That should be clear. Palestine is a nation, but not a location.
Edit: I don’t know why people are so upset. This is a factual statement, not meant to discredit Palestine, and is a very important part of Israel’s oppressive leverage. As a direct result of their displacement, Palestine is a people. The nation is wherever the Palestinians live. The land they govern is only defined by their occupation.
Palestine is recognized by the UN as self-determined nation of people. It is not a country with internationally recognized borders. That is why their land is referred to as Palestinian territory and not the country of Palestine. It’s also why Netanyahu wants to evict them for easy circumvention of international law prohibiting settlements in occupied Palestinian territory.
Palestine, officially the State of Palestine, is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia. It encompasses two disconnected territories — the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, collectively known as the Palestinian territories — within the larger region of Palestine.
Yeah, but... Where is that? /s
And does it have an Eastern area? /s
And as a nation it has been in the news a lot lately. And may be divided into an Eastern portion, and a Western portion, no?
People outside of the US probably don’t know about the train wreck in Ohio. It never hurts to add a little clarification.
With all the stuff going on, i am in the us and forgot their was a train wreck in ohio.
It's both. Just like any other nation. If you go to France, your location is France and you're also in the nation of France.
Same with Palestine.
But it’s not. If Palestinians leave territory, that land is no longer considered Palestine. Palestine is where the Palestinians live. Their nation has territories defined by residence, but is not a country with borders. I wasn’t slighting Palestine. It’s just the unfortunate state of their international recognition.
No, Palestine is a specific geographic area and has been known that way since Ancient Egypt.
Historically, maybe, but not legally. It’s the reason Netanyahu wants to evict them. He can circumvent the laws on settlements on occupied territory without invading another nation if the people are no longer there, because it is not part of a Palestinian country. They’re a displaced people without sovereign borders. The nations that show them the respect of recognition as a sovereign nation have not set agreed-upon borders to define Palestine as a country. It’s important to know the law to see how he’s circumventing it.
I’m stating a fact. It isn’t subjective. You don’t have to like it, but that doesn’t make it false.
You should know this if you care about Palestinians. It’s a very important part of how Netanyahu’s “favor” of evacuation rather than bombing immediately allows Israel the legal right to claim an area as their own.
It's not a fact.
But it is.
Palestine is an internationally recognized nation-state, but is not a country according to the UN. The 1949 armistice line, or “Green Line,” made up the boundaries of Israel, the West Bank (the area west of the Jordan River) and the Gaza Strip. Therefore, Palestine’s border is only determined by an Israeli agreement, and not internationally recognized by the UN. If Palestinians leave an area, it is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to coerce evacuation of regions. Once uninhabited, he can legally begin occupation of land that is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
Are you under the bizarre impression that a place just loses its name like that? If every French person left France, its name would change?
France is a country, not just a nation. Their borders are internationally recognized, regardless of inhabitants. The same can be said for the large swaths of unpopulated Newfoundland in Canada and Siberia in Russia. The land isn’t forgone due to being uninhabited. The same is not true for Palestinian territory.
Palestine is an internationally recognized nation-state. A nation because they are a group of people that share a common culture, and a state because they govern themselves. It is not a country according to the UN. The 1949 armistice line, or “Green Line,” made up the boundaries of Israel, the West Bank (the area west of the Jordan River) and the Gaza Strip. It only determines where Palestine isn’t, not where it is. Palestine’s border is only determined by an Israeli agreement, and not internationally recognized by the UN. Therefore, if Palestinians leave an area, it is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to coerce evacuation of regions. Once uninhabited, he can legally begin occupation of land that is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
Why would the name of the place change just because Palestinians weren't living there?
Huge numbers of places in the U.S. are named after Native American groups that were driven out. Why would Palestine be any different? Because Netanyahu says so? Why would you be on his side?
The borders of a country do not change due to occupation. Palestine is not a country. It is a nation-state. The UN recognizes Palestine as a self-determined people. Palestine is where the Palestinians are.
The Palestinian Territories are the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They are not called the country of Palestine. If they leave the West Bank, it will still be the West Bank, it just won’t be Palestinian territory anymore.
Of course I’m not on Netanyahu’s side. I’m saying this is a large part of the problem. It’s one of the main components in Israel’s ability to drive out Palestinians and expand.
Cool. We're not talking about a country or a nation-state, we are talking about a location.
A location that has been called Palestine continuously for thousands of years. It is a location that has multiple names which are still used today including the Levant, Judea, Israel and Palestine.
So, again, why would the name of that location change no matter who lived there?
So far, the answer seems to be "because that's what Netanyahu wants" and, again, why do you care what he wants?
I'll give you one last chance to answer both of those questions since I've asked both of them more than once, the first one multiple times, and then I'll give up. I think you realize you're just doing Netanyahu's PR work for him and you've dug yourself into a hole.
You’re being dismissive and accusational. I’m not defending the lack of recognized Palestinian borders. Just the opposite. For a platform full of pro-Palestinian people, I’m very disappointed in the ignorance I’m encountering. Their lack of recognized borders is a massive factor in this conflict, and I’m surprised it’s not only virtually unknown, but is considered scandalous to even point out. No matter how many nations recognize Palestine as a nation, they won’t have their own borders until they are recognized as a country.
"You see, Ukraine is not a location because if the Russians kick out the Ukrainians and then rename it, it's no longer called Ukraine. Because... the Russians currently don't recognize Ukraine and that that means it doesn't exist right now!"
That sure seems to be the argument. And now they have the gall to ask me what question they left unanswered. Amazing. I think I'll let them try to figure that one out on their own.
I didn't think you would ever answer my questions.
I can't bear people who just stubbornly refuse to even acknowledge they were asked questions they won't answer. Just be honest and say you won't answer the question and save everyone some time.
This conversation is over.
I’m honestly not trying to upset you. I’m sorry if I did.
I’m trying to be clear about the legality of the problem. What is the question that I left unanswered?
B. This is the United States where we regularly question why the FBI isn't stopping Russian influence in the Georgian Parliament.
It’s not according to the UN. Their occupied land is Palestinian territory. If they vacate, it is no longer theirs, leaving it available for Israel to claim. It’s a large part of the occupation problem that Palestinians face.
In contrast, Ukraine has internationally recognized borders. The currently Russian occupied towns and cities are still Ukraine, not Russia.
Is that not a geographical location then? So they are both a nation and a country?
They are a nation, not a country.
“Nation” refers to a group of people who share a common culture, history, and language. It’s a term that’s often used to describe a community of people who identify with each other and have a sense of shared identity.
On the other hand, “country” refers to a geographical area that is controlled by a government. It’s a more concrete term that describes a physical location rather than a group of people.
I'm aware of the difference. But your own post mentions the geographical area that Palestinians govern. So I'm at a loss as to how you can day there isn't also a Palestine country?
They only govern it because they reside in it. The governance of land is what defines the “state” in nation-state. Unlike in a country, if they leave an area, it is no longer Palestine. That’s a problem for Palestinians. If they vacate due to bombings, they forgo the right to their territory. That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to force evacuations. International law is against Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories, not Palestine, because it is not a recognized country.
In contrast, the same actions in Ukraine do not change that it’s still Ukraine. When the Ukrainians evacuate and Russia takes control of a city, it becomes a Russian occupation of Ukraine.
I’m just trying to educate on the matter, not discredit Palestine at all, but people seem to be too sensitive to want to know the intricacies of the problem.
That's just how being a country works. Of course you can't govern the area if you leave.
But I think what you're actually talking about is the Oslo accords, which are completely fucked and were supposed to be a temporary phase leading to a two state solution.
See the thing is the borders of West Bank and Gaza are well known. It's just people that try to downplay illegal settlements and land grabs that pretend they aren't well known.
That’s simply not true. Canada’s borders are internationally recognized, even though Newfoundland is mostly unpopulated. The same can be said for Siberia in Russia.
And Palestine.
You don't appear to know the difference between a country and a location.
Palestinians do not care much that they do not fit your arbitrary Western definition of a country.
I’m referring to their UN designation of a self-determined nation-state. If the UN would recognize them as a country with established borders, it would assist them in defending against Israel’s occupation.
A country is not a location. You cannot even keep the Hasbara straight this is pathetic.
“Nation” refers to a group of people who share a common culture, history, and language. It’s a term that’s often used to describe a community of people who identify with each other and have a sense of shared identity.
On the other hand, “country” refers to a geographical area that is controlled by a government. It’s a more concrete term that describes a physical location rather than a group of people.
That should be clear. Palestine is a nation, but not a location.
Edit: I don’t know why people are so upset. This is a factual statement, not meant to discredit Palestine, and is a very important part of Israel’s oppressive leverage. As a direct result of their displacement, Palestine is a people. The nation is wherever the Palestinians live. The land they govern is only defined by their occupation.
Palestine is recognized by the UN as self-determined nation of people. It is not a country with internationally recognized borders. That is why their land is referred to as Palestinian territory and not the country of Palestine. It’s also why Netanyahu wants to evict them for easy circumvention of international law prohibiting settlements in occupied Palestinian territory.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/the-right-of-the-palestinian-self-determination-19-dec24/
...what?
Palestine, officially the State of Palestine, is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia. It encompasses two disconnected territories — the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, collectively known as the Palestinian territories — within the larger region of Palestine.
Yeah, but... Where is that? /s
And does it have an Eastern area? /s
And as a nation it has been in the news a lot lately. And may be divided into an Eastern portion, and a Western portion, no?
People outside of the US probably don’t know about the train wreck in Ohio. It never hurts to add a little clarification.
With all the stuff going on, i am in the us and forgot their was a train wreck in ohio.
It's both. Just like any other nation. If you go to France, your location is France and you're also in the nation of France.
Same with Palestine.
But it’s not. If Palestinians leave territory, that land is no longer considered Palestine. Palestine is where the Palestinians live. Their nation has territories defined by residence, but is not a country with borders. I wasn’t slighting Palestine. It’s just the unfortunate state of their international recognition.
No, Palestine is a specific geographic area and has been known that way since Ancient Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine
Historically, maybe, but not legally. It’s the reason Netanyahu wants to evict them. He can circumvent the laws on settlements on occupied territory without invading another nation if the people are no longer there, because it is not part of a Palestinian country. They’re a displaced people without sovereign borders. The nations that show them the respect of recognition as a sovereign nation have not set agreed-upon borders to define Palestine as a country. It’s important to know the law to see how he’s circumventing it.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/the-right-of-the-palestinian-self-determination-19-dec24/
Stop already
I’m stating a fact. It isn’t subjective. You don’t have to like it, but that doesn’t make it false.
You should know this if you care about Palestinians. It’s a very important part of how Netanyahu’s “favor” of evacuation rather than bombing immediately allows Israel the legal right to claim an area as their own.
It's not a fact.
But it is.
Palestine is an internationally recognized nation-state, but is not a country according to the UN. The 1949 armistice line, or “Green Line,” made up the boundaries of Israel, the West Bank (the area west of the Jordan River) and the Gaza Strip. Therefore, Palestine’s border is only determined by an Israeli agreement, and not internationally recognized by the UN. If Palestinians leave an area, it is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to coerce evacuation of regions. Once uninhabited, he can legally begin occupation of land that is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
https://www.nad.ps/en/our-position/borders
https://fmep.org/issues/borders/
Are you under the bizarre impression that a place just loses its name like that? If every French person left France, its name would change?
France is a country, not just a nation. Their borders are internationally recognized, regardless of inhabitants. The same can be said for the large swaths of unpopulated Newfoundland in Canada and Siberia in Russia. The land isn’t forgone due to being uninhabited. The same is not true for Palestinian territory.
Palestine is an internationally recognized nation-state. A nation because they are a group of people that share a common culture, and a state because they govern themselves. It is not a country according to the UN. The 1949 armistice line, or “Green Line,” made up the boundaries of Israel, the West Bank (the area west of the Jordan River) and the Gaza Strip. It only determines where Palestine isn’t, not where it is. Palestine’s border is only determined by an Israeli agreement, and not internationally recognized by the UN. Therefore, if Palestinians leave an area, it is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to coerce evacuation of regions. Once uninhabited, he can legally begin occupation of land that is no longer considered Palestinian territory.
https://www.nad.ps/en/our-position/borders
https://fmep.org/issues/borders/
You are still not making sense.
Why would the name of the place change just because Palestinians weren't living there?
Huge numbers of places in the U.S. are named after Native American groups that were driven out. Why would Palestine be any different? Because Netanyahu says so? Why would you be on his side?
The borders of a country do not change due to occupation. Palestine is not a country. It is a nation-state. The UN recognizes Palestine as a self-determined people. Palestine is where the Palestinians are.
The Palestinian Territories are the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They are not called the country of Palestine. If they leave the West Bank, it will still be the West Bank, it just won’t be Palestinian territory anymore.
Of course I’m not on Netanyahu’s side. I’m saying this is a large part of the problem. It’s one of the main components in Israel’s ability to drive out Palestinians and expand.
Cool. We're not talking about a country or a nation-state, we are talking about a location.
A location that has been called Palestine continuously for thousands of years. It is a location that has multiple names which are still used today including the Levant, Judea, Israel and Palestine.
So, again, why would the name of that location change no matter who lived there?
So far, the answer seems to be "because that's what Netanyahu wants" and, again, why do you care what he wants?
I'll give you one last chance to answer both of those questions since I've asked both of them more than once, the first one multiple times, and then I'll give up. I think you realize you're just doing Netanyahu's PR work for him and you've dug yourself into a hole.
You’re being dismissive and accusational. I’m not defending the lack of recognized Palestinian borders. Just the opposite. For a platform full of pro-Palestinian people, I’m very disappointed in the ignorance I’m encountering. Their lack of recognized borders is a massive factor in this conflict, and I’m surprised it’s not only virtually unknown, but is considered scandalous to even point out. No matter how many nations recognize Palestine as a nation, they won’t have their own borders until they are recognized as a country.
It’s exactly the opposite.
https://lemmy.world/comment/10727762
That sure seems to be the argument. And now they have the gall to ask me what question they left unanswered. Amazing. I think I'll let them try to figure that one out on their own.
I didn't think you would ever answer my questions.
I can't bear people who just stubbornly refuse to even acknowledge they were asked questions they won't answer. Just be honest and say you won't answer the question and save everyone some time.
This conversation is over.
I’m honestly not trying to upset you. I’m sorry if I did.
I’m trying to be clear about the legality of the problem. What is the question that I left unanswered?
A. it's both.
B. This is the United States where we regularly question why the FBI isn't stopping Russian influence in the Georgian Parliament.
It’s not according to the UN. Their occupied land is Palestinian territory. If they vacate, it is no longer theirs, leaving it available for Israel to claim. It’s a large part of the occupation problem that Palestinians face.
In contrast, Ukraine has internationally recognized borders. The currently Russian occupied towns and cities are still Ukraine, not Russia.
Is that not a geographical location then? So they are both a nation and a country?
They are a nation, not a country.
https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/nation-vs-country
I'm aware of the difference. But your own post mentions the geographical area that Palestinians govern. So I'm at a loss as to how you can day there isn't also a Palestine country?
They only govern it because they reside in it. The governance of land is what defines the “state” in nation-state. Unlike in a country, if they leave an area, it is no longer Palestine. That’s a problem for Palestinians. If they vacate due to bombings, they forgo the right to their territory. That’s exactly why Netanyahu is trying to force evacuations. International law is against Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories, not Palestine, because it is not a recognized country.
In contrast, the same actions in Ukraine do not change that it’s still Ukraine. When the Ukrainians evacuate and Russia takes control of a city, it becomes a Russian occupation of Ukraine.
I’m just trying to educate on the matter, not discredit Palestine at all, but people seem to be too sensitive to want to know the intricacies of the problem.
That's just how being a country works. Of course you can't govern the area if you leave.
But I think what you're actually talking about is the Oslo accords, which are completely fucked and were supposed to be a temporary phase leading to a two state solution.
See the thing is the borders of West Bank and Gaza are well known. It's just people that try to downplay illegal settlements and land grabs that pretend they aren't well known.
That’s simply not true. Canada’s borders are internationally recognized, even though Newfoundland is mostly unpopulated. The same can be said for Siberia in Russia.
And Palestine.
You don't appear to know the difference between a country and a location.
Palestinians do not care much that they do not fit your arbitrary Western definition of a country.
I’m referring to their UN designation of a self-determined nation-state. If the UN would recognize them as a country with established borders, it would assist them in defending against Israel’s occupation.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/the-right-of-the-palestinian-self-determination-19-dec24/
A country is not a location. You cannot even keep the Hasbara straight this is pathetic.
https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/nation-vs-country
Are you incapable of googling the definition of the word "location" so you need to Hasbara two paragraphs out of a blog?