to not get out of the car.
Does that mean he deserved it, or that its his fault? No, but the best answer would to be the bigger person, eat the fact that a dipshit kid threw a water bottle at your car, and go about your life.
So now it’s society? Just blame the fucking teenagers!!!
what crime was he trying to stop? the kids threw a plastic bottle and it hit his car. like oops oh well, move along Mr. Uluu
It’s totally the victim’s fault. Obviously.
have you ever handled a firearm?
Have you?