What accomplishments has she had that you're particularly excited about? I know people love her but people love populists, and when I think of AOC that's what I see. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see her as an effective legislator. Just someone who says things the base likes to hear. Very unpopular here but I feel that way about Bernie too. Makes great points but doesn't know how to actually navigate Congress and get any of it accomplished. Put up bills that are only supported by a small minority and make no efforts to actually build proper coalitions to get things passed. The best leaders in legislature are often not the most well known or vocal, but the ones who can put up policy, build a coalition around it, and get things passed. Despite what people might think of Biden, he's someone who knows how to do that. Talk is cheap and being a populist is easy.
Is this the sound of crickets?
I see you didn’t point out anything she said that you disagree with 😂
Because I don't disagree with things she says...
My previous comment was just pointing out how you fell into the same pattern that the original comments pointed out about how no one disagrees with her.
Your point is less of a reflection on oac and more of a reflection on our political theater. It’s pretty disingenuous to criticize her so for how other politicians vote instead of the content of her bills or actions.
You pointed out how Biden gets things passed. They are not always good things and often are quite gutted from what they were advertised as. See the railroad strikers deal they were forced to accept. They were striking for safety and compensation reasons and had their hand forced by Biden. They got a crap deal that lead to even crappier results. I would not call that a success even if Biden got it to work.
Why don’t you see her as an effective legislator? You make very broad points with not much content, you speak like a politician
Because none of her policies have actually gone anywhere. I appreciate she shows up to vote for other policy and can be a part of a broader coalition, but she has not proven to me she is able to actually push her own legislation and build a viable coalition to get things passed. When I vote for a candidate I look for two things. Their policy positions align with my own, and they have the ability to move policy. She, so far, ticks just one of those boxes. She's also young and can very well figure it out over time.
Centrist Democrats outnumber progressives in congress, and caucus with Republicans on progressive issues.
This reads less like criticism from someone who agrees with her and more like gloating from someone who doesn't.
Is there a way to quickly and easily see what someone's voting record is? Like just a list or yeah/nays. I tried to find anything before and ended up in a rabbit hole of policy points.
It’s sad you’re getting downvoted because this is a great point… it’s also depressing because politics is corrupt bullshit… but since that’s never going to change short of our country going full France/let them eat cake, I guess we need people that can work in the system…
I would even venture to say re: Bernie that he is actually a negative since what he proposes is too “radical” from the current status quo and it ruins any chance he has to get traction. Sadly, change won’t come over night… it’s going to take lots of little steps to get there.
It's weird that "radical" Bernie Sanders has policies that the vast majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle support. We just have some shitty voters.
I’m glad that an inability to understand nuance and have a helpful discussion wasn’t just a Reddit thing but apparently exists here as well! Reminds me why I almost exclusively lurked and avoided any posts that weren’t just talking about stuff people in the sub enjoyed… at least I’m finding out early that I need to just shut up and avoid trying to have discussions.
In response to your post, which will probably be the last engagement I have in this thread…
I put “radical” in quotes as compared to what the current status quo is (which I am not supporting FTR). We are in late stage capitalism… we are being controlled by the rich. Our government is corrupt and garbage… and to go from this to what Bernie wants is absolutely radical. Is it bad? Not generally IMHO. But is it a massive departure from where we’re at now? Yes.
As to your statement that his policies are supported by “the vast majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle”… where do you pull this data from? Because if we only had “some” shitty voters I find it hard to believe we’d be where we’re at now… but maybe I’m wrong… that just seems like one of these “sounds good, but is ultimately based on nothing real” internet takes that people like to throw around…
I won't spend too much time responding, as your seem to be taking your ball and going home, even though I wasn't arguing with you, weird that it came across that way. Anyway, it's easy to google this.
Here's a quote from politifact:
For each of those issues except single-payer health care, a more modest percentage of all Americans — but still a majority — signal their support.
I agree with not downvoting. No one should be disagreeing with wanting to know a politicians voting record. Voting records should be widely known and easily accessible. They should be referenced in news articles the same way actors always have movie credits quickly listed anytime they're brought up.
What accomplishments has she had that you're particularly excited about? I know people love her but people love populists, and when I think of AOC that's what I see. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see her as an effective legislator. Just someone who says things the base likes to hear. Very unpopular here but I feel that way about Bernie too. Makes great points but doesn't know how to actually navigate Congress and get any of it accomplished. Put up bills that are only supported by a small minority and make no efforts to actually build proper coalitions to get things passed. The best leaders in legislature are often not the most well known or vocal, but the ones who can put up policy, build a coalition around it, and get things passed. Despite what people might think of Biden, he's someone who knows how to do that. Talk is cheap and being a populist is easy.
Is this the sound of crickets?
I see you didn’t point out anything she said that you disagree with 😂
Because I don't disagree with things she says...
My previous comment was just pointing out how you fell into the same pattern that the original comments pointed out about how no one disagrees with her.
Your point is less of a reflection on oac and more of a reflection on our political theater. It’s pretty disingenuous to criticize her so for how other politicians vote instead of the content of her bills or actions.
You pointed out how Biden gets things passed. They are not always good things and often are quite gutted from what they were advertised as. See the railroad strikers deal they were forced to accept. They were striking for safety and compensation reasons and had their hand forced by Biden. They got a crap deal that lead to even crappier results. I would not call that a success even if Biden got it to work.
Why don’t you see her as an effective legislator? You make very broad points with not much content, you speak like a politician
Because none of her policies have actually gone anywhere. I appreciate she shows up to vote for other policy and can be a part of a broader coalition, but she has not proven to me she is able to actually push her own legislation and build a viable coalition to get things passed. When I vote for a candidate I look for two things. Their policy positions align with my own, and they have the ability to move policy. She, so far, ticks just one of those boxes. She's also young and can very well figure it out over time.
Centrist Democrats outnumber progressives in congress, and caucus with Republicans on progressive issues.
This reads less like criticism from someone who agrees with her and more like gloating from someone who doesn't.
Is there a way to quickly and easily see what someone's voting record is? Like just a list or yeah/nays. I tried to find anything before and ended up in a rabbit hole of policy points.
Scroll down and you'll see her key votes listed here- https://ballotpedia.org/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez
Nice, that's a start. Thank you!
It’s sad you’re getting downvoted because this is a great point… it’s also depressing because politics is corrupt bullshit… but since that’s never going to change short of our country going full France/let them eat cake, I guess we need people that can work in the system…
I would even venture to say re: Bernie that he is actually a negative since what he proposes is too “radical” from the current status quo and it ruins any chance he has to get traction. Sadly, change won’t come over night… it’s going to take lots of little steps to get there.
It's weird that "radical" Bernie Sanders has policies that the vast majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle support. We just have some shitty voters.
I’m glad that an inability to understand nuance and have a helpful discussion wasn’t just a Reddit thing but apparently exists here as well! Reminds me why I almost exclusively lurked and avoided any posts that weren’t just talking about stuff people in the sub enjoyed… at least I’m finding out early that I need to just shut up and avoid trying to have discussions.
In response to your post, which will probably be the last engagement I have in this thread…
I put “radical” in quotes as compared to what the current status quo is (which I am not supporting FTR). We are in late stage capitalism… we are being controlled by the rich. Our government is corrupt and garbage… and to go from this to what Bernie wants is absolutely radical. Is it bad? Not generally IMHO. But is it a massive departure from where we’re at now? Yes.
As to your statement that his policies are supported by “the vast majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle”… where do you pull this data from? Because if we only had “some” shitty voters I find it hard to believe we’d be where we’re at now… but maybe I’m wrong… that just seems like one of these “sounds good, but is ultimately based on nothing real” internet takes that people like to throw around…
I won't spend too much time responding, as your seem to be taking your ball and going home, even though I wasn't arguing with you, weird that it came across that way. Anyway, it's easy to google this. Here's a quote from politifact:
I agree with not downvoting. No one should be disagreeing with wanting to know a politicians voting record. Voting records should be widely known and easily accessible. They should be referenced in news articles the same way actors always have movie credits quickly listed anytime they're brought up.