I'm sure you're probably not wrong in spirit, being a terrorist organization charter and all... but a good way to convince people you're taking out of your ass is to quote a source and have the text of the quote not be in the source.
The context is not that the Hamas charter is reasonable, it's that the sentiment that birthed the charter may have historical foundation. Just like Israeli animosity towards muslims as a whole has historical foundation.
That’s a little like saying you have to understand that Hitler’s rise was in the wake of World War 1’s devastating reparations. Or Stalin’s purges were after Nicholas II and his various misdeeds.
Everyone knows Hamas seized power about a half century after the British two-state division. And about a quarter century after the 1967 war. It also matters not one iota.
It is factually accurate to say that the economic and political aftermath of WW1 was a defining factor in Hitler's rise to power.
Saying that does not in any way endorse the despicable beliefs they espoused.
Of course it's accurate. All world events, all of them, happen in some kind of context. Everyone knows that. No one believes that there was some kind of parallel universe where Israel and Hamas were just plopped down onto a map with no history and no context. Everyone knows the context.
The problem, however, is when people say stupid shit like, "Well, we can't condemn Hamas without first discussing--..."
That's when you can stop them. You can say, actually, yes, you can condemn Hamas without caveat or whataboutism. It's a really simple thing to do. We do it all the time.
That’s when you can stop them. You can say, actually, yes, you can condemn Hamas without caveat or whataboutism.
No, no you can't. Not at an intellectually honest level of trying to resolve an issue.
How a person reacts to you is based not on just that moment in time, but everything that leads up to that moment.
You can't ignore history if you want to fix the present for a better future. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
That’s when you can stop them. You can say, actually, yes, you can condemn Hamas without caveat or whataboutism.
No, no you can’t.
I just did.
I'll do it again. I categorically condemn Hamas. There.
Everyone knows Hamas seized power about a half century after the British two-state division.
Perhaps you're not in the US, but no. This is absolutely not true. You're wildly overestimating the number of people who have a contextual understanding of this situation.
I'm an American living in Europe. In both countries, I'd say people are aware there is a context. Maybe they don't fully know what the context is, but they know there is a context.
But again, you don't need context to condemn Hamas. You might need it to understand Hamas, but you don't need it to condemn Hamas.
Again, wildly overestimating the intelligence of the average American. Especially when it comes to history of things that aren't in America. Or just history in general.
In my experience abroad, Americans have a decent handle on it, at least compared to Europeans. I've met more than one Irish person who, for example, did not know that the Six Day War ever happened.
LOL I would bet on the average European over the average US citizen any time on that question.
I don't disagree in the main, but I'd stipulate that Americans who have traveled extensively tend to be more informed than those who haven't. So it's a little more believable in the context of OP being an expatriate, and presumably associating with others of their ilk. Also, this isn't a quality unique to Americans.
Travel more.
Thanks boo. You know so much about my life and know precisely what I have and have not done. Does acting like this make you feel better? It should make you feel shame, but you may not be capable of that.
You're the one who, for ego or fake Internet points or whatever, just throws around trite stereotypes without any experience or data. Just lazy shit like, "hurp, derp, Americans dumb." It doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you're lazy and ignorant. That's fine though. You can be lazy and ignorant.
But again, you don’t need context to condemn Hamas.
You can condemn the actions, but if you want to fix the problem, then you better learn the context in which the actions take place. Otherwise it's just going to be centuries more of throwing bombs at each other.
You can condemn the actions, but if you want to fix the problem, then you better learn the context in which the actions take place.
According to Hamas, their grievance is that Jews are alive. I'm not going to address that grievance.
Otherwise it’s just going to be centuries more of throwing bombs at each other.
That seems likely, but just denying the objectives of Hamas isn't going to bring peace either. For the last 20 years, the international community has been trying to follow the Oslo and Camp David peace accords, but there's been only one even remotely interested partner.
Pretty sure the average American would struggle to find Israel on a map, let alone know that there is context to the current situation.
As an American, it's sad of me to say this, but trying to get an American to be able to tell you the location of just all 50 states in the US would be problematic.
Our education system situation has truly been downgraded for quite a while.
Those things are completely accurate and it's odd that you would bring them up as examples. In which way is it not appropriate to understand the historical context in which an event took place?
Exactly.
Imagine thinking it's wise to ignore the factors that led to the rise of fascism and believe there's nothing useful to learn from them.
It's good to understand the historical context. All for it.
What historical context doesn't do, however, is forgive the unforgivable.
I'm sure you're probably not wrong in spirit, being a terrorist organization charter and all... but a good way to convince people you're taking out of your ass is to quote a source and have the text of the quote not be in the source.
The context is not that the Hamas charter is reasonable, it's that the sentiment that birthed the charter may have historical foundation. Just like Israeli animosity towards muslims as a whole has historical foundation.
That’s a little like saying you have to understand that Hitler’s rise was in the wake of World War 1’s devastating reparations. Or Stalin’s purges were after Nicholas II and his various misdeeds.
Everyone knows Hamas seized power about a half century after the British two-state division. And about a quarter century after the 1967 war. It also matters not one iota.
It is factually accurate to say that the economic and political aftermath of WW1 was a defining factor in Hitler's rise to power.
Saying that does not in any way endorse the despicable beliefs they espoused.
Of course it's accurate. All world events, all of them, happen in some kind of context. Everyone knows that. No one believes that there was some kind of parallel universe where Israel and Hamas were just plopped down onto a map with no history and no context. Everyone knows the context.
The problem, however, is when people say stupid shit like, "Well, we can't condemn Hamas without first discussing--..."
That's when you can stop them. You can say, actually, yes, you can condemn Hamas without caveat or whataboutism. It's a really simple thing to do. We do it all the time.
No, no you can't. Not at an intellectually honest level of trying to resolve an issue.
How a person reacts to you is based not on just that moment in time, but everything that leads up to that moment.
You can't ignore history if you want to fix the present for a better future. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
I just did.
I'll do it again. I categorically condemn Hamas. There.
Perhaps you're not in the US, but no. This is absolutely not true. You're wildly overestimating the number of people who have a contextual understanding of this situation.
I'm an American living in Europe. In both countries, I'd say people are aware there is a context. Maybe they don't fully know what the context is, but they know there is a context.
But again, you don't need context to condemn Hamas. You might need it to understand Hamas, but you don't need it to condemn Hamas.
Again, wildly overestimating the intelligence of the average American. Especially when it comes to history of things that aren't in America. Or just history in general.
In my experience abroad, Americans have a decent handle on it, at least compared to Europeans. I've met more than one Irish person who, for example, did not know that the Six Day War ever happened.
LOL I would bet on the average European over the average US citizen any time on that question.
I don't disagree in the main, but I'd stipulate that Americans who have traveled extensively tend to be more informed than those who haven't. So it's a little more believable in the context of OP being an expatriate, and presumably associating with others of their ilk. Also, this isn't a quality unique to Americans.
Travel more.
Thanks boo. You know so much about my life and know precisely what I have and have not done. Does acting like this make you feel better? It should make you feel shame, but you may not be capable of that.
You're the one who, for ego or fake Internet points or whatever, just throws around trite stereotypes without any experience or data. Just lazy shit like, "hurp, derp, Americans dumb." It doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you're lazy and ignorant. That's fine though. You can be lazy and ignorant.
Whatever is going on is projection. I'm out.
Are you addressing the entirety of the US population with this comment?
Yes, Americans should travel more. You have no idea where the person you replied to has been.
I'm addressing only the person I replied to.
Read the final sentence of my previous comment.
You can condemn the actions, but if you want to fix the problem, then you better learn the context in which the actions take place. Otherwise it's just going to be centuries more of throwing bombs at each other.
According to Hamas, their grievance is that Jews are alive. I'm not going to address that grievance.
That seems likely, but just denying the objectives of Hamas isn't going to bring peace either. For the last 20 years, the international community has been trying to follow the Oslo and Camp David peace accords, but there's been only one even remotely interested partner.
Pretty sure the average American would struggle to find Israel on a map, let alone know that there is context to the current situation.
As an American, it's sad of me to say this, but trying to get an American to be able to tell you the location of just all 50 states in the US would be problematic.
Our education system situation has truly been downgraded for quite a while.
Those things are completely accurate and it's odd that you would bring them up as examples. In which way is it not appropriate to understand the historical context in which an event took place?
Exactly.
Imagine thinking it's wise to ignore the factors that led to the rise of fascism and believe there's nothing useful to learn from them.
It's good to understand the historical context. All for it.
What historical context doesn't do, however, is forgive the unforgivable.