Voters don’t have a clue about how much worse Trump’s second term would be
mozz@mbin.grits.dev to 
inquirer.com
This BTW is how you involve in the story the reality of what the voters think, which is an important portion of election coverage, while still upholding your basic journalistic responsibility to communicate to people what's actually going on.
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Not while they’re so plugged into the gEnOcIDe jOe trolls that suggest people not vote.
I've only seen a couple encouraging people not to vote. Most of the folks pissed off at Biden for supporting genocide are still planning on voting for him - the genocide situation would be WAY worse under Trump. One of the reasons we're so pissed off (y'know, just in case genocide isn't reason enough by itself) is that Biden doing this WILL discourage his potential voters, and could very well be the thing that hands Trump the presidency. Those potential voters are going to be influenced by Biden's actions, not internet trolls.
The criticism Biden's getting about his support for genocide is constructive and necessary, cuz he needs to fucking stop!
And just in case it needs to be said: VOTE BIDEN. Regardless of how he handles Isreal. If Trump takes power again, Palestine is fucked, Ukraine is fucked, Taiwan is fucked, your rights and neighbors are fucked, the climate is fucked (well, faster than it already is, at least), our democracy is fucked... this is not hyperbole: seriously, vote for the guy the has the best shot against Trump, and that guy is Biden.
There’s a LOT of them here I’ve debated with them and tried reasoning with them like everyone else has. They’re either total lost causes, or right-wing trolls.
Either way, their message is the same.
I've seen these people pop up a lot here, too.
I just assumed that this is the flavor of far-right influencing campaigns we get to see on Lemmy. Since the normal "far-right and Russia good, liberals and EU/Democrats bad because {manliness/financial elite/globalism/cabal}" angle is pretty much a lost cause here, the next best thing they can do is reduce turnout via resignation and bitterness.
That's exactly what it is. The best way to get the left to stay home is focusing on ideological purity. They'll suggest Biden isn't a true leftist therefore you're not upholding your morals if you vote for him. Then say if you do still feel the need to vote pick Cornell West or Jill Stein. It's so obvious I have about a dozen accounts tagged now. It's even the same tactic foreign influence used in 2016.
> They’ll suggest Biden isn’t a true leftist therefore you’re not upholding your morals if you vote for him.
biden isn't a leftist at all
Spot on observation I’d say. I’ve had the unfortunate experience in dealing with them for quite a while now and I’d say not one has shown any evidence to support an argument against what you’re saying.
I think they’re almost all trolls. There tend to be little weirdnesses or inconsistencies in their stories if you really look at where they say they’re coming from and compare it to what they’re doing and saying. And their heart’s not really in it. There tend to be like 1 or 2 things they like to say about any given situation, and then once they’ve got their talking points in, it’s just content-free rudeness or sudden silence or them changing the subject to something else. Usually people who are interested enough in politics to talk about it to strangers on the internet have some sort of learned knowledge base in it even if it’s a little shallow or one-sided. With them it’s literally “Rail strike, union buster, QED, next topic pls.”
Trying to “win” a debate with them is obviously pure futility but I actually think it’s good for the discourse to have them around spouting this stuff for as long as they’re going to do such a crappy job at it. It’s like a politics version of Cunningham’s Law.
> There tend to be little weirdnesses or inconsistencies in their stories if you really look at where they say they’re coming from and compare it to what they’re doing and saying. And their heart’s not really in it.
can you explain this more?
How do you feel about American foreign policy in Central and South America?
So VERY well played! Damn that was well done man.
Bravo!
One of them shows up to start winding into their typical propaganda bullshit and you shut it down with a single question.
Beautifully done.
calling me a troll doesn't explain what they are talking about, but it is a personal attack.
I’ve been warned about you enough times to know not to engage. Go away.
>I’ve been warned about you
i don't know what that means, but if you make personal attacks, you should expect pushback.
Go away.
Holy shit you broke him my dude 😂
this is a non sequitur.
No particular opinion about it you want to share?
I would think as a person with opinions so strong about geopolitics and America's role in the world, that you'd be okay with enabling Hitler 2.0 to come to power in your own country because of them... you'd have some kind of opinion on it, even if it wasn't directly relatable to any current election going on just right at this moment.
Just one of those little mysteries, I guess.
>No particular opinion about it you want to share?
no. this is a red herring, and doesn't explain what you meant at all.
I think it does though.
>you'd be okay with enabling Hitler 2.0
that's a lie
Wait, have I misunderstood? Who are you planning to vote for / do you think people should vote for in the general election in November?
>Who are you planning to vote for
frankly i havent decided yet
i've been giving money to cornel west, but jill stein said the greens could hit 5% this year
Ah. So somehow we've meandered our way back around from Central and South America to "Voting is a waste of time; I as a good left-wing person am going to vote third party and here's why."
Welp, now that we've had that blistering rebuttal to what I was saying about how the shills operate, I have to get on with my day. All the best, love and kisses.
>Ah. So somehow we've meandered our way back around from Central and South America
you mean i didn't take teh bait on your nonsequitur
no one is saying don't vote, but plenty of people have told me my vote won't count
Many people on lemmy are saying don’t vote. It’s not up for debate as anyone can see them factually suggesting this. And you know it.
You’re being purposefully obtuse.
>Many people on lemmy are saying don’t vote.
if that were true, you would be able to show it.
Dude, I’m not entertaining your bad faith nonsense. Go pester someone else.
your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith
Go away. I know what you’re trying to do.
all I'm doing is correcting the record
There’s no record to correct. Everyone is well aware of the anti-voting campaign on lemmy, it’s pretty well documented, and there’s entire posts dedicated to the topic. So I’ve nothing to prove to you about it.
It’s plain as day to see, and my refusal to entertain your nonsense is not evidence to the contrary.
Now go away.
I did a search and couldn't find any evidence of it except people claiming it exists, or refuting that claim.
Sorry you’re having such bad luck. I guess you’ll just have to disagree and just move on.
Good luck.
i linked the search, but you seem to want to ignore it. anyone reading this can see that.
Don’t really care. What I say is true. There are tons of anti-Biden trolls in lemmy. That you seem to be so adamantly denying it says an awful lot.
https://lemmy.world/search?q=don%27t+vote&type=All&listingType=All&page=1&sort=New
I know that .world is defederated from some big instances, but I don't think what you're saying is true. I went back three days.
lol…. Okay man. Whatever you say.
If you're angry that Joe Biden has Genocide attached to his name, maybe push him to stop being an active part of it. It also doesn't help Biden isn't offering any message of hope. It is just once again I'm not the other guy. It is more effective to give people things to vote for than against.
I put together a short list of the unprecedented things Biden has done domestically that make him a good choice to lead the country, although "not the end of democracy" would be a good enough reason to vote for him over Trump anyway.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm just as disgusted that he's enabling genocide in Gaza as most people. I carry a certain amount of hope that he's going to stop, and I'm extremely in favor of the Ukraine and Israel aid bills being brought up as separate bills as they are now being brought up as. But let's see what the historically-Israel-supporting-no-matter-what rich fucks in congress do with it.
Oh look, here’s one of them now!
Trump declared he would finish the job, as in complete the genocide, so I hope you won't help that happen. At least Biden is trying to give some relief to Palestinians. Being on Israel's side is US policy: they are our ally, for better or worse, for good or bad reasons. Personally, I think we should drop or reduce that alliance, but I'm not in charge.