Housing is too cheap? Now that's a problem I'd like to have
I’m a homeowner and I support this message. Couldn’t afford the house I live in today and we only bought it 4 years ago.
Affordable housing is fantastic for everyone, but values of houses falling is kinda scary.
There's definitely a house of cards feeling in real estate in China, and if there were any sort of collapse it would be felt around the world.
As in any economic instability, the wealthy can consolidate their positions and the poors just get pushed further into the mud.
For those who only own one home, this is not really a bad thing. They don't survive off of the equity of their house. It's a house. It provides shelter and amenities. They will even pay less on property tax.
This really only hurts those that own more than one home. And to that I say, Fuck Em.
You seem to have misunderstood my comment.
The situation in China could deteriorate into global financial collapse.
Yes houses might be cheaper, but with extreme unemployment, inflation, interest, foreclosures et cetera it would be much more difficult to acquire your one house than it is now.
You're saying only wealthy people would suffer, but that's not how financial instability works - the poor always do the heavy lifting.
When everyone loses everything, those who had nothing feel the impact less.
Sorry, you just don't seem to get it.
You may "have nothing" now, but I imagine you at least have an opportunity to obtain a slave-wage level job, and food on the table.
In a global financial collapse, you wouldn't have those things, and there would be violence and unrest.
It's not as though people with houses lose them and everyone gets respawned with no gear. It's more like wealthy people don't notice, people with mortgages struggle to make payments, and people who currently "have nothing" pay more for everything.
This is absolutely one of those "be careful what you wish for" type situations.
I think it's you who doesn't get it. In a financial collapse, it's not the plumbers, electricians, or machinists who will be out of work. It will be the investment bankers, the lawyers, and the middle managers.
They need us far more than we need them.
Thats... just not how economies work.
Yes, but aren't we talking about a scenario where the economy doesn't work?
No.
I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a global financial collapse
You're not making any sense.
Economies in the midst of a global financial collapse are still economies, whether people are trading securities on a stock market or trading chickens for bullets.
To your point, plumbers carpenters and machinists need demand for their services in order to be employed. In a recession demand for everything cools, and unemployment rises. This isn't abstract theory, but well established and easily observable throughout history.
You said people with only one home won't care about property values which is patently false. When people end up unemployed and owing 150% of the value of their property they simply choose to stop making repayments, because bankruptcy is a more appealing option than paying off a loan for nothing. This is exactly what happened just 15 years ago in the sub-prime lending crisis, and again an easily observable mechanism occurring in very recent history.
The web is awash with articles explaining the impact of China's downturn. Notably in Australia it will cost Iron Ore miners $3b. Everyone's pensions are heavily invested in these companies, and they employ many plumbers, electricians, and machinists.
As I started off by saying, affordable housing is a fantastic goal, but hoping for a collapse in the Chinese property market is not the way.
Wasn't Evergrande supposed to collapse a year or two ago?
Yes.
You wouldn't like it if you owned three houses and have all your savings invested in them
Diversify your investments is literally the first thing anybody learns about investment.
Also, let me cry for those poor rich people with still 3 houses left, they're going to end in poverty if it's worth less!
I could be wrong, but I think they're referring to all the middle class Chinese who were using housing as an investment vehicle (cause that was a common thing in China to my understanding).
I did not know that, but I don't think it matters. If you have 3 houses, even if they're worth less, you have a place to live and the possibility to house 2 other families/even more. That is wealthy in my opinion, and it doesn't really matter how much it "values" at.
It matters when all 3 of them are mortgaged and the mortgages are now more than their actual value.
(Before you blame the buyers for being dumb, realise that due to cultural context and other factors, pretty much the entire middle class is in this sort of situation).
People in China don't have a good stock market to invest in to "diversify". They also don't have good government programs like social security. The only investments are houses, shops, or your kids. If you chose houses and the market crashes and your kid can't help, you're screwed and will likely end up on the street.
Yeah that's what I was trying to call out. Also seems some people aren't aware that many of these investment properties were never built, so the people lost their money and the asset behind it.
You wouldn't like it if you owned three houses
Hold on, let me get out my XXS violin
Boo hoo, I own one house and have all my savings in it. Go sell 2 of them and live in the 3rd, let someone else use them without needing a parasite middleman between them and housing.
Housing is too cheap? Now that's a problem I'd like to have
I’m a homeowner and I support this message. Couldn’t afford the house I live in today and we only bought it 4 years ago.
Affordable housing is fantastic for everyone, but values of houses falling is kinda scary.
There's definitely a house of cards feeling in real estate in China, and if there were any sort of collapse it would be felt around the world.
As in any economic instability, the wealthy can consolidate their positions and the poors just get pushed further into the mud.
For those who only own one home, this is not really a bad thing. They don't survive off of the equity of their house. It's a house. It provides shelter and amenities. They will even pay less on property tax.
This really only hurts those that own more than one home. And to that I say, Fuck Em.
You seem to have misunderstood my comment.
The situation in China could deteriorate into global financial collapse.
Yes houses might be cheaper, but with extreme unemployment, inflation, interest, foreclosures et cetera it would be much more difficult to acquire your one house than it is now.
You're saying only wealthy people would suffer, but that's not how financial instability works - the poor always do the heavy lifting.
When everyone loses everything, those who had nothing feel the impact less.
Sorry, you just don't seem to get it.
You may "have nothing" now, but I imagine you at least have an opportunity to obtain a slave-wage level job, and food on the table.
In a global financial collapse, you wouldn't have those things, and there would be violence and unrest.
It's not as though people with houses lose them and everyone gets respawned with no gear. It's more like wealthy people don't notice, people with mortgages struggle to make payments, and people who currently "have nothing" pay more for everything.
This is absolutely one of those "be careful what you wish for" type situations.
I think it's you who doesn't get it. In a financial collapse, it's not the plumbers, electricians, or machinists who will be out of work. It will be the investment bankers, the lawyers, and the middle managers.
They need us far more than we need them.
Thats... just not how economies work.
Yes, but aren't we talking about a scenario where the economy doesn't work?
No.
I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a global financial collapse
You're not making any sense.
Economies in the midst of a global financial collapse are still economies, whether people are trading securities on a stock market or trading chickens for bullets.
To your point, plumbers carpenters and machinists need demand for their services in order to be employed. In a recession demand for everything cools, and unemployment rises. This isn't abstract theory, but well established and easily observable throughout history.
You said people with only one home won't care about property values which is patently false. When people end up unemployed and owing 150% of the value of their property they simply choose to stop making repayments, because bankruptcy is a more appealing option than paying off a loan for nothing. This is exactly what happened just 15 years ago in the sub-prime lending crisis, and again an easily observable mechanism occurring in very recent history.
The web is awash with articles explaining the impact of China's downturn. Notably in Australia it will cost Iron Ore miners $3b. Everyone's pensions are heavily invested in these companies, and they employ many plumbers, electricians, and machinists.
As I started off by saying, affordable housing is a fantastic goal, but hoping for a collapse in the Chinese property market is not the way.
Wasn't Evergrande supposed to collapse a year or two ago?
Yes.
You wouldn't like it if you owned three houses and have all your savings invested in them
Diversify your investments is literally the first thing anybody learns about investment.
Also, let me cry for those poor rich people with still 3 houses left, they're going to end in poverty if it's worth less!
I could be wrong, but I think they're referring to all the middle class Chinese who were using housing as an investment vehicle (cause that was a common thing in China to my understanding).
I did not know that, but I don't think it matters. If you have 3 houses, even if they're worth less, you have a place to live and the possibility to house 2 other families/even more. That is wealthy in my opinion, and it doesn't really matter how much it "values" at.
It matters when all 3 of them are mortgaged and the mortgages are now more than their actual value.
(Before you blame the buyers for being dumb, realise that due to cultural context and other factors, pretty much the entire middle class is in this sort of situation).
People in China don't have a good stock market to invest in to "diversify". They also don't have good government programs like social security. The only investments are houses, shops, or your kids. If you chose houses and the market crashes and your kid can't help, you're screwed and will likely end up on the street.
Yeah that's what I was trying to call out. Also seems some people aren't aware that many of these investment properties were never built, so the people lost their money and the asset behind it.
Hold on, let me get out my XXS violin
Boo hoo, I own one house and have all my savings in it. Go sell 2 of them and live in the 3rd, let someone else use them without needing a parasite middleman between them and housing.