If we continue to tip as a wage subsidy, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?
you are proposing that if we all stop tipping, companies will be motivated to pay their workers; you are correct, this is what would happen if we all stopped tipping at the same time.
this process is known as collective action. it is incredibly important to remember that collective action only works when it actually happens. in other words, your individual action of not tipping your waiter is ONLY beneficial to your waiter if you can make sure one else tips either.
do you have this power? (i think you don’t; if you do i beg of you to exercise it lol.)
now consider who actually holds the power here. at any point, your restaurant’s owner could institute a no-tip policy, thereby ensuring that no one has to tip, ever. several restaurants already have done this, and it works. now, you might (correctly) note that this may gives an unfair advantage to other competing restaurants who do not implement no-tip policy. this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.
so there’s kind of this imbalance, where yeah technically it’s possible for us as eaters of food to “fix” the tipping problem, but its way way easier for the people in charge (whether that’s government or owners) to fix it, because they have the power of coordination on their side.
tldr, tip your waiters and advocate for anti-tipping policies if you want to maximize long term benefits for everyone.
benefits for everyone.
No, not benefits for everyone. Servers will never get a wage that's equivalent to the tips they get now. Never.
Go survey servers on the subject and see what they think.
I'm not necessarily against no tipping areas, but I'm not going to act like it benefits the workers. It's more of a crab bucket mentality where we bring the better paying low-skill job in line with all the rest.
I agree with you, actually. If you don't want to tip, fine, don't tip. But don't go to a restaurant and then not tip, either, because not only are you still giving the company money, you're shortchanging the actual person you want to help.
We are not short changing anyone. A tip isn't a guaranteed income from working.
Also, it's halrious that you agreed with the previous person, then instantly renegged and said the opposite and went back to he same garbage you said before.
Tipping culture is wrong. Never tip, stop begging.
I think their point is being missed.
In the USA at least in restaurants most servers work for tips. That’s 99.99% of their pay.
They’re saying that unfortunately because of a tipping culture you’re taking part in exploiting the worker unless you tip.
Businesses now adding tipping to POS for other stuff is their attempt to shift responsibility for paying their worker into you.
I think the dude you’re replying to is mixing their messages some.
Thanks for the clarification. I sometimes get tunnel vision and forget people live in places with different laws and regulations. Yes, I'm specifically talking about US states where it's legal to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour because tips make up the rest of federal minimum wage.
I'm bad with words. Thank you
I'm not contradicting myself. All of my points can coexist.
If you don't want to tip, fine, stop tipping.
If you go out to eat, tip your staff.
If you want the tipping culture to change, stop going out.
You're correct, a tip is not guaranteed income, that's the entire problem. I don't understand why what I'm saying is so hard to understand. The company will only make up for lost tips for a waiter for so long before they're fired. Continuing to go out to eat and then not tipping changes nothing, it just makes the waitstaff's lives harder.
If everyone today stopped tipping, do you think companies would suddenly begin to pay more? I'd wager that wage increases start with the waiting staff, and ends there. Why are you pushing the responsibility onto the customer?
I'm not pushing the responsibility anywhere. If anything, I think it's the government's responsibility to take the tipping loophole out of minimum wage laws.
If everyone today stopped tipping, do you think companies would suddenly begin to pay more?
They won't... And this is the point... Whether customers tip or don't doesn't matter. If we all collectively stopped tipping wait staff would still be the ones hit. It takes the wait staff collectively quitting/protesting to cause restaurants to change their ways... Or management of those restaurants. The consumer in this case means nothing.
The hostility is entirely unnecessary. If you eat out and don't tip, the only person you're hurting is the person you claim to want to help. If you can't tip, eat at home. If you can, then do so while still fighting for better workers rights. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.
But this is specific to sit down restaurants. Do I tip when all I receive is counter service? Or take out?
If you're picking it up yourself, I think tipping is unnecessary. If it's being delivered, I always make a point to save enough for a tip.
Who said I go out to eat to help others? What?!
If we don’t tip, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?
Employees who won't be able to make a living will go elsewhere. it's not easy and instant, but eventually if a restaraunt can't staff itself, it will collapse.
We should absolutely not be subsidizing restaraunt owners who are only keeping a float by paying low wages. if they can't afford to properly pay their staff, they don't deserve to operate.
Employees who won’t be able to make a living will go elsewhere. it’s not easy and instant, but eventually if a restaraunt can’t staff itself, it will collapse.
Then why not skip the step of customers choosing to tip at all? Why wouldn't wait staff just protest/quit to get better wages? Wait staff collective bargaining is > than consumers collective bargaining simply because it's a smaller population that's easier to get together under a shared premise. The reality is that nearly every waiter/waitress I've talked to about it PREFER the current tip structure. They make more money.
Years ago when I first started out working, I also preferred it. I could walk home with a pocket full of cash well above minimum wage if the night was good.
If we continue to tip as a wage subsidy, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?
you are proposing that if we all stop tipping, companies will be motivated to pay their workers; you are correct, this is what would happen if we all stopped tipping at the same time.
this process is known as collective action. it is incredibly important to remember that collective action only works when it actually happens. in other words, your individual action of not tipping your waiter is ONLY beneficial to your waiter if you can make sure one else tips either.
do you have this power? (i think you don’t; if you do i beg of you to exercise it lol.)
now consider who actually holds the power here. at any point, your restaurant’s owner could institute a no-tip policy, thereby ensuring that no one has to tip, ever. several restaurants already have done this, and it works. now, you might (correctly) note that this may gives an unfair advantage to other competing restaurants who do not implement no-tip policy. this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.
so there’s kind of this imbalance, where yeah technically it’s possible for us as eaters of food to “fix” the tipping problem, but its way way easier for the people in charge (whether that’s government or owners) to fix it, because they have the power of coordination on their side.
tldr, tip your waiters and advocate for anti-tipping policies if you want to maximize long term benefits for everyone.
No, not benefits for everyone. Servers will never get a wage that's equivalent to the tips they get now. Never.
Go survey servers on the subject and see what they think.
I'm not necessarily against no tipping areas, but I'm not going to act like it benefits the workers. It's more of a crab bucket mentality where we bring the better paying low-skill job in line with all the rest.
I agree with you, actually. If you don't want to tip, fine, don't tip. But don't go to a restaurant and then not tip, either, because not only are you still giving the company money, you're shortchanging the actual person you want to help.
We are not short changing anyone. A tip isn't a guaranteed income from working.
Also, it's halrious that you agreed with the previous person, then instantly renegged and said the opposite and went back to he same garbage you said before.
Tipping culture is wrong. Never tip, stop begging.
I think their point is being missed.
In the USA at least in restaurants most servers work for tips. That’s 99.99% of their pay.
They’re saying that unfortunately because of a tipping culture you’re taking part in exploiting the worker unless you tip.
Businesses now adding tipping to POS for other stuff is their attempt to shift responsibility for paying their worker into you.
I think the dude you’re replying to is mixing their messages some.
Thanks for the clarification. I sometimes get tunnel vision and forget people live in places with different laws and regulations. Yes, I'm specifically talking about US states where it's legal to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour because tips make up the rest of federal minimum wage.
I'm bad with words. Thank you
I'm not contradicting myself. All of my points can coexist.
You're correct, a tip is not guaranteed income, that's the entire problem. I don't understand why what I'm saying is so hard to understand. The company will only make up for lost tips for a waiter for so long before they're fired. Continuing to go out to eat and then not tipping changes nothing, it just makes the waitstaff's lives harder.
If everyone today stopped tipping, do you think companies would suddenly begin to pay more? I'd wager that wage increases start with the waiting staff, and ends there. Why are you pushing the responsibility onto the customer?
I'm not pushing the responsibility anywhere. If anything, I think it's the government's responsibility to take the tipping loophole out of minimum wage laws.
They won't... And this is the point... Whether customers tip or don't doesn't matter. If we all collectively stopped tipping wait staff would still be the ones hit. It takes the wait staff collectively quitting/protesting to cause restaurants to change their ways... Or management of those restaurants. The consumer in this case means nothing.
The hostility is entirely unnecessary. If you eat out and don't tip, the only person you're hurting is the person you claim to want to help. If you can't tip, eat at home. If you can, then do so while still fighting for better workers rights. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.
But this is specific to sit down restaurants. Do I tip when all I receive is counter service? Or take out?
If you're picking it up yourself, I think tipping is unnecessary. If it's being delivered, I always make a point to save enough for a tip.
Who said I go out to eat to help others? What?!
If we don’t tip, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?
Employees who won't be able to make a living will go elsewhere. it's not easy and instant, but eventually if a restaraunt can't staff itself, it will collapse.
We should absolutely not be subsidizing restaraunt owners who are only keeping a float by paying low wages. if they can't afford to properly pay their staff, they don't deserve to operate.
Then why not skip the step of customers choosing to tip at all? Why wouldn't wait staff just protest/quit to get better wages? Wait staff collective bargaining is > than consumers collective bargaining simply because it's a smaller population that's easier to get together under a shared premise. The reality is that nearly every waiter/waitress I've talked to about it PREFER the current tip structure. They make more money.
Years ago when I first started out working, I also preferred it. I could walk home with a pocket full of cash well above minimum wage if the night was good.