You can't expect a sitting President to not re-run for office. Of course Biden is going to run.
In Trump's mind, and in the minds of a lot of his supporters, he is the "rightful" sitting President, so of course he's going to run too.
Are they the BEST choices? Of course not. But they are THE choices.
Well… yeah you can. Why can’t you?
Huh? You find it unreasonable that someone sitting in the most powerful elected position on the planet, with the opportunity to extend that seat, would choose to run again???
When he’s 81 and unpopular, yes
No, that's an external view. That's your view.
The comment, the point, is about his perspective.
Yes, in his perspective he should look at himself and say “wow, I shouldn’t run again”. He did not, because he likes the power and pats on the back the Democratic Party gives him for clinging to life
Miss.
He clearly believes, or wants, to run again. Source? He's running again.
In YOUR perspective he should look in the mirror and say "wow I shouldn't run again".
I share your perspective, but that ship has sailed. What democrat is next? The work of building a new candidate needs to start yesterday.
Oh you were just being pedantic.
Yes, I dunno. Hopefully the next one can actually rope me in.
I wasn't, I was being clear, from the beginning and you were being emotionally driven.
Let me guess, computer programmer?
Biden? Naw I doubt he's very good with computers
you can't expect him to, no.
you can WANT him to. you can be pleasantly surprised if he does.
but expect him to? come on.
You can expect it if you want to. You can expect whatever you want. It's just your expectations won't mirror reality.
If your friends won't expect then you can leave your friends behind
I guess so. I just hope the Democratic Party know that their expectations for me to vote for Joe Biden again won’t mirror reality
Because nobody tells someone at that power level what to do.
They can choose, on their own, not to run like Johnson did in 1968. But no outside influence can or should tell a President they can't run.
If you think no one tells Joe Biden what he should be doing on the daily you might be more demented than he is.
"should do" and "to do" are two entirely different things. :)
Well… they also do that.
Also, even taking that statement as literal - is that supposed to be a good thing? “Despite his staff and advisors urging him to not run again, in a bid for power he is again!”
It's not "in a bid for power", it's to block Trump. If Trump weren't running Biden would likely dust off his hands, go "My work here is done!" and quietly retire at the end of his term.
If something happened to take Trump out of the race, especially between now and the conventions in July and August, I think Biden would bow out, but he won't as long as Trump is around.
I simply don’t believe that Biden is the most electable person in the country against Trump lol
He's the only person who's already beaten him.
Well, I guess we’ll have to see if he can do it again. I don’t bemoan people for voting for him, but he doesn’t have mine
so you're voting for Trump? effectively or directly?
No, I’m just voting third party.
that's what I said. you're effectively voting for Trump.
You don't understand how the voting system in the USA works, obviously, which is a shame.
I look forward to preferential/ ranked voting coming in, but until that day, you're a fucking retard.
How is it that there are all these people who have nothing to do with political office in their daily lives who know all the personal conversations and thoughts of the inner circles of the presidency?
Are you unaware of the extremely basic fact that essentially every president in US history has relied incredibly strongly on a wide team of advisors and cabinet members.
They teach you that in middle school civics. Did you think the presidency was like in a movie where it’s just one guy who decides to do everything he does? Do you think Biden sits there with a calculator running the numbers??
Certain flanks of the party saying he shouldn't but not putting up anyone who should is hardly a consensus, plus to assume it's 'a bid for power', like some kind of movie super villain here, totally not like something someone who would try and prevent congressional certification of the election would do.
I do tire of these threads, 'Trump is evil incarnate and must be stopped by... scattering votes for the only viably running candidate all over the map?'.
I thought the whole point of having a democracy was people got to choose their leaders.
If you're saying leaders become too powerful to reject, that's troubling.
The people had the opportunity to choose during the primary whether they wanted to vote for someone else who holds mostly similar views (e.g. the same political party) to their own, or the person currently doing the job. There weren't a lot of people from the same political party that offered themselves up as challengers to the person currently doing the job, for a variety of reasons. Our system heavily favors the person currently doing the job in our primary elections, but challenges have been made before, just not this time.
Reject no, this is about Biden choosing to run
You get to choose, between the Republican nominee and the Democratic nominee.
If you vote Libertarian, you are helping Biden by taking away a Trump vote.
If you vote Green, you are helping Trump by taking away a Biden vote.
To clarify, the above wasn't some kind of rhetorical question. I'm not American and am not asking for voting guidance.
You seemed to be saying that once a politician gets to a position of power, voters are no longer allowed to try to influence their decisions around whether to run, be the nominee etc.
That seems problematic to me, and against the basic principles of democracy, so I'm querying it.
I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect.
Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing.
That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them.
There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic.
But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats?
I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking.
They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party.
See all the primaries so far, on both sides.
Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining.
And you know what should happen? There should be actual primaries. But they're not even pretending at this point.
You don't have real primaries for a sitting President. You just don't. See any previous election ever. Trump 2020, Obama 2012, Bush 2004, etc. etc. etc.
They lead the party for a reason.
On the Republican side this year, they TRIED to primary Trump and, well, you see how well that worked out.
You can't expect a sitting President to not re-run for office. Of course Biden is going to run.
In Trump's mind, and in the minds of a lot of his supporters, he is the "rightful" sitting President, so of course he's going to run too.
Are they the BEST choices? Of course not. But they are THE choices.
Well… yeah you can. Why can’t you?
Huh? You find it unreasonable that someone sitting in the most powerful elected position on the planet, with the opportunity to extend that seat, would choose to run again???
When he’s 81 and unpopular, yes
No, that's an external view. That's your view.
The comment, the point, is about his perspective.
Yes, in his perspective he should look at himself and say “wow, I shouldn’t run again”. He did not, because he likes the power and pats on the back the Democratic Party gives him for clinging to life
Miss.
He clearly believes, or wants, to run again. Source? He's running again.
In YOUR perspective he should look in the mirror and say "wow I shouldn't run again".
I share your perspective, but that ship has sailed. What democrat is next? The work of building a new candidate needs to start yesterday.
Oh you were just being pedantic.
Yes, I dunno. Hopefully the next one can actually rope me in.
I wasn't, I was being clear, from the beginning and you were being emotionally driven.
Let me guess, computer programmer?
Biden? Naw I doubt he's very good with computers
you can't expect him to, no.
you can WANT him to. you can be pleasantly surprised if he does.
but expect him to? come on.
You can expect it if you want to. You can expect whatever you want. It's just your expectations won't mirror reality.
If your friends won't expect then you can leave your friends behind
I guess so. I just hope the Democratic Party know that their expectations for me to vote for Joe Biden again won’t mirror reality
Because nobody tells someone at that power level what to do.
They can choose, on their own, not to run like Johnson did in 1968. But no outside influence can or should tell a President they can't run.
If you think no one tells Joe Biden what he should be doing on the daily you might be more demented than he is.
"should do" and "to do" are two entirely different things. :)
Well… they also do that.
Also, even taking that statement as literal - is that supposed to be a good thing? “Despite his staff and advisors urging him to not run again, in a bid for power he is again!”
It's not "in a bid for power", it's to block Trump. If Trump weren't running Biden would likely dust off his hands, go "My work here is done!" and quietly retire at the end of his term.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-not-sure-he-would-seek-re-election-if-trump-was-not-2023-12-05/
If something happened to take Trump out of the race, especially between now and the conventions in July and August, I think Biden would bow out, but he won't as long as Trump is around.
I simply don’t believe that Biden is the most electable person in the country against Trump lol
He's the only person who's already beaten him.
Well, I guess we’ll have to see if he can do it again. I don’t bemoan people for voting for him, but he doesn’t have mine
so you're voting for Trump? effectively or directly?
No, I’m just voting third party.
that's what I said. you're effectively voting for Trump.
You don't understand how the voting system in the USA works, obviously, which is a shame.
I look forward to preferential/ ranked voting coming in, but until that day, you're a fucking retard.
How is it that there are all these people who have nothing to do with political office in their daily lives who know all the personal conversations and thoughts of the inner circles of the presidency?
Are you unaware of the extremely basic fact that essentially every president in US history has relied incredibly strongly on a wide team of advisors and cabinet members.
They teach you that in middle school civics. Did you think the presidency was like in a movie where it’s just one guy who decides to do everything he does? Do you think Biden sits there with a calculator running the numbers??
Certain flanks of the party saying he shouldn't but not putting up anyone who should is hardly a consensus, plus to assume it's 'a bid for power', like some kind of movie super villain here, totally not like something someone who would try and prevent congressional certification of the election would do.
I do tire of these threads, 'Trump is evil incarnate and must be stopped by... scattering votes for the only viably running candidate all over the map?'.
I thought the whole point of having a democracy was people got to choose their leaders.
If you're saying leaders become too powerful to reject, that's troubling.
The people had the opportunity to choose during the primary whether they wanted to vote for someone else who holds mostly similar views (e.g. the same political party) to their own, or the person currently doing the job. There weren't a lot of people from the same political party that offered themselves up as challengers to the person currently doing the job, for a variety of reasons. Our system heavily favors the person currently doing the job in our primary elections, but challenges have been made before, just not this time.
Reject no, this is about Biden choosing to run
You get to choose, between the Republican nominee and the Democratic nominee.
If you vote Libertarian, you are helping Biden by taking away a Trump vote.
If you vote Green, you are helping Trump by taking away a Biden vote.
To clarify, the above wasn't some kind of rhetorical question. I'm not American and am not asking for voting guidance.
You seemed to be saying that once a politician gets to a position of power, voters are no longer allowed to try to influence their decisions around whether to run, be the nominee etc.
That seems problematic to me, and against the basic principles of democracy, so I'm querying it.
I don't think they were saying anything about what is allowed, but they were saying what is likely and realistic to expect.
Incumbent politicians have multiple advantages, but if you don't want them then the choice is to vote for their opponent or not vote, which really is the same thing.
That seems really anti-democracy. If an incumbent performs poorly or breaks promises there should be mechanisms for people to ask to select another candidate to represent them.
There is, it's called "voting". But you aren't just going to remove someone as a candidate because you don't like them, that's undemocratic.
But didn't you just say they can't vote for non-Biden democrats?
I feel like either I completely misunderstood your initial comment about Presidents having so much power, or else you're misunderstanding what I'm asking.
They can, it's pointless, but they can. Nobody is going to sufficiently challenge the de facto leader of the party.
See all the primaries so far, on both sides.
Thanks, yeah I misunderstood your initial point. Thanks for explaining.
And you know what should happen? There should be actual primaries. But they're not even pretending at this point.
You don't have real primaries for a sitting President. You just don't. See any previous election ever. Trump 2020, Obama 2012, Bush 2004, etc. etc. etc.
They lead the party for a reason.
On the Republican side this year, they TRIED to primary Trump and, well, you see how well that worked out.