Young women are alright, right wing support amongst <35 y.o. men is surprisingly high...
Agreed. I'm a teacher and see it in my classrooms. I often feel that they're not taught how to have healthy community, so they become lil fascists...
If they're like my nephew, the "manosphere" gives them easy answers as to why everything seems to suck.
It's also the only answer. Society has really neglected boys for a long time now.
Yup. Patriarchy did them dirty. Society told them they had to be strong, stoic, and without emotion. And when that butted up against the realities of being a human we didn't have any community to lead them towards living a good and healthy life.
You can fault the Right for a lot of things but they got there first on this one. They have a story for why things suck and they’re pounding the drum on it relentlessly. It doesn’t matter that this story is full of holes when the alternative is not compelling.
Yup. The propaganda machine moved quick when they realized this population could be manipulated into action outside of message boards.
Calling it "patriarchy" is thinly-veiled victim blaming, implying that men suffer primarily because of other men's decisions. Everything you describe is perpetuated and maintained by both sexes. The social fabric of modern society, its implicit rules and conventions, is not a male establishment.
Western society is not, at all, a "patriarchy".
Patriarchy did em dirty, but feminism also left them behind. It's not just patriarchal society that forces men to be strong and stoic, it's also self-professed feminists, especially women. Feminists say men should be more in touch with their emotions, but when they do so women have no interest in them. That's one of the realities of life you mentioned.
That's still patriarchy, my guy. They've been raised to be complicit in a system that doesn't benefit them, and they're perpetuating it because they don't like how it feels to step outside of it.
I disagree that it's fair to call that patriarchy, but that's beside the point. The failure of feminists to take any action against it or even to sound like they care is what I was getting at. That is by definition not patriarchy, it's the indifference of feminism.
Feminism may not be directly attacking men, but it's also not helping men except as an occasional side effect of helping women. Men have no acceptable paradigm to help them navigate society.
Any attempt at "Men's theory" or some such gets simultaneously attacked by feminists and misogynists and quickly gets subsumed into one of those two camps.
Bro, you're almost there...
Get me over the finish line then.
He/she already tried.
All I see is "everything bad is patriarchy, everything good is feminism" and a steadfast avoidance of the specific issue I brought up.
See? Dismissive, refusal to acknowledge systemic issues, rugged individualism. That's holdovers from patriarchy and feminists should reject that thought process.
When women have a problem, it is society's fault and we should fix it. When men have a problem, it's their own fault and they individually should fix it. That's not fair, and the fact that no one in the feminist sphere seems to give a shit leaves young men deciding to turn to misogynists for moral support.
Red pill types will say, "we see you. This is a problem. You're not crazy." That's very powerful when there's no alternative.
You have a lot more sympathy for right-wing incels than you do for people who don't support genocide.
right wing support amongst <35 y.o. men is surprisingly high…
The media is flush with fascist attitudes in a country where going on the computer and listening to fascist rants is all you're allowed to do with your time.
"in a country where [...] all you're allowed to do with your time."
Eh... The same phenomenon is observed all over first world countries and all of those countries you're allowed to do mostly whatever the fuck you want with your free time...
you’re allowed to do mostly whatever the fuck you want with your free time…
You're free to do what you want and the police are free to rough you up for loitering.
all you're allowed to do with your time.
If you stopped listening to fascist folks you could step outside and see that you have a lot more options.
I have great hope that they'll be better than our generation, just as we were better than our parents. Fuck the 'fuck the kids' mentality.
I'm a classroom teacher, and I find that you've gotta sometimes have both "fuck them kids" and "for the kids" in different measures. But overall, I feel like they're doing a lot of cool things.
That's a good point. I think that one of the myths that needs to die is that if the cherubic, sweet, innocent, and pure child. Many children, without guidance, are sociopathic assholes. We're not born "good" then corrupted by the world, we're born with some personality traits that may or may not help us as social creatures and need help to learn how to handle our emotions and cooperate with others in a manner that is pro-social.
Yup. Like John Green, I'm generally in favor of humans, but we've got some perfectly natural tendencies that can really harm others if left unchecked. I think kids want to do good, but they need to be taught how to, given the space to practice, and corrected with grace when they fuck it up.
A side effect of me being terminally online is that you can predict the top comment of some posts
The kids are alright.
Young women are alright, right wing support amongst <35 y.o. men is surprisingly high...
Agreed. I'm a teacher and see it in my classrooms. I often feel that they're not taught how to have healthy community, so they become lil fascists...
If they're like my nephew, the "manosphere" gives them easy answers as to why everything seems to suck.
It's also the only answer. Society has really neglected boys for a long time now.
Yup. Patriarchy did them dirty. Society told them they had to be strong, stoic, and without emotion. And when that butted up against the realities of being a human we didn't have any community to lead them towards living a good and healthy life.
You can fault the Right for a lot of things but they got there first on this one. They have a story for why things suck and they’re pounding the drum on it relentlessly. It doesn’t matter that this story is full of holes when the alternative is not compelling.
Yup. The propaganda machine moved quick when they realized this population could be manipulated into action outside of message boards.
Calling it "patriarchy" is thinly-veiled victim blaming, implying that men suffer primarily because of other men's decisions. Everything you describe is perpetuated and maintained by both sexes. The social fabric of modern society, its implicit rules and conventions, is not a male establishment.
Western society is not, at all, a "patriarchy".
Patriarchy did em dirty, but feminism also left them behind. It's not just patriarchal society that forces men to be strong and stoic, it's also self-professed feminists, especially women. Feminists say men should be more in touch with their emotions, but when they do so women have no interest in them. That's one of the realities of life you mentioned.
That's still patriarchy, my guy. They've been raised to be complicit in a system that doesn't benefit them, and they're perpetuating it because they don't like how it feels to step outside of it.
I disagree that it's fair to call that patriarchy, but that's beside the point. The failure of feminists to take any action against it or even to sound like they care is what I was getting at. That is by definition not patriarchy, it's the indifference of feminism.
Feminism may not be directly attacking men, but it's also not helping men except as an occasional side effect of helping women. Men have no acceptable paradigm to help them navigate society.
Any attempt at "Men's theory" or some such gets simultaneously attacked by feminists and misogynists and quickly gets subsumed into one of those two camps.
Bro, you're almost there...
Get me over the finish line then.
He/she already tried.
All I see is "everything bad is patriarchy, everything good is feminism" and a steadfast avoidance of the specific issue I brought up.
You need to hang out with better women, my man.
See? Dismissive, refusal to acknowledge systemic issues, rugged individualism. That's holdovers from patriarchy and feminists should reject that thought process.
When women have a problem, it is society's fault and we should fix it. When men have a problem, it's their own fault and they individually should fix it. That's not fair, and the fact that no one in the feminist sphere seems to give a shit leaves young men deciding to turn to misogynists for moral support.
Red pill types will say, "we see you. This is a problem. You're not crazy." That's very powerful when there's no alternative.
You have a lot more sympathy for right-wing incels than you do for people who don't support genocide.
Personally, I find my experience to be much the opposite. But, I'm also in my late thirties so, experiences may differ.
Every single woman I know wants a guy in touch with their emotions. And those who found them, married them.
Tell your friends to stop trying to date under 25 year olds. We get over that shit at about this age.
Cool, good for you. That's not the norm. At any age.
It doesn't help that every time we point out how society failed boys, there's always someone who says it's misogynistic to show men any concern....
Being a guy is no cake walk, and if anyone can say that with a straight face it's me.
lights up a cigarette They say women like a bad boy, well, I was so bad at being a boy I became a girl.
Yup. And it's always women and brown folks.
Don't forget LGBTQ and furries. 🙄
The amount of times I've had to address the "students using litter boxes" schtick is absolutely mind boggling.
It's always a school two towns over, and it's always someone who has no attachment to the school attempting to push it.
Tell your nephew that Trump just said he’ll ban video games if he wins.
They know this shit isn't working, so they're siding with the ones who give them someone to blame... It's that simple....
The media is flush with fascist attitudes in a country where going on the computer and listening to fascist rants is all you're allowed to do with your time.
"in a country where [...] all you're allowed to do with your time."
Eh... The same phenomenon is observed all over first world countries and all of those countries you're allowed to do mostly whatever the fuck you want with your free time...
You're free to do what you want and the police are free to rough you up for loitering.
If you stopped listening to fascist folks you could step outside and see that you have a lot more options.
Sorry you're in this rut!
I have great hope that they'll be better than our generation, just as we were better than our parents. Fuck the 'fuck the kids' mentality.
I'm a classroom teacher, and I find that you've gotta sometimes have both "fuck them kids" and "for the kids" in different measures. But overall, I feel like they're doing a lot of cool things.
That's a good point. I think that one of the myths that needs to die is that if the cherubic, sweet, innocent, and pure child. Many children, without guidance, are sociopathic assholes. We're not born "good" then corrupted by the world, we're born with some personality traits that may or may not help us as social creatures and need help to learn how to handle our emotions and cooperate with others in a manner that is pro-social.
Yup. Like John Green, I'm generally in favor of humans, but we've got some perfectly natural tendencies that can really harm others if left unchecked. I think kids want to do good, but they need to be taught how to, given the space to practice, and corrected with grace when they fuck it up.
A side effect of me being terminally online is that you can predict the top comment of some posts