Given how fast China can progress when they put their minds to it, this is worrying.
Well, when you’ve spent the past 20 years stealing intellectual property and conducting industrial espionage is it really that hard to get to this point?
Actually they were just exchanging their cheap labour and garbage disposal for the West's collective greed. So its only fair they return in kind.
Given how fast China can progress when they put theirour minds to it, this is worrying.
I dunno, stealing intellectual property from companies strikes me as a victimless crime.
But more than that, it's the only way for poor countries to work their way out of poverty. We hold the profitable ends of the value chain, developing countries are left holding the unprofitable middle, and we won't provide any of the know-how needed to work the more profitable parts.
Either we willingly include technology transfer as part of globalisation, or we whine about 'IP theft'. Because we can't expect poor countries to willingly stay poor to benefit us.
China is the second largest economy in the world, nobody is whining about Ethiopia borrowing ideas to feed people.
They weren't 20 years ago though.
Well then by your logic, why are they still doing it today, now more than ever, if it’s just a way out of poverty? Hmm 🤔
I never said it's just a way out of poverty, the world is more complex than that.
But to address your point China is still a developing country. It's also a rich country. It's weird.
Chinese companies compete with US companies, so of course they steal from them. Just like US companies steal from their competitors. When our companies do it, they just call it competitive intelligence.
No, I’m afraid not. In America there are laws against stealing shit, look at what happened to the Apple Watch over the past few weeks. Or the billions Adobe paid to look at Figma’s IP.
I hope you spend decades creating something new and exciting only to have someone else come along and steal it. I’m sure you’ll shrug it off 🤷 and say they were just competing (since now you’ve said it’s not poverty driven).
What’s the next goalpost you’re going to move?
Wait so because two major US companies were caught stealing IP US companies don't steal?
Edit:
spend decades creating something new and exciting only to have someone else come along and steal it
After already making millions on it, being the first to market, developing a prestigious position - I'd be fine.
U.S. companies don’t steal
You made this dumb claim, not me.
And the point was there are steep consequences to stealing. Unlike China parading around like they’re some kind of divine power when they just steal shit all day long.
Sorry if I misunderstood your argument, I said that US companies also steal and you said "no, I'm afraid not". I'm not sure why you brought up enforcement or consequences? As I said I don't think it's a crime with any real negative consequence, so the differences in US and Chinese punishments don't seem relevant.
Stealing IP is victimless up to a point: At the point where companies that pay for innovation are out-competed by companies that just steal this innovations, everyone that wants technological progress is a victim. This is why I have an issue with companies like Huawei blatantly stealing IP. We wouldn't have the tech we rely on today if not for someone eating the cost of innovation, turning a profit, and seeing continued innovation as a viable business strategy.
Yeah, I get that. That totally makes sense.
However, it only makes sense up to a total point. When it gets to the bizarre situation that even trivial things are patented, and cannot be used, ever again, then IP stops being meaningful. IIRC the scrollbar in browsers used as such an example.
Like, IP, if used a little bit of it, helps innovation. But if the IP laws are too strict, it turns into the opposite, and hinders innovation.
Given the way corporations in the United States have taken advantage of the American people I'm fine with saying IP theft isn't victimless but I'm glad it's happening to these corporations. If they want American citizens to care they need to start treating American citizens better. Until then I'm fully in support of China fucking over every American corporation.
I'm not sad China is stealing IP from billionaires who are hoarding their wealth. If those billionaires want American citizens to care then share more of the profits.
I love it when the apologists’ friends show up, when you guys can’t argue the high ground any more you just take aim at everyone else
You think coming to the defense of billion dollar corporations is the moral high ground? How much boot are you licking?
You lost the argument, time to redirect redirect redirect!
What argument? I just said I don't care if China is stealing from these corporations.
They don’t have the EUV machines needed to make the most modern chips. Only DUV so far.
Huawei recently released a phone with an SoC using that tech. So they have it in some capacity.
Given how fast China can progress when they put their minds to it, this is worrying.
Well, when you’ve spent the past 20 years stealing intellectual property and conducting industrial espionage is it really that hard to get to this point?
Actually they were just exchanging their cheap labour and garbage disposal for the West's collective greed. So its only fair they return in kind.
I dunno, stealing intellectual property from companies strikes me as a victimless crime.
But more than that, it's the only way for poor countries to work their way out of poverty. We hold the profitable ends of the value chain, developing countries are left holding the unprofitable middle, and we won't provide any of the know-how needed to work the more profitable parts.
Either we willingly include technology transfer as part of globalisation, or we whine about 'IP theft'. Because we can't expect poor countries to willingly stay poor to benefit us.
China is the second largest economy in the world, nobody is whining about Ethiopia borrowing ideas to feed people.
They weren't 20 years ago though.
Well then by your logic, why are they still doing it today, now more than ever, if it’s just a way out of poverty? Hmm 🤔
I never said it's just a way out of poverty, the world is more complex than that.
But to address your point China is still a developing country. It's also a rich country. It's weird.
Chinese companies compete with US companies, so of course they steal from them. Just like US companies steal from their competitors. When our companies do it, they just call it competitive intelligence.
No, I’m afraid not. In America there are laws against stealing shit, look at what happened to the Apple Watch over the past few weeks. Or the billions Adobe paid to look at Figma’s IP.
I hope you spend decades creating something new and exciting only to have someone else come along and steal it. I’m sure you’ll shrug it off 🤷 and say they were just competing (since now you’ve said it’s not poverty driven).
What’s the next goalpost you’re going to move?
Wait so because two major US companies were caught stealing IP US companies don't steal?
Edit:
After already making millions on it, being the first to market, developing a prestigious position - I'd be fine.
You made this dumb claim, not me.
And the point was there are steep consequences to stealing. Unlike China parading around like they’re some kind of divine power when they just steal shit all day long.
Sorry if I misunderstood your argument, I said that US companies also steal and you said "no, I'm afraid not". I'm not sure why you brought up enforcement or consequences? As I said I don't think it's a crime with any real negative consequence, so the differences in US and Chinese punishments don't seem relevant.
Stealing IP is victimless up to a point: At the point where companies that pay for innovation are out-competed by companies that just steal this innovations, everyone that wants technological progress is a victim. This is why I have an issue with companies like Huawei blatantly stealing IP. We wouldn't have the tech we rely on today if not for someone eating the cost of innovation, turning a profit, and seeing continued innovation as a viable business strategy.
Yeah, I get that. That totally makes sense.
However, it only makes sense up to a total point. When it gets to the bizarre situation that even trivial things are patented, and cannot be used, ever again, then IP stops being meaningful. IIRC the scrollbar in browsers used as such an example.
Like, IP, if used a little bit of it, helps innovation. But if the IP laws are too strict, it turns into the opposite, and hinders innovation.
Given the way corporations in the United States have taken advantage of the American people I'm fine with saying IP theft isn't victimless but I'm glad it's happening to these corporations. If they want American citizens to care they need to start treating American citizens better. Until then I'm fully in support of China fucking over every American corporation.
I'm not sad China is stealing IP from billionaires who are hoarding their wealth. If those billionaires want American citizens to care then share more of the profits.
I love it when the apologists’ friends show up, when you guys can’t argue the high ground any more you just take aim at everyone else
You think coming to the defense of billion dollar corporations is the moral high ground? How much boot are you licking?
You lost the argument, time to redirect redirect redirect!
What argument? I just said I don't care if China is stealing from these corporations.
They don’t have the EUV machines needed to make the most modern chips. Only DUV so far.
Huawei recently released a phone with an SoC using that tech. So they have it in some capacity.