Yes, but one way is on the company first and one isn't. Would prices go up if these places were paying living wages? Most likely. Many businesses would be insolvent because their business model was simply never designed to pay a living wage to employees. Others could remain solvent, but probably not if they continue to take so much off the top at higher positions.
And that's exactly it: the market never self-corrects if we throw arbitrary money in excess of listed prices to solve was is ultimately an issue of business solvency and ethics. There is no economic theory that would support such an idea in any industry, but here we are.
The sheer number of businesses out of the space might even drive down rents. That's the kind of thing I mean by "other actions". But things cannot continue as they are.
None of this is even to mention the sheer number of people in the service industry who are also on government assistance programs. They have to be -- none of the blame is on them. But my tax dollars go to that, plus I am expected to pay extra to subsidize their wages with tips. I effectively subsidize them twice while someone reaps the rewards on their yacht. All I'm saying is the yacht people should be taking the risks first. That's part of being a business owner.
Dude, everyone understands the tipping system, the market isn't gonna correct if it goes away because you'll still be paying the exact same amount.
I'm not sure what isn't getting across here.
Customers subsidize wages with tipping. The amount is ultimately arbitrary and allows business owners to avoid costs.
The actual cost of the wages is not arbitrary and should be put up by the business first.
You're wrong. Is that clear enough?
Great argument.
Better than yours. The wordiness don't make it true.
Show me on the doll where the free market hurt you.
I think you're confused, I'm not the one complaining.
Let's see what Lemmy thinks.
I don't think a lot of Lemmy understands it doesn't matter how you are subsidizing the wages, you're doing it regardless. Like this clown who thinks food will be cheaper if more cash goes through the owner to the waiter instead of straight to the waiter. Regardless of system the customer is paying for everything, not the owner, unless of course his business is failing. Imagine the entitlement required to desire everyone change their model to make things cheaper for you, at a business that is completely a luxury. You could simply learn to cook instead of whining about tipping.
You could simply learn to cook instead of whining about tipping.
Well I guess the whole restaurant industry doesn't need to exist then.
Reductio ad absurdum.
I literally said it's a (unnecessary) luxury so who is being absurd? You? Yes.
This is not true. I've visited the USA multiple times and I've gotten tipping wrong every time.
the market isn't gonna correct if it goes away because you'll still be paying the exact same amount.
This is also not really true. You look at a menu in Australia and the price you see is the exact amount you pay. $20 lunch is $20 on the bill. No added tips or taxes or anything.
For the customer, this system is better.
Saying that same lunch in the USA would 'have been $14 on the menu in the USA' would not match my experience. In fact, prices for most things were in the same rough ballpark once the exchange rate was factored in.
Caveat: my last visit was 10 years ago. My experience may be out of date. 15% was considered a normal tip, then.
I'm sorry you're a moron, and I don't take financial advice from people who can't figure out something as simple as tipping protocol. And quit lying, food is definitely cheaper on average in the states, and greater quantity too.
The food is pumped with filler trash, so the quantity is definitely there, but the prices aren't as cheap as you think, especially for what you're getting.
Are you a foreign to the USA trucker who spent a good portion of the last 7 years south of the border? No? I am, and know exactly what I'm talking about, intimately familiar with farm/ranch end prices and also wholesale prices as I now own a restaurant. I'm the rare person who's worked at every end of the food industry and the middle too, as well as being a frequent customer in 22 states and 8 provinces. and very familiar with currency conversions from all the commodity rates, shipping and ordering. Meanwhile you are some fucking guy saying "nuh uh" who likely needs to go to wikipedia to try describe current American farm subsidy policy.
Oh look, an Aussie that needs you know that. Yes yes, everything is better there, it has to be, why else would y'all spend so much time trying to convince everyone of it.
Tipping does still suck though, and the way it is in many states of the US, slow business literally means employees get paid less, which is pretty fucked.
Australia certainly isn't perfect, and don't let anyone tell you how great Medicare is here because it's not what it uses to be and slowly but surely slipping into private health insurance hell due to its languishing, but heck, defensive much mate?
I am glad that I don't have to deal with tipping. Tipping is trash and seemingly many Americans agree it's trash.
Not defensive, I really don't care for Australians, they've a way of conducting themselves that I find very fucking irritating. New Zealanders i can get along with.
I'm sorry for my place of birth, and I'm sorry for liking the fact I don't have to tip because of my place of birth, I guess?
This is just a strange internet interaction, but may I suggest not letting people you're not a fan of them because of their nationality?
It's on the customer either way
Yes, but one way is on the company first and one isn't. Would prices go up if these places were paying living wages? Most likely. Many businesses would be insolvent because their business model was simply never designed to pay a living wage to employees. Others could remain solvent, but probably not if they continue to take so much off the top at higher positions.
And that's exactly it: the market never self-corrects if we throw arbitrary money in excess of listed prices to solve was is ultimately an issue of business solvency and ethics. There is no economic theory that would support such an idea in any industry, but here we are.
The sheer number of businesses out of the space might even drive down rents. That's the kind of thing I mean by "other actions". But things cannot continue as they are.
None of this is even to mention the sheer number of people in the service industry who are also on government assistance programs. They have to be -- none of the blame is on them. But my tax dollars go to that, plus I am expected to pay extra to subsidize their wages with tips. I effectively subsidize them twice while someone reaps the rewards on their yacht. All I'm saying is the yacht people should be taking the risks first. That's part of being a business owner.
Dude, everyone understands the tipping system, the market isn't gonna correct if it goes away because you'll still be paying the exact same amount.
I'm not sure what isn't getting across here.
Customers subsidize wages with tipping. The amount is ultimately arbitrary and allows business owners to avoid costs.
The actual cost of the wages is not arbitrary and should be put up by the business first.
You're wrong. Is that clear enough?
Great argument.
Better than yours. The wordiness don't make it true.
Show me on the doll where the free market hurt you.
I think you're confused, I'm not the one complaining.
Let's see what Lemmy thinks.
I don't think a lot of Lemmy understands it doesn't matter how you are subsidizing the wages, you're doing it regardless. Like this clown who thinks food will be cheaper if more cash goes through the owner to the waiter instead of straight to the waiter. Regardless of system the customer is paying for everything, not the owner, unless of course his business is failing. Imagine the entitlement required to desire everyone change their model to make things cheaper for you, at a business that is completely a luxury. You could simply learn to cook instead of whining about tipping.
Well I guess the whole restaurant industry doesn't need to exist then.
Reductio ad absurdum.
I literally said it's a (unnecessary) luxury so who is being absurd? You? Yes.
This is not true. I've visited the USA multiple times and I've gotten tipping wrong every time.
This is also not really true. You look at a menu in Australia and the price you see is the exact amount you pay. $20 lunch is $20 on the bill. No added tips or taxes or anything.
For the customer, this system is better.
Saying that same lunch in the USA would 'have been $14 on the menu in the USA' would not match my experience. In fact, prices for most things were in the same rough ballpark once the exchange rate was factored in.
Caveat: my last visit was 10 years ago. My experience may be out of date. 15% was considered a normal tip, then.
I'm sorry you're a moron, and I don't take financial advice from people who can't figure out something as simple as tipping protocol. And quit lying, food is definitely cheaper on average in the states, and greater quantity too.
The food is pumped with filler trash, so the quantity is definitely there, but the prices aren't as cheap as you think, especially for what you're getting.
Are you a foreign to the USA trucker who spent a good portion of the last 7 years south of the border? No? I am, and know exactly what I'm talking about, intimately familiar with farm/ranch end prices and also wholesale prices as I now own a restaurant. I'm the rare person who's worked at every end of the food industry and the middle too, as well as being a frequent customer in 22 states and 8 provinces. and very familiar with currency conversions from all the commodity rates, shipping and ordering. Meanwhile you are some fucking guy saying "nuh uh" who likely needs to go to wikipedia to try describe current American farm subsidy policy.
The difference is that on slow nights, staff get paid less, which is fucked up.
The business needs to wear the cost, because they reap the rewards, which is the narrative capitalism supposedly is about.
Tipping sucks, I'm glad we don't have it in Australia.
another difference, like it or not, is that tipping allows for discrimination.
Black service providers are tipped disproportionately less than white service providers.
Oh look, an Aussie that needs you know that. Yes yes, everything is better there, it has to be, why else would y'all spend so much time trying to convince everyone of it.
Tipping does still suck though, and the way it is in many states of the US, slow business literally means employees get paid less, which is pretty fucked.
Australia certainly isn't perfect, and don't let anyone tell you how great Medicare is here because it's not what it uses to be and slowly but surely slipping into private health insurance hell due to its languishing, but heck, defensive much mate?
I am glad that I don't have to deal with tipping. Tipping is trash and seemingly many Americans agree it's trash.
Not defensive, I really don't care for Australians, they've a way of conducting themselves that I find very fucking irritating. New Zealanders i can get along with.
I'm sorry for my place of birth, and I'm sorry for liking the fact I don't have to tip because of my place of birth, I guess?
This is just a strange internet interaction, but may I suggest not letting people you're not a fan of them because of their nationality?
Nah. Yall are cunts and I don't like you.