That’s not how it works. I know multiple Muslim women who wear headscarves and abayas without anyone pressuring them to do so. Blanket banning that is taking away their rights; where does it end? Do we ban all marriages because some women are pressured into one?
They don't can women from wearing them - just children that usually wear whatever their parents want them to wear without having a choice.
It's about making a conscious decision while also removing as much religion from schools as possible
It doesn’t end in schools, the far right is also banning them from government property and fining women who cover their face in public.
Why would women want to cover their face in public?
Some women do because it’s considered Mustahab, they do it out of a desire to get extra credit from God. Others do it because they want a sense of privacy, as in they only show their face to their family.
It’s sometimes hard for non-Muslims to grasp but they want to be judged based on their ideas and speech and not by their looks. A lot of western society won’t take women seriously if they don’t put makeup on or dress a certain way, and this is pushing back on that mindset.
Women are taught since childhood that if they don't cover themselves they will go to hell (basically), so when people say "they are not forced, they do it because they want", its because they are taught if they dont do it, they are going to be punished.
You wouldn't send a kid in a bikini and makeup to school, right? So why is the other option not wrong too?
Again that’s not true. Go talk to some Muslims before you just repeat false stereotypes.
And even if that were true that people do things for their religion, why is it your business? Are you going to force us to eat pork, like some French far right extremists are calling for?
Im going to force you to accept homosexuality, yes.
Is that what this has been about in your mind? We can’t freely wear what we want because you want to force your politics on others?
Politics? I dont want to be beaten up or killed on the streets because in holding hands with my partner.
You calling it politics shows what you really think about homosexuality.
Glad of the decision of France and hope more west European countries follow them.
You’re being needlessly hyperbolic. You can hold hands with men in literally any and every Muslim country out there. It’s absolutely normal. But it’s quite telling how the false stereotypes in your mind work.
Sexuality is your hot button issue and religious freedom is mine. You’re demanding your opinion be respected while insulting mine. You’re fine with trying to force others to agree with you while I’m merely for letting people be free to wear what they want. Somehow you view that as a threat? Wearing longsleeves leads to homophobia in your crazy mind. France is only hurting itself and causing more conflict, you need to learn French history better to see how badly this will end.
A lot of Muslim countries have death penalty on homosexual, what are you even talking about?
Im not insulting you in any way. Dont compare the lgbt community to your religion. We are really fighting for freedom. You are fighting for women opression and punishment of homosexuality. Period.
How many Muslim children have you spoken to? Seriously? You know nothing.
Kids want to imitate and be seen as adults; which is why Muslim boys want to grow beards even without any prompting and Muslim girls want to wear hijab because it’s also a sign they’ve matured. Sikh boys want to have beards and turbans for the same reason, and conservative Jewish boys want to have facial hair or a payess.
To these kids, you’re telling them they can’t look like their families in school and have to suppress their religion and culture. You’re singling them out and putting all the burden on them and not putting the same burden on the non-minority children. That’s the wrong way to do it.
If an adult wear provocative dresses or adult clothes, you would not let a child dress like that because their parents do.
All religious items are banned in schools in France, so just because you are minority, don't give you the right to not follow what others do.
It's just for schoolgirls and college students. It's not a nationwide ban. This move is just a pr move to gain far right votes, nothing more.
It's also showing those children that it's not bad if you're not wearing that kind of clothing.
If they want to use them as a cultural choice when they are adults that's fine - the problem is if they never new anything else as the default.
Putting a bird that knew freedom back in a cage is harder than keeping one caged all their life. It just makes it easier for those children to break out of their patriarchal structures
What a condescending message. It’s also sending a message that the government views your religion as inferior. It’s just an extension of the same colonialism that France showed to immigrants for centuries. Catholic nuns aren’t fined and harassed the way Muslim women are. These laws don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why it’s creating a backlash among minority groups.
The same rules are in place for the kippah or wearing crosses afaik - so your point is invalid
The rules are NOT enforced equally. Anyone in French schools will tell you this.
It’s a law intended to be enforced mainly against one group, which is why it’s so controversial within France. (This is not new, it’s been a complaint ever since the law was voted on in 2004, when the original regulation explicitly said small crosses could be exempt but no exception made for other religions.) It’s only gotten worse since French police fined people for not wearing masks during Covid and then fined Muslim women for covering their faces with masks.)
It’s like having a law against sleeping on park benches or under bridges and pretending that the law isn’t meant to discriminate against the poor.
Not even religion, culture. My grandma used to wear a headscarf pretty much everywhere. She was Italian and not Muslim.
Plus, if they are being forced, then either they're going to get beaten or murdered for taking it off, or they won't go to school to avoid being beaten or murdered. So it doesn't help those women either. It's purely a far right PR stunt to appeal to people who hate Muslims.
*banning systematic oppression of women
There, fixed that for ya
That’s not how it works. I know multiple Muslim women who wear headscarves and abayas without anyone pressuring them to do so. Blanket banning that is taking away their rights; where does it end? Do we ban all marriages because some women are pressured into one?
They don't can women from wearing them - just children that usually wear whatever their parents want them to wear without having a choice.
It's about making a conscious decision while also removing as much religion from schools as possible
It doesn’t end in schools, the far right is also banning them from government property and fining women who cover their face in public.
Why would women want to cover their face in public?
Some women do because it’s considered Mustahab, they do it out of a desire to get extra credit from God. Others do it because they want a sense of privacy, as in they only show their face to their family.
It’s sometimes hard for non-Muslims to grasp but they want to be judged based on their ideas and speech and not by their looks. A lot of western society won’t take women seriously if they don’t put makeup on or dress a certain way, and this is pushing back on that mindset.
Women are taught since childhood that if they don't cover themselves they will go to hell (basically), so when people say "they are not forced, they do it because they want", its because they are taught if they dont do it, they are going to be punished.
You wouldn't send a kid in a bikini and makeup to school, right? So why is the other option not wrong too?
Again that’s not true. Go talk to some Muslims before you just repeat false stereotypes.
And even if that were true that people do things for their religion, why is it your business? Are you going to force us to eat pork, like some French far right extremists are calling for?
Im going to force you to accept homosexuality, yes.
Is that what this has been about in your mind? We can’t freely wear what we want because you want to force your politics on others?
Politics? I dont want to be beaten up or killed on the streets because in holding hands with my partner.
You calling it politics shows what you really think about homosexuality.
Glad of the decision of France and hope more west European countries follow them.
You’re being needlessly hyperbolic. You can hold hands with men in literally any and every Muslim country out there. It’s absolutely normal. But it’s quite telling how the false stereotypes in your mind work.
Sexuality is your hot button issue and religious freedom is mine. You’re demanding your opinion be respected while insulting mine. You’re fine with trying to force others to agree with you while I’m merely for letting people be free to wear what they want. Somehow you view that as a threat? Wearing longsleeves leads to homophobia in your crazy mind. France is only hurting itself and causing more conflict, you need to learn French history better to see how badly this will end.
A lot of Muslim countries have death penalty on homosexual, what are you even talking about?
Im not insulting you in any way. Dont compare the lgbt community to your religion. We are really fighting for freedom. You are fighting for women opression and punishment of homosexuality. Period.
No children is choosing to wear it.
How many Muslim children have you spoken to? Seriously? You know nothing.
Kids want to imitate and be seen as adults; which is why Muslim boys want to grow beards even without any prompting and Muslim girls want to wear hijab because it’s also a sign they’ve matured. Sikh boys want to have beards and turbans for the same reason, and conservative Jewish boys want to have facial hair or a payess.
To these kids, you’re telling them they can’t look like their families in school and have to suppress their religion and culture. You’re singling them out and putting all the burden on them and not putting the same burden on the non-minority children. That’s the wrong way to do it.
If an adult wear provocative dresses or adult clothes, you would not let a child dress like that because their parents do.
All religious items are banned in schools in France, so just because you are minority, don't give you the right to not follow what others do.
It's just for schoolgirls and college students. It's not a nationwide ban. This move is just a pr move to gain far right votes, nothing more.
It's also showing those children that it's not bad if you're not wearing that kind of clothing.
If they want to use them as a cultural choice when they are adults that's fine - the problem is if they never new anything else as the default.
Putting a bird that knew freedom back in a cage is harder than keeping one caged all their life. It just makes it easier for those children to break out of their patriarchal structures
What a condescending message. It’s also sending a message that the government views your religion as inferior. It’s just an extension of the same colonialism that France showed to immigrants for centuries. Catholic nuns aren’t fined and harassed the way Muslim women are. These laws don’t exist in a vacuum, which is why it’s creating a backlash among minority groups.
The same rules are in place for the kippah or wearing crosses afaik - so your point is invalid
The rules are NOT enforced equally. Anyone in French schools will tell you this.
It’s a law intended to be enforced mainly against one group, which is why it’s so controversial within France. (This is not new, it’s been a complaint ever since the law was voted on in 2004, when the original regulation explicitly said small crosses could be exempt but no exception made for other religions.) It’s only gotten worse since French police fined people for not wearing masks during Covid and then fined Muslim women for covering their faces with masks.)
It’s like having a law against sleeping on park benches or under bridges and pretending that the law isn’t meant to discriminate against the poor.
Not even religion, culture. My grandma used to wear a headscarf pretty much everywhere. She was Italian and not Muslim.
Plus, if they are being forced, then either they're going to get beaten or murdered for taking it off, or they won't go to school to avoid being beaten or murdered. So it doesn't help those women either. It's purely a far right PR stunt to appeal to people who hate Muslims.