I can't wait for the surprise Pikachu on their faces when the university takes action. If they think actions should have consequences for others, why shouldn't it apply to them as well?
There will be no surprised Pikachu faces because anyone out there protesting values innocent human lives more than a suspension, expulsion, or unjust criminal charges unto them.
I think you might not get protesting.
Did Hamas value innocent human lives on October 7th?
See, I still don't see you getting the whole protesting thing, here.
Let's not try and pigeon-hole our way out of making ourselves look dumb by making ourselves look dumber, now...
Why does this type of question get deflected? Do you support what Hamas did on October 8? Person who values innocent lives
Your question gets deflected because it isn't asked in good faith. (Read: you're not good at trolling.)
Our comment thread is about you not understanding what a protest is, why people do it, and the societal function it serves.
Your inability to stick to that topic in this thread is yours to own and no one else's. It is you failing to stay in topic.
Your whining about topics I am not discussing with you is more logical fallacy, which makes everything you say thereafter have less credibility to everyone who sees it. This is why you will end up with a righteous amount of downvotes.
I wouldn't bother responding to this, unless that's some kind ego thing you can't ignore. I certainly won't be reading anything more from you.
Damn son
That’s what I said!
I’m not even going to read your answer because I can tell it is in bad faith. Simple question requires a simple answer but I can tell by your wall of text you are avoiding the question. A simple no will stop you from embarrassing yourself further
lol knew it
no u
lol
So did I
Palestine is not Hamas. Can you imagine what it would be like for those who live in the US if everyone were held guilty of crimes the US has committed against the world?
Then condemn the actions of Hamas and assist Israel in bringing their leaders and soldiers to justice.
Hamas blew up some shit and now Israel is conducting a genocide and you're like "RAH RAH GENOCIDE!".
Hamas killed 1200 civilians. They would have killed more if they could have. The missiles stop when Hamas leaders are dead. Give them up.
It’s cute that you think there are rules here. These holy wars have never adhered to the Geneva convention. Why would they start now? Hamas could have targeted Military, a noble endeavor, but instead they attacked civilians at a hippie concert.
Israel has genocided 35,000 innocent Palestinians, mostly children. Stop being edgy and learn to experience empathy.
I’m not entirely sure you understand how war works. Just because you’re losing doesn’t mean you’re the victim. They can end it if they surrender Hamas. It’s not edgy, is just how it is and always has been.
Sleeping on the floor of a lecture hall isn’t going to change anything. The right has propagandized this war to steer voters away from Biden you’re all falling for it. The battle for Gaza and Jew/Muslim Israel/Palestine wars have gone on for centuries. Let them do what they’ve always done.
I don’t like the killing of civilians but there’s no front line. Hamas soldiers wear civilian clothes. Israel also doesn’t give a fuck. Surrender is the only optics the world will respond to. If they surrender Hamas, and Israel continues their barrage, then we should take action against Israel.
If you want to protest, support Palestinian businesses and boycott Israeli ones. This actually works.
You don't have a real response to my position so you immediately go off topic and begin personal insults. This tells me that you don't have an actual position here. /out
I never insulted you but I will now, robot. Your only “position” is “Palestine is not Hamas”. PROVE IT. The world wants to fucking hear it said from Palestinian leaders.
You have no real position, you have a script. Go sling your fascist rhetoric on Reddit. You aren’t welcome here. We see through your bullshit, bandit. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦.
Blocking you. Didn’t read.
You clearly don't know anything about the conflict. (Others can see your answer where you indicate to me that this was a "religion war", not trying to check how antisemitic Europe gave a colony to colonizer to avoid assuming it was Europe fault)
That sad because I'm sure you're smart enough to understand. But you prefer to say that others are robot/russian...
The Turks lost the area to the British in WW1. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. Everyone was a colonizer 100 years ago. But if we’re talking about colonization, the Arabs kicked the Jews out of Israel hundreds of years ago. Those damn colonizers!!! Good thing the Torah documents this and clearly confirms that Palestine is actually a “God-given” inheritance to the Jews.
But none of this is relevant because this isn’t a holy war 😒
Did the average civilian just living their life have anything to do with it?
Maybe we should ask civilian Shani Nicole Louk.
Oh but we can’t because her naked corpse was last seen in the back of a Hamas fighter’s truck being spit on by dozens of cheering Palestinians.
That image will haunt me the rest of my life. I can’t Imagine the rage born within an Israeli from that absolutely vile video.
Jfc read a list before trying to argue with people. You're embarrassing yourself.
I mean, does it really make a difference? I agree that more things like this should be protested. But even if you think they're hypocrites that doesn't mean they're wrong now. Put it this way: if they had protested the Saudis, would this protest be totally cool with you?
And obviously the answer is because their university and government are backing and funding this one. If you can't see the difference in relevance to the average American you have a serious problem.
Their government and (probably) university were backing the other one as well
But obviously not to the same extent. And I'm sure we can agree that that was a bad thing to do
I can't speak for the universities, but by many standards the involvement of the US military was a lot larger.
Asides from supplying weapons and intelligence, they were participating in the naval blockade and flying air tankers to help the genocide. 380k dead, that's 10 times as much as what's reported from Gaza.
And sure, it was bad, but I think the above poster as well as myself want to make the point that it's quite arbitrary to take such risks to protest this conflict in particular. I assume most of the protestors have been Kony'd into thinking that this conflict is somehow very special and worth risking their future for.
That said, I think they should be free to do so peacefully and the fucks who are doxxing them should swing
Is your position that US support for Israel is the same as for the Saudis?
Of course not
In Yemen they were practically throwing the bombs themselves
Of course not
And this is one major reason the level of outrage and protest is different.
So your position is that they didn't protest Yemen because it was worse?
No? That makes no sense.
It's that the US is Israel's main supporter, overall, in a way they are not to Saudi Arabia. Should people have protested about Yemen? Yes! Is it weird that Israel has more attention in the US? No
quite arbitrary
Fueled by propaganda using this as a wedge issue to get Trump elected.
You pointed at another bad thing and somehow that means that we shouldn’t care about this bad thing?
The US doesn't finance Saudis bombing Yemen.
They sell them the bombs don’t they?
So disingenuous as you know that you’d be against people protesting that too.
So let’s say the protest works. There’s a cease fire. Good job everyone. So smart and ethically superior.
Now that you’ve all made the world a better place, what is going to happen to the innocent Israeli hostages that Hamas has?
What will happen if Hamas continue to fire rockets into Israel? Like they always have?
If you can’t answer these questions it’s not really because you can’t, it’s because you won’t. It’s a bad faith discussion.
I’m assuming you’re ok with Hamas stealing and diverting the international aid that was intended for improving the lives of Palestinians and diverting it themselves and buying rockets and launching more October 7th style attacks in the future.
I’m sure you’ve all thought this through like the smart people you are.
I would expect them to returned, post haste.
Hamas likely will keep firing rockets, as killing thousands of children will tend to make their fathers turn pro-Hamas.
It seems to me that you think that whilst the hostages are not returned then the killing should continue, is that right?
As for the rest of your points, yes I have thought about them, no I don’t support Hamas. Someone that can put it better than me is Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish man and arguably the foremost expert on the conflict and certainly the most well read. You should check him out if you really are open to listening to a counter argument to the msm.
Will do. And yes I think the innocent civilian hostages should be returned before the attack on the people who kidnapped them and killed 1800 others still exist. In the Lemmy bubble the hostages are non existent for some reason? Probably because innocent people can’t kidnap and murder other innocent people. The other thing is Hamas must be destroyed. Hamas broke the cease fire. They knew this would happen. They happily used the innocent Palestinians as collateral to advance their own cause.
Do I think a genocide is even taking place? Yes and no. I think there have been some poor actions taken by a small number of idf personal who probably want a genocide, I think this is the exception not the rule, this is normal (not right) for every war. Do I support a genocide? Fuck no. The problem that Israel has is they are fighting an enemy that has many shades of grey. Hamas must be destroyed. The Palestine people have strong support for Hamas which also means they likely support what Hamas did on October 7th. Many may be indirectly helping Hamas - even if they fall just short of picking up a gun or deploying an ied themselves. Should these people be spared?
I am fully aware of the 1800 innocent hostages. I just don’t think the deaths of 30,000 innocent Palestinians is acceptable and I think anybody that doesn’t is deplorable.
I don’t need lemmy for my morals mate. I was born this way, I find it staggering that people like you will justify these abhorrent acts.
As for a few rogue units, the ICC is rumoured to be issuing an arrest warrant for Bibi.
You presume that everyone acts selfishly and ignorantly like you do.
Nah, I expect people are dumb enough to think the first amendment protects them from private institutions and consequences. I've seen enough people over the years that have proven me right and were then surprised by the consequences of their own actions.
It takes federal funds so it does apply, it's already been ruled on in like 1968. They aren't traditional public forums, they're limited ones but civil disobedience is literally the cornerstone of American peaceful protest.
Are you stupid? You think they haven't faced action yet? Lol read a book
Their camp is still there on campus past the deadline. They clearly haven't fully faced the consequences of it yet.
It was literally cleared out and rebuilt...
I'm talking about the deadline today. The university already started handing out suspensions for those still there, but haven't cleared them out yet.
I can't wait for the surprise Pikachu on their faces when the university takes action. If they think actions should have consequences for others, why shouldn't it apply to them as well?
There will be no surprised Pikachu faces because anyone out there protesting values innocent human lives more than a suspension, expulsion, or unjust criminal charges unto them.
I think you might not get protesting.
Did Hamas value innocent human lives on October 7th?
See, I still don't see you getting the whole protesting thing, here.
Let's not try and pigeon-hole our way out of making ourselves look dumb by making ourselves look dumber, now...
Why does this type of question get deflected? Do you support what Hamas did on October 8? Person who values innocent lives
Your question gets deflected because it isn't asked in good faith. (Read: you're not good at trolling.)
Our comment thread is about you not understanding what a protest is, why people do it, and the societal function it serves.
Your inability to stick to that topic in this thread is yours to own and no one else's. It is you failing to stay in topic.
Your whining about topics I am not discussing with you is more logical fallacy, which makes everything you say thereafter have less credibility to everyone who sees it. This is why you will end up with a righteous amount of downvotes.
I wouldn't bother responding to this, unless that's some kind ego thing you can't ignore. I certainly won't be reading anything more from you.
Damn son
That’s what I said!
I’m not even going to read your answer because I can tell it is in bad faith. Simple question requires a simple answer but I can tell by your wall of text you are avoiding the question. A simple no will stop you from embarrassing yourself further
lol knew it
no u
lol
So did I
Palestine is not Hamas. Can you imagine what it would be like for those who live in the US if everyone were held guilty of crimes the US has committed against the world?
Then condemn the actions of Hamas and assist Israel in bringing their leaders and soldiers to justice.
Hamas blew up some shit and now Israel is conducting a genocide and you're like "RAH RAH GENOCIDE!".
Hamas killed 1200 civilians. They would have killed more if they could have. The missiles stop when Hamas leaders are dead. Give them up.
It’s cute that you think there are rules here. These holy wars have never adhered to the Geneva convention. Why would they start now? Hamas could have targeted Military, a noble endeavor, but instead they attacked civilians at a hippie concert.
Israel has genocided 35,000 innocent Palestinians, mostly children. Stop being edgy and learn to experience empathy.
I’m not entirely sure you understand how war works. Just because you’re losing doesn’t mean you’re the victim. They can end it if they surrender Hamas. It’s not edgy, is just how it is and always has been.
Sleeping on the floor of a lecture hall isn’t going to change anything. The right has propagandized this war to steer voters away from Biden you’re all falling for it. The battle for Gaza and Jew/Muslim Israel/Palestine wars have gone on for centuries. Let them do what they’ve always done.
I don’t like the killing of civilians but there’s no front line. Hamas soldiers wear civilian clothes. Israel also doesn’t give a fuck. Surrender is the only optics the world will respond to. If they surrender Hamas, and Israel continues their barrage, then we should take action against Israel.
If you want to protest, support Palestinian businesses and boycott Israeli ones. This actually works.
You don't have a real response to my position so you immediately go off topic and begin personal insults. This tells me that you don't have an actual position here. /out
I never insulted you but I will now, robot. Your only “position” is “Palestine is not Hamas”. PROVE IT. The world wants to fucking hear it said from Palestinian leaders.
You have no real position, you have a script. Go sling your fascist rhetoric on Reddit. You aren’t welcome here. We see through your bullshit, bandit. Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦.
Blocking you. Didn’t read.
You clearly don't know anything about the conflict. (Others can see your answer where you indicate to me that this was a "religion war", not trying to check how antisemitic Europe gave a colony to colonizer to avoid assuming it was Europe fault)
That sad because I'm sure you're smart enough to understand. But you prefer to say that others are robot/russian...
The Turks lost the area to the British in WW1. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. Everyone was a colonizer 100 years ago. But if we’re talking about colonization, the Arabs kicked the Jews out of Israel hundreds of years ago. Those damn colonizers!!! Good thing the Torah documents this and clearly confirms that Palestine is actually a “God-given” inheritance to the Jews.
But none of this is relevant because this isn’t a holy war 😒
Did the average civilian just living their life have anything to do with it?
Maybe we should ask civilian Shani Nicole Louk.
Oh but we can’t because her naked corpse was last seen in the back of a Hamas fighter’s truck being spit on by dozens of cheering Palestinians.
That image will haunt me the rest of my life. I can’t Imagine the rage born within an Israeli from that absolutely vile video.
Hamas not valuing human life = bad, evil people
Israel not valuing human life = totally reasonable and good behaviour
You wouldn't recognise consistency if it was banging out a 4/4 beat on your nutsack
You clearly don't
If that’s really true, why weren’t they protesting when the saudis were bombing the hell out of Yemen?
Whatabout whatabout whatabout.
Jfc read a list before trying to argue with people. You're embarrassing yourself.
I mean, does it really make a difference? I agree that more things like this should be protested. But even if you think they're hypocrites that doesn't mean they're wrong now. Put it this way: if they had protested the Saudis, would this protest be totally cool with you?
And obviously the answer is because their university and government are backing and funding this one. If you can't see the difference in relevance to the average American you have a serious problem.
Their government and (probably) university were backing the other one as well
But obviously not to the same extent. And I'm sure we can agree that that was a bad thing to do
I can't speak for the universities, but by many standards the involvement of the US military was a lot larger.
Asides from supplying weapons and intelligence, they were participating in the naval blockade and flying air tankers to help the genocide. 380k dead, that's 10 times as much as what's reported from Gaza.
And sure, it was bad, but I think the above poster as well as myself want to make the point that it's quite arbitrary to take such risks to protest this conflict in particular. I assume most of the protestors have been Kony'd into thinking that this conflict is somehow very special and worth risking their future for.
That said, I think they should be free to do so peacefully and the fucks who are doxxing them should swing
Is your position that US support for Israel is the same as for the Saudis?
Of course not
In Yemen they were practically throwing the bombs themselves
And this is one major reason the level of outrage and protest is different.
So your position is that they didn't protest Yemen because it was worse?
No? That makes no sense.
It's that the US is Israel's main supporter, overall, in a way they are not to Saudi Arabia. Should people have protested about Yemen? Yes! Is it weird that Israel has more attention in the US? No
Fueled by propaganda using this as a wedge issue to get Trump elected.
You pointed at another bad thing and somehow that means that we shouldn’t care about this bad thing?
The US doesn't finance Saudis bombing Yemen.
They sell them the bombs don’t they?
So disingenuous as you know that you’d be against people protesting that too.
So let’s say the protest works. There’s a cease fire. Good job everyone. So smart and ethically superior.
Now that you’ve all made the world a better place, what is going to happen to the innocent Israeli hostages that Hamas has?
What will happen if Hamas continue to fire rockets into Israel? Like they always have?
If you can’t answer these questions it’s not really because you can’t, it’s because you won’t. It’s a bad faith discussion.
I’m assuming you’re ok with Hamas stealing and diverting the international aid that was intended for improving the lives of Palestinians and diverting it themselves and buying rockets and launching more October 7th style attacks in the future.
I’m sure you’ve all thought this through like the smart people you are.
I would expect them to returned, post haste.
Hamas likely will keep firing rockets, as killing thousands of children will tend to make their fathers turn pro-Hamas.
It seems to me that you think that whilst the hostages are not returned then the killing should continue, is that right?
As for the rest of your points, yes I have thought about them, no I don’t support Hamas. Someone that can put it better than me is Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish man and arguably the foremost expert on the conflict and certainly the most well read. You should check him out if you really are open to listening to a counter argument to the msm.
Will do. And yes I think the innocent civilian hostages should be returned before the attack on the people who kidnapped them and killed 1800 others still exist. In the Lemmy bubble the hostages are non existent for some reason? Probably because innocent people can’t kidnap and murder other innocent people. The other thing is Hamas must be destroyed. Hamas broke the cease fire. They knew this would happen. They happily used the innocent Palestinians as collateral to advance their own cause.
Do I think a genocide is even taking place? Yes and no. I think there have been some poor actions taken by a small number of idf personal who probably want a genocide, I think this is the exception not the rule, this is normal (not right) for every war. Do I support a genocide? Fuck no. The problem that Israel has is they are fighting an enemy that has many shades of grey. Hamas must be destroyed. The Palestine people have strong support for Hamas which also means they likely support what Hamas did on October 7th. Many may be indirectly helping Hamas - even if they fall just short of picking up a gun or deploying an ied themselves. Should these people be spared?
I am fully aware of the 1800 innocent hostages. I just don’t think the deaths of 30,000 innocent Palestinians is acceptable and I think anybody that doesn’t is deplorable.
I don’t need lemmy for my morals mate. I was born this way, I find it staggering that people like you will justify these abhorrent acts.
As for a few rogue units, the ICC is rumoured to be issuing an arrest warrant for Bibi.
You presume that everyone acts selfishly and ignorantly like you do.
Nah, I expect people are dumb enough to think the first amendment protects them from private institutions and consequences. I've seen enough people over the years that have proven me right and were then surprised by the consequences of their own actions.
It takes federal funds so it does apply, it's already been ruled on in like 1968. They aren't traditional public forums, they're limited ones but civil disobedience is literally the cornerstone of American peaceful protest.
Are you stupid? You think they haven't faced action yet? Lol read a book
Their camp is still there on campus past the deadline. They clearly haven't fully faced the consequences of it yet.
It was literally cleared out and rebuilt...
I'm talking about the deadline today. The university already started handing out suspensions for those still there, but haven't cleared them out yet.