Obligatory elan.school. Shit is fucked up and it’s child abuse for profit and sometimes paid for by tax dollars.
Also The Program on Netflix. It’s a really well put together documentary made by one of the students at a similar school.
My SO went to that program and deals with lifelong trauma from that place. They’re constantly telling me about another person that went through the program with them that committed suicide. It’s really depressing.
Ho. Lee. Shit.
I've been reading this over the past few days since you posted it, I'm on chapter 69, and just wanted to thank you for sharing it. This is the most insane mind-fuck, eye opening read I've ever read. Even just experiencing this story 2nd hand through the words of the author is absolutely soul crushing. I can't even begin to imagine what these kids have gone through.
I know! Someone else shared it and it has really stuck with me. I share it any time it’s relevant because his experience wasn’t that long ago and they aren’t the only ones.
hey I read that not too long ago. helluva ride.
wouldn't want to be there though
I was sent to a facility like this in Utah as a teenager. After completing a "wilderness program". I have basically blocked out a large part of my teen memories as a result.
Reminds me of Paris Hilton's experience in Provo where she dealt with assault. Apparently these places are so unregulated, that there's basically no regulations.
these places are so unregulated, that there's basically no regulations.
Isn't that just "unregulated"? "Completely unregulated"?
I mean sure, if you wanna split hairs. Maybe underrgulagted was a better choice, but that's harder to mobile swipe / type.
How many more need to die more the FBI launches a real investigation?
These crimes go over state lines and some are even transnational like Atlantis Leadership academy.
The problem wasn't the lack of checks, it was not following up on the vomiting. Tbh q15min checks visualizing the face with a flashlight throughout the entire night should be considered an act of cruelty.
Does it mention using a flashlight? I just read they're supposed to check that she's breathing.
"As a result of Duenez’s death, Vive said it would re-train staff to observe three breaths for every client every 15 minutes and to “carry flashlights for checks at night” to ensure “head and neck are visualized” during those checks."
Hopefully not in their face. You can use a flashlight to illuminate an area without directly pointing it at something.
Yeah but in practice you catch the face by accident a lot anyway. You also have to realize that these people are uncomfortable and scared for both real and delusional reasons, so they're not exactly heavy sleepers. I should also add that sleep is arguably the single biggest factor in recovery from most acute episodes of any psychiatric disorder. When I've had inpatient stays they even disrupted my sleep occasionally and I can usually sleep through anything. Even opening the door wakes a lot of people up and a lot of people can't sleep with the door open, and also sometimes things get loud in the hall, even at night.
It's another example of people who have never actually spent any real time in that environment either working or receiving care trying to make rules that don't make any sense and without regard for what the people those rules actually affect are telling them. As someone who's done both several times over in several different places, that kind of thing hits me doubly so.
People also have a tendency to make decisions based on what makes them personally feel better instead of allowing the disabled and institutionalized the dignity of privacy and making at least some of their own decisions. In this case they want me spying on them more but there are lots of ways this manifests. People especially get super uncomfortable thinking about disabled people having sex or even just a sexuality at all. People would also literally rather me tie their 98y/o grandma to the bed and let her scream until the drugs kick in than let her crack her head falling on the way to the bathroom and die and/or admit that they were blessed she made it that far to begin with.
You think they care that much? My time in a place with the policy had a flashlight shined in my face every time, because they were all too rushed to aim it properly.
No, but it's certainly possible to check on people and be considerate as well. I'm aware most are unfortunately not. Sorry you were a victim of a failed system.
Oh it absolutely is, and I appreciate the support. I think it's a combination of being understaffed and being rushed to finish their route only to start it again.
Understaffing and poor management are tragically endemic problems in the mental health field.
It truly is, and I feel it every day.
Red flashlights can help. I've done nightly checks on SUD patients. Although, usually their roommates will say something before you get a chance to find out.
I've done this before, but I find rehab patients are (usually) less delusional. This can be perceived a little differently by someone living in a world where demons and aliens are real and coming for them.
Like...overnight? It'd be kinda creepy if they were watching her sleep in fairness
There is plenty of room to debate tradeoffs in patient care. However, the policy was to perform a check every 15 minutes overnight. Not great for sleep quality and, all else being equal, a net negative for mental health. However, it does prevent a long tail of serious negative outcomes (such as, potentially, this death). There are a bunch of healthcare circumstances where sleep quality is sacrificed in favor of other concerns.
In this particular case, in addition to all of the normal concerns the facility would have, this girl was:
on a new medication
nauseous
unwell enough that she cut a phone call short to go to bed early (which sounds like was out of character for her)
Those are all red flags that her condition should be monitored closet than normal.
Obligatory elan.school. Shit is fucked up and it’s child abuse for profit and sometimes paid for by tax dollars.
Also The Program on Netflix. It’s a really well put together documentary made by one of the students at a similar school.
My SO went to that program and deals with lifelong trauma from that place. They’re constantly telling me about another person that went through the program with them that committed suicide. It’s really depressing.
Ho. Lee. Shit.
I've been reading this over the past few days since you posted it, I'm on chapter 69, and just wanted to thank you for sharing it. This is the most insane mind-fuck, eye opening read I've ever read. Even just experiencing this story 2nd hand through the words of the author is absolutely soul crushing. I can't even begin to imagine what these kids have gone through.
I know! Someone else shared it and it has really stuck with me. I share it any time it’s relevant because his experience wasn’t that long ago and they aren’t the only ones.
hey I read that not too long ago. helluva ride.
wouldn't want to be there though
I was sent to a facility like this in Utah as a teenager. After completing a "wilderness program". I have basically blocked out a large part of my teen memories as a result.
Reminds me of Paris Hilton's experience in Provo where she dealt with assault. Apparently these places are so unregulated, that there's basically no regulations.
Isn't that just "unregulated"? "Completely unregulated"?
I mean sure, if you wanna split hairs. Maybe underrgulagted was a better choice, but that's harder to mobile swipe / type.
How many more need to die more the FBI launches a real investigation? These crimes go over state lines and some are even transnational like Atlantis Leadership academy.
The problem wasn't the lack of checks, it was not following up on the vomiting. Tbh q15min checks visualizing the face with a flashlight throughout the entire night should be considered an act of cruelty.
Does it mention using a flashlight? I just read they're supposed to check that she's breathing.
Hopefully not in their face. You can use a flashlight to illuminate an area without directly pointing it at something.
Yeah but in practice you catch the face by accident a lot anyway. You also have to realize that these people are uncomfortable and scared for both real and delusional reasons, so they're not exactly heavy sleepers. I should also add that sleep is arguably the single biggest factor in recovery from most acute episodes of any psychiatric disorder. When I've had inpatient stays they even disrupted my sleep occasionally and I can usually sleep through anything. Even opening the door wakes a lot of people up and a lot of people can't sleep with the door open, and also sometimes things get loud in the hall, even at night.
It's another example of people who have never actually spent any real time in that environment either working or receiving care trying to make rules that don't make any sense and without regard for what the people those rules actually affect are telling them. As someone who's done both several times over in several different places, that kind of thing hits me doubly so.
People also have a tendency to make decisions based on what makes them personally feel better instead of allowing the disabled and institutionalized the dignity of privacy and making at least some of their own decisions. In this case they want me spying on them more but there are lots of ways this manifests. People especially get super uncomfortable thinking about disabled people having sex or even just a sexuality at all. People would also literally rather me tie their 98y/o grandma to the bed and let her scream until the drugs kick in than let her crack her head falling on the way to the bathroom and die and/or admit that they were blessed she made it that far to begin with.
You think they care that much? My time in a place with the policy had a flashlight shined in my face every time, because they were all too rushed to aim it properly.
No, but it's certainly possible to check on people and be considerate as well. I'm aware most are unfortunately not. Sorry you were a victim of a failed system.
Oh it absolutely is, and I appreciate the support. I think it's a combination of being understaffed and being rushed to finish their route only to start it again.
Understaffing and poor management are tragically endemic problems in the mental health field.
It truly is, and I feel it every day.
Red flashlights can help. I've done nightly checks on SUD patients. Although, usually their roommates will say something before you get a chance to find out.
I've done this before, but I find rehab patients are (usually) less delusional. This can be perceived a little differently by someone living in a world where demons and aliens are real and coming for them.
Like...overnight? It'd be kinda creepy if they were watching her sleep in fairness
There is plenty of room to debate tradeoffs in patient care. However, the policy was to perform a check every 15 minutes overnight. Not great for sleep quality and, all else being equal, a net negative for mental health. However, it does prevent a long tail of serious negative outcomes (such as, potentially, this death). There are a bunch of healthcare circumstances where sleep quality is sacrificed in favor of other concerns.
In this particular case, in addition to all of the normal concerns the facility would have, this girl was:
Those are all red flags that her condition should be monitored closet than normal.
I mean, they probably let people sleep right