Veritasium - Exposing the flaws in the SS7 phone system.

Android@lemmy.world – 93 points – 2 months ago

00:00 I hacked Linus!
00:59 How Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak hacked the telephone network
02:22 Early history of the telephone
07:08 The kidnapping of Sheikha Latifa
08:41 How Signalling System No. 7 works
11:03 Why SS7 is vulnerable to hacking
12:15 How hackers gain access to phones
16:17 How I was able to spy on Linus’ phone
18:09 How hackers can intercept text messages
21:04 How your location can be tracked via SS7
29:03 How to protect your phone from hacking

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It's been known for years that SMS-based 2FA is terrible, terrible security. The sites that use them have no interest in their users' accounts' security: all they're interested in is harvesting their phone numbers.

SMS is fine for 2FA, as long as you can't use it for anything else, like a password reset.

Once the SMS is used for account recovery, it's now 1FA with a terrible security hole.

If you have complex, single use passwords, and have SMS 2FA, then it's pretty ok. Not the best security, but at least better than a most.

Obviously offline time based passkeys are better for the 2FA, but typically the real problem is how to get into an account if you've lost one part of your login.

SMS is fine for 2FA, as long as you can't use it for anything else

Oh yeah? Post your bank customer number and your telephone number on here and see how fast your account gets drained without you even getting a single confirmation code SMS.

How would they get past the other factor, the password?

If you're gonna say "SMS can be used to reset the password" then it starts to sound like you're complaining about insecure password reset processes, not 2FA.

Some people really don't understand layered security.

Too many of them are programmers.

Password are routinely stolen, then bought and sold on hackers' marketplaces. That's how.

Yes, but that argument can be made against TOTP too.

SMS 2FA is less secure than TOTP, but still better than no second factor, since most criminals with access to a password database aren't able to take over your phone number (on a large scale).

With most services allowing some kind of password reset over SMS, I also prefer no 2FA over SMS 2FA. I already lost an account because I changed my number.

Is this via SIM cloning?

im always downvoted and screamed at for saying this but yeah.

i hate stupid forced 2fa

2FA is great. It's the best tool there is against impersonation and account takeovers.

But it's only great PROVIDED

It's a real, proper second factor like a hardware token or - less great but okay - a "secure" cellphone app. When it's a totally insecure factor like SMS, 1FA is preferable.
It's not such a PITA that you hate using it.
When it's a proprietary app from one of the big data sonsabitches, it's also an app to spy on you and your activities.

yes i agree! apps like aegis shows its possible to do it in a reasonable way.

Agree. I appreciate that banks offer 2FA, but do I really need to be forced to give up a real phone number to access a forum, news site, etc.? No.

Whose job is security? Mine, the user, and if I decide one of my accounts is a throwaway or I just mash some keys to get access to something, I shouldn't have to sign up for 2FA to do it.

I think you're going for malice a bit fast when incompetence and negligence seem like pretty likely culprits to me.

the worst are apps that use it as the sole form of authentication