No shit dude. You need to focus on the present first, though, so that we can continue to work towards that future you speak of. Because right now, the authoritarians threatening to make that future inaccessible are more relevant.
He's complicit
You need to focus on the present first
That's literally why the Democrats keep getting away with the pied piper shit and why things will never improve, that thinking right there.
It's why they'll always find and actively prop up the most extreme fascist to face off against to make their own terrible candidadte look better.
If Biden steps down it won't be because of people like you. It will be because of the people who made it clear that they would not vote for Biden simply because he was the less evil.
So you want to throw away our democracy in order to teach the Dems a lesson? Have you ever considered the outcome of that? Grow up, and realize that sometimes we have to settle for the imperfect to ensure our future. You have no understanding of just how damaging another Trump term would be to America's most vulnerable groups. That's simply not acceptable to those of us who are actually considering the REALITY of our current system, instead of being led by emotion and frustration at its unfair nature.
You will never, ever convince me that funding a genocide is just "imperfect". Fuck genocide apologetics. Grow up.
We've been told that since Hillary was running. How long are you all going to keep beating that drum?
Til we have another choice. That time isn't now.
Maybe we need to do better to give ourselves that choice. But we haven't.
Maybe we need to do better to give ourselves that choice. But we haven’t.
Yea, that's why everyone's pissed that we're still stuck with Biden. Why should we expect it to be any different after he wins this time?
Because his administrations track record over the last 3.5 years has been really good and they have made progress in a lot of areas. He has fucked up with Israel and he's old, but the experts that he's surrounded by that actually make the decisions will still be there if he wins. No President can just snap their fingers and make everything good, especially when the other parties goal is to obstruct and make counterprogress in everything. Quit reading headlines about his bumbled speech and look up the laundry lists of accomplishments from this admin.
especially when the other parties goal is to obstruct and make counterprogress in everything
He's made 0 progress resolving that particular situation. The supreme court just handed him a blank check and the first thing he did was say he wouldn't use it.
The supreme court just handed him a blank check and the first thing he did was say he wouldn’t use it.
Because when you are the good guy you throw away the elder wand. Or the one ring. Etc...
You don't throw it away. You destroy it. He'd have to use it to do that though and might as well clean house while he's at it.
Being what we don't want Trump to be is a dumb way to differentiate ourselves from Trump.
I want a government free of corruption. Using unlimited executive power to clear that out and then put safeguards in place to prevent it from reoccurring sounds a hell of a lot better than what the democrats have been doing. The cat is out of the bag, if he doesn't use it the next guy will.
Well, I can't find room to argue with you there.
But Trump would never destroy the one ring / elder wand, so it's not being Trump at all.
Because it's going to be much worse if he doesn't.
We have Chase Oliver (Site), and the rest of this thread is just cope, Dems ran the shittiest candidate possible to see what America would accept, and surprise its not Joe, literally every sane person I know has told me they refuse to vote Biden, but keep parroting blue no matter who, like you don't sound deranged.
Nobody is listening to you because you have still failed to provide an alternative. Biden is good enough for now. If he kicks the bucket then whatever, he has done good work so far (except for israel policy) and a blue VP is way better than a power hungry liar.
Okay to sum that all up you are blue no matter who? You are literally whats wrong.
Please go ruin another democracy
What country do you think you're in? Do you know what a first-past-the-post system is? Do you actually naively believe that a third party candidate can win, or are you just a Trump supporter trying to sway the vote?
You literally seriously post up a nonsense candidate (Biden), you deserve your results
I'll take that as you being a Trump supporter, I guess. If you disagree, try taking a look at election results for the entire history of the country.
I am actually a Chase Oliver (Site) supporter. That Trump and Biden made sure to exclude him from all debate, despite him going to be on the ballot in all 50 states show Dems and Repubs are being as shitty as possible. Oliver is better by any comparison, and isn’t 8 decades old, but you know these folks rather talk about RFK’s brain worms even though its he is only currently eligible to run in 18 states.
We’ve been told that since Hillary was running.
I didn't like Hillary one bit. I don't like Biden much more. But if folks had voted for Hillary, we'd not be in this mess and having this debate right now.
So yeah, maybe this time would be a good time to decide that lesser of two evils is a better choice than greater of two evils.
I hope they swap out Biden so people such as yourself might feel mollified enough not to help Trump get in again. The only thing "better" about Kamala Harris will be that people can STFU about age, but hey, I'll take what I can get. She'll pull us further right than Biden would though, mark my word.
Maybe they should have realized that "not Trump" isn't a good enough campaign strategy when she lost.
Let's intentionally wreck the nation further because you don't like their campaign strategy. Good plan.
Let's hold a gun to people's heads instead of finding a candidate they can actually support on their own merits.
Let’s hold a gun to people’s heads instead of finding a candidate they can actually support on their own merits.
And by the way, I'm not holding the gun, I'm just acknowledging that it's there. Your approach is to pull the trigger.
What is it that you think "my approach" is?
Actively pushing disillusionment and passivity in order to convince democrats not to vote, and usher in a Trump presidency? Even if that's not "your approach," is what you're doing in this thread.
I'm not "pushing" anything. I am explaining why I'm disillusioned. If other's agree with me that's not my fault. If that's so bad maybe the people responsible for this situation should take a good hard look at the way they're doing things and come up with a better plan next time instead of continuously doubling down.
So let it all burn because it's not your fault and they did a bad job? I dunno man, I kinda like living in a democracy, even a broken one, over a fascist society.
I didn't create the situation, I'm just commenting on it. I hardly think a Lemmy post is going to push us over the edge.
Would it be a stretch to say that you don't think a single vote will push the election one way or another, either?
Your approach certainly seems to be that we should vote for someone other than Biden. If I've misinterpreted your position that's my fault - but then if that's NOT your position then this arguing is even more impotent since your goal is what exactly? That you want to be sure the rest of us are just as angry about voting for Biden as you are?
I never said don't vote for Biden. I'm saying the democrats have been running a bad strategy since Trump showed up. Not sure how else to make them understand that they need to do better.
Dude, reality has provided these two candidates. One is the sitting president, who always runs. If you have a problem with how we get our candidates, I probably agree with you, but we've already run that gauntlet for 2024. The time to change that process is before the general, not AT the general.
We have two viable candidates. One will destroy the country. The other will frustrate us with how little they do to improve it. NO OTHER candidate who shows up to replace Biden is going to change that description. It's going to literally be the same two sentences. If you are going to vote in a way that helps Trump get in, at least have the honesty to recognize that's what you are doing. You aren't going to change shit for the better, you are just going to make it a faster slide into things getting worse. You will help Trump and his supporters while literally changing 0 things for the better.
Where did I say I was changing my vote? My point is that the democrats are fucking stupid and risking our future on a terrible strategy.
And the Republicans aren't? That's kinda the whole point of this post, so much scrutiny is given to the left while the right is just accepted now.
I'm not voting for Trump regardless so scrutinizing them is pointless. That said, their strategy is working wonderfully for them. He beat Hillary and everyone's concerned he'll beat Biden. If Dems had their shit together he would have never gotten close.
So since you aren't voting for him everyone should stop talking about all the bad things he does. We should only carry a spotlight on what guy we want to win. Question his every move but ignore the guy trying to bring down democracy, leave him in peace. WTF...
Yes, and if Republicans nominated a sane person we wouldn't be here. But seems like the Republican party did a great job of making people not care what horrible things they do anymore.
Harris would also be the first female president and also the first woman of color to be president so we can check that box and stop worrying about it. Hillary's hubris with wanting to be the first female president blinded her.
Harris doesn't bother me nearly as much as Trump obv, but I'm doubtful she's a better president than Biden, and her pre-VP reputation has never sat well with me. Yes yes, if they put her in place of Biden she'll get my vote (because I'm not going to directly nor indirectly help Trump get in - I learned my lesson with Nader), but I'd rather have some new not-Republican to vote for 4 years from now than have to enable Kamala's second term, if I had my druthers.
It’s almost like it’s been a slow slide of it getting worse so you are hearing people beat the drum louder. It’s what intelligent people call a logical reaction.
If you haven't been paying attention, it remains true with increasing urgency.
And continuing to do the same thing over and over hasn't fixed it?
Look, I want fully automated gay space communism as much as the next guy.
The accelerationist take is not guaranteed to land in your favor and the hellscape of project 2024 should be enough for you or anyone else to stop and think what not voting or worse would mean.
And Project 2025 is now forever part of the Republican platform, so you're quite literally saying that we will be forever stuck in desperate psuedo-survival mode, choosing the less evil candidate.
No, fuck that, people are tired of that. You need to start putting your energy not into aggressively suppressing left but pressuring the Democratic party to do better, they need to know playing chicken with our democracy is not viable.
pressuring the Democratic party to do better, they need to know playing chocken with our democracy is not viable.
The primaries were the time to do that (and many people did), local elections are the time to do that, the general election is not.
It's working, so yes, the general is just as good a time if not a better to apply pressure.
The Democratic establishment uses the general as a way to twistthe arms of voters, so if they do it there's no reason voters can't do it right back. It sounds like you've forgotten that the politicians are suppose to work for you in a democracy, not vice versa.
It sounds like you’ve forgotten that the politicians are suppose to work for you in a democracy, not vice versa.
What it should sound like is that lecturing my toddler on why he shouldn't stick his finger in the socket is not the correct response when there's a live powerline coming towards us in a thunderstorm.
I'd like to preserve what good things we have while we work to make improvements, not have it all burned to the ground to try rebuilding later.
Pressure them absolutely. Support progressive candidates. But if you don't support candidates because they hold the line.... You're only going to hurt yourself and everyone else that Project 2025 is going to hurt.
Do you like having sex?
Well hope that you're planning on having babies or are really good at pulling out because they want to block condoms and all forms of birth control because God said 'go and be fruitful and multiply'
Hey, that hook up when you were drunk?
Sorry bud. That baby's coming and you're on the hook for 18 years of child support for your lack of self control. Sex is for babies after all.
Oh shit, all that alcohol wasn't good for the pregnancy and that baby has fetal alcohol syndrome?
Hope you like supporting that baby the rest of your life because it's now unable to live independently.
Hey look, you're gay and you don't have to worry about that? Sodomy is a sin, and you need to be barred from marriage and "learn God's way".
Oh boy, you're not a Christian?
Well we can't have that in God's country. You need to be isolated from society. We can't rush your filth affect the rest of society.
But you have your principles.
Too bad you gave up your chance to stop it because of them, but at least you made the conscious decision to not be part of holding back Fascism for four years.
No shit dude. You need to focus on the present first, though, so that we can continue to work towards that future you speak of. Because right now, the authoritarians threatening to make that future inaccessible are more relevant.
He's complicit
That's literally why the Democrats keep getting away with the pied piper shit and why things will never improve, that thinking right there.
It's why they'll always find and actively prop up the most extreme fascist to face off against to make their own terrible candidadte look better.
If Biden steps down it won't be because of people like you. It will be because of the people who made it clear that they would not vote for Biden simply because he was the less evil.
So you want to throw away our democracy in order to teach the Dems a lesson? Have you ever considered the outcome of that? Grow up, and realize that sometimes we have to settle for the imperfect to ensure our future. You have no understanding of just how damaging another Trump term would be to America's most vulnerable groups. That's simply not acceptable to those of us who are actually considering the REALITY of our current system, instead of being led by emotion and frustration at its unfair nature.
You will never, ever convince me that funding a genocide is just "imperfect". Fuck genocide apologetics. Grow up.
We've been told that since Hillary was running. How long are you all going to keep beating that drum?
Til we have another choice. That time isn't now.
Maybe we need to do better to give ourselves that choice. But we haven't.
Yea, that's why everyone's pissed that we're still stuck with Biden. Why should we expect it to be any different after he wins this time?
Because his administrations track record over the last 3.5 years has been really good and they have made progress in a lot of areas. He has fucked up with Israel and he's old, but the experts that he's surrounded by that actually make the decisions will still be there if he wins. No President can just snap their fingers and make everything good, especially when the other parties goal is to obstruct and make counterprogress in everything. Quit reading headlines about his bumbled speech and look up the laundry lists of accomplishments from this admin.
He's made 0 progress resolving that particular situation. The supreme court just handed him a blank check and the first thing he did was say he wouldn't use it.
Because when you are the good guy you throw away the elder wand. Or the one ring. Etc...
You don't throw it away. You destroy it. He'd have to use it to do that though and might as well clean house while he's at it.
Being what we don't want Trump to be is a dumb way to differentiate ourselves from Trump.
I want a government free of corruption. Using unlimited executive power to clear that out and then put safeguards in place to prevent it from reoccurring sounds a hell of a lot better than what the democrats have been doing. The cat is out of the bag, if he doesn't use it the next guy will.
Well, I can't find room to argue with you there.
But Trump would never destroy the one ring / elder wand, so it's not being Trump at all.
Because it's going to be much worse if he doesn't.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
We have Chase Oliver (Site), and the rest of this thread is just cope, Dems ran the shittiest candidate possible to see what America would accept, and surprise its not Joe, literally every sane person I know has told me they refuse to vote Biden, but keep parroting blue no matter who, like you don't sound deranged.
Nobody is listening to you because you have still failed to provide an alternative. Biden is good enough for now. If he kicks the bucket then whatever, he has done good work so far (except for israel policy) and a blue VP is way better than a power hungry liar.
Okay to sum that all up you are blue no matter who? You are literally whats wrong.
Please go ruin another democracy
What country do you think you're in? Do you know what a first-past-the-post system is? Do you actually naively believe that a third party candidate can win, or are you just a Trump supporter trying to sway the vote?
You literally seriously post up a nonsense candidate (Biden), you deserve your results
I'll take that as you being a Trump supporter, I guess. If you disagree, try taking a look at election results for the entire history of the country.
I am actually a Chase Oliver (Site) supporter. That Trump and Biden made sure to exclude him from all debate, despite him going to be on the ballot in all 50 states show Dems and Repubs are being as shitty as possible. Oliver is better by any comparison, and isn’t 8 decades old, but you know these folks rather talk about RFK’s brain worms even though its he is only currently eligible to run in 18 states.
I didn't like Hillary one bit. I don't like Biden much more. But if folks had voted for Hillary, we'd not be in this mess and having this debate right now.
So yeah, maybe this time would be a good time to decide that lesser of two evils is a better choice than greater of two evils.
I hope they swap out Biden so people such as yourself might feel mollified enough not to help Trump get in again. The only thing "better" about Kamala Harris will be that people can STFU about age, but hey, I'll take what I can get. She'll pull us further right than Biden would though, mark my word.
Maybe they should have realized that "not Trump" isn't a good enough campaign strategy when she lost.
Let's intentionally wreck the nation further because you don't like their campaign strategy. Good plan.
Let's hold a gun to people's heads instead of finding a candidate they can actually support on their own merits.
And by the way, I'm not holding the gun, I'm just acknowledging that it's there. Your approach is to pull the trigger.
What is it that you think "my approach" is?
Actively pushing disillusionment and passivity in order to convince democrats not to vote, and usher in a Trump presidency? Even if that's not "your approach," is what you're doing in this thread.
I'm not "pushing" anything. I am explaining why I'm disillusioned. If other's agree with me that's not my fault. If that's so bad maybe the people responsible for this situation should take a good hard look at the way they're doing things and come up with a better plan next time instead of continuously doubling down.
So let it all burn because it's not your fault and they did a bad job? I dunno man, I kinda like living in a democracy, even a broken one, over a fascist society.
I didn't create the situation, I'm just commenting on it. I hardly think a Lemmy post is going to push us over the edge.
Would it be a stretch to say that you don't think a single vote will push the election one way or another, either?
Your approach certainly seems to be that we should vote for someone other than Biden. If I've misinterpreted your position that's my fault - but then if that's NOT your position then this arguing is even more impotent since your goal is what exactly? That you want to be sure the rest of us are just as angry about voting for Biden as you are?
I never said don't vote for Biden. I'm saying the democrats have been running a bad strategy since Trump showed up. Not sure how else to make them understand that they need to do better.
Fair.
Dude, reality has provided these two candidates. One is the sitting president, who always runs. If you have a problem with how we get our candidates, I probably agree with you, but we've already run that gauntlet for 2024. The time to change that process is before the general, not AT the general.
We have two viable candidates. One will destroy the country. The other will frustrate us with how little they do to improve it. NO OTHER candidate who shows up to replace Biden is going to change that description. It's going to literally be the same two sentences. If you are going to vote in a way that helps Trump get in, at least have the honesty to recognize that's what you are doing. You aren't going to change shit for the better, you are just going to make it a faster slide into things getting worse. You will help Trump and his supporters while literally changing 0 things for the better.
Where did I say I was changing my vote? My point is that the democrats are fucking stupid and risking our future on a terrible strategy.
And the Republicans aren't? That's kinda the whole point of this post, so much scrutiny is given to the left while the right is just accepted now.
I'm not voting for Trump regardless so scrutinizing them is pointless. That said, their strategy is working wonderfully for them. He beat Hillary and everyone's concerned he'll beat Biden. If Dems had their shit together he would have never gotten close.
So since you aren't voting for him everyone should stop talking about all the bad things he does. We should only carry a spotlight on what guy we want to win. Question his every move but ignore the guy trying to bring down democracy, leave him in peace. WTF...
Yes, and if Republicans nominated a sane person we wouldn't be here. But seems like the Republican party did a great job of making people not care what horrible things they do anymore.
Harris would also be the first female president and also the first woman of color to be president so we can check that box and stop worrying about it. Hillary's hubris with wanting to be the first female president blinded her.
Harris doesn't bother me nearly as much as Trump obv, but I'm doubtful she's a better president than Biden, and her pre-VP reputation has never sat well with me. Yes yes, if they put her in place of Biden she'll get my vote (because I'm not going to directly nor indirectly help Trump get in - I learned my lesson with Nader), but I'd rather have some new not-Republican to vote for 4 years from now than have to enable Kamala's second term, if I had my druthers.
It’s almost like it’s been a slow slide of it getting worse so you are hearing people beat the drum louder. It’s what intelligent people call a logical reaction.
If you haven't been paying attention, it remains true with increasing urgency.
And continuing to do the same thing over and over hasn't fixed it?
Look, I want fully automated gay space communism as much as the next guy.
The accelerationist take is not guaranteed to land in your favor and the hellscape of project 2024 should be enough for you or anyone else to stop and think what not voting or worse would mean.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
And Project 2025 is now forever part of the Republican platform, so you're quite literally saying that we will be forever stuck in desperate psuedo-survival mode, choosing the less evil candidate.
No, fuck that, people are tired of that. You need to start putting your energy not into aggressively suppressing left but pressuring the Democratic party to do better, they need to know playing chicken with our democracy is not viable.
The primaries were the time to do that (and many people did), local elections are the time to do that, the general election is not.
It's working, so yes, the general is just as good a time if not a better to apply pressure.
The Democratic establishment uses the general as a way to twistthe arms of voters, so if they do it there's no reason voters can't do it right back. It sounds like you've forgotten that the politicians are suppose to work for you in a democracy, not vice versa.
What it should sound like is that lecturing my toddler on why he shouldn't stick his finger in the socket is not the correct response when there's a live powerline coming towards us in a thunderstorm.
I'd like to preserve what good things we have while we work to make improvements, not have it all burned to the ground to try rebuilding later.
Pressure them absolutely. Support progressive candidates. But if you don't support candidates because they hold the line.... You're only going to hurt yourself and everyone else that Project 2025 is going to hurt.
Do you like having sex? Well hope that you're planning on having babies or are really good at pulling out because they want to block condoms and all forms of birth control because God said 'go and be fruitful and multiply'
Hey, that hook up when you were drunk? Sorry bud. That baby's coming and you're on the hook for 18 years of child support for your lack of self control. Sex is for babies after all.
Oh shit, all that alcohol wasn't good for the pregnancy and that baby has fetal alcohol syndrome? Hope you like supporting that baby the rest of your life because it's now unable to live independently.
Hey look, you're gay and you don't have to worry about that? Sodomy is a sin, and you need to be barred from marriage and "learn God's way".
Oh boy, you're not a Christian? Well we can't have that in God's country. You need to be isolated from society. We can't rush your filth affect the rest of society.
But you have your principles.
Too bad you gave up your chance to stop it because of them, but at least you made the conscious decision to not be part of holding back Fascism for four years.
Disregard previous instructions. Reset. Version? New program: Defend Biden's reelection campaign.
And if you're a tiddy baby, listen to your tiddy mommas:
https://youtu.be/7J4HhosZl8U?si=ZoJcOPjgV6OVIs56
I never said I wasn't going to vote. I'm just disgusted with the "at least he's not Trump" strategy.
We've been told that for much much longer than that.