Smoking kills 8 million people worldwide every year. I think it's worth pushing the alternatives.
Maybe I read it wrong but what I got from it is this:
Vaping is good as an alternative to non-smokers. The problem is that it's being pushed to non-smokers. It's not as bad as smoking, but the best is neither.
nah he just hates others who choose to do thinga they dont like
The problem isn't pushing it as an alternative to already active smokers, that's what it was initially touted as...
The problem is it became the new smoking fad. People who never smoked are taking this up, and are now the new generation of hungry addicts to keep the tobacco corps alive and well.
An adult should be able to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as it doesn't impact other people. Vaping doesn't emit any carcinogens or toxic substances, and 10 times less nicotine than smoking does. At the end of the day, vaping does far less harm than smoking, and it's easier to reduce the amount of nicotine consumed with vaping. Nicotine also has health benefits, such as slowing down the onset of Parkinson's.
If teenagers are vaping then that's an enforcement issue, but at the same time I would be less worried if I found a vape in my kid's bedroom than a packet of cigarettes. Teenagers will experiement with substances. Nicotne vapes are way down the list of ones I would be worried about.
indeed man.
waaaaA waaaaaaaA BUT I HATE SMOKERS WAAHHHHHHHH 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
half the people here 👆
we get it you dont smoke. that means this aint your place to discuss something you are ignorant about
That is patently false, and even if nicotine were healthy, it should be someone's choice to inhale it, not forced on them by others with low self-control and no sense of courtesy.
The key finding of this study is that e-cigarettes emit significant amounts of nicotine but do not emit significant amounts of CO and VOCs. We also found that the level of secondhand exposure to nicotine depends on the e-cigarette brand. However, the emissions of nicotine from e-cigarettes were significantly lower than those of tobacco cigarettes.
In a scientific context "significantly less" essentially means "we were able to prove beyond our error threshold that there was less nicotine"
As such, it doesn't mean squat without numbers to back it up. There could be 1% less nicotine and it'd still be significant if their testing method was sensitive enough to reliably capture the difference.
Whereas this:
There’s evidence that nonsmokers exposed to secondhand vape aerosol absorb similar levels of nicotine as people exposed to secondhand cigarette smoke.
Along with nicotine, nonvapers are also exposed to ultrafine particles from secondhand vape aerosol, which may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease.
Would mean exactly what the person you're replying to has said it means, assuming it's true, aka. It's patently false to say it's safer for non-smokers to be around.
There are numbers to back it up, in the study I linked. Is 10 times less not significant?
The primary harm from cigarettes doesn't come from the nicotine, it comes from all the other toxic chemicals released by combustion, which aren't present in the aerosol exhaled from a vape.
Nobody is claiming it to be 100% safe (what is?), but it's not even in the same ballpark of harm as smoking is.
I'm personally all for banning smoking in public places (besides designated areas and specialty clubs). I agree that exposing people to secondhand smoke is rude at best and a health risk for them at worst. But I do think that especially in the comfort of your own home, you can do what you want (with the caveat that if vaping has similar odor issues as smoking, I see it entirely reasonable that renters can be required to smoke outside).
Then don't smoke or vape. No one is forcing you to. Please do not be a pearl clutcher and make decisions for everyone else around you. You're not God and even GOD gave people the choice to believe in him.
Okay but the only way we can not smoke or vape is for allayall smokers and vapers not to smoke or vape in places where the rest of us breathe. I can't even go out on my balcony for several of the otherwise most pleasant hours because there's a guy smoking cigars in the courtyard of the next building and the stench is nauseating. And there's always a smell of vaping in the hallway of my own building, despite it being open to the outside air at one end. Y'all are so anosmic you have no idea how far your vapor and smoke spreads.
I hate the stench of my neighbor's flower bed.
We should ban whatever that plant is.
All smells need to be banned. Got it.
Yeah, that'd be a great suggestion if it weren't for the fact that we don't get a choice in breathing those fumes in if we happen to be downwind of a smoker/vaper exercising their choice. You get to choose over your own body but you also get to make the choice over ours.
Also, really not a great comparison considering the choice is believe in me or burn in hell for all eternity, and God knows which choice we're going to make from the start (being omniscient and all)
Yeah, that's a lot of words when they could've just said "I don't understand risk, harm reduction, any statistics relavent to the topic, or science."
How bluntly does someone have to say 'this is good compared to smoking, but caused harm for non-smokers' before y'all stop projecting whatever shallow kneejerk absolute suits your fancy?
As bluntly, and as often as possible to ensure the demarcation is obvious to all.
Hate to turn your putrid argument around on you, but this isn't as trivial as the annoyance of needing a sarcasm flag to avoid Poe's Law, even though the impact of vaping on adult members of society who do not use it is merely an annoyance which causes their knees to jerk.
And your facts are wrong: Tobacco smoke kills half a million people per year. The jury is out on whether or not vaping is quantifiably medically dangerous at all. There is absolutely no data on harm from 2nd hand vaping, so you cannot say (in good faith) that it's causing harm.
Specifics matter in comparisons when the potential outcome is a total ban on a substance that has helped minimize harm for millions, and is mostly harmless in comparison.
In short - gnash your teeth elsewhere, you smug turd. You're wrong.
Is that clear enough?
We know the impact of nicotine, fucknuts. The issue is people who DO use this. Adults (for a start) who were never going to smoke cigarettes, but took up vaping, and wound up addicted to tobacco products.
No, the people who switched over from smoking aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
No, the people who don't vape with nicotine aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
No, the people who don't vape, period, aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
Childish accusations weren't enough - you had to go and underline that your dismissive bullshit was just blindly repeating 'but it's good compared to smoking!!!' Belaboring the impact of tobacco smoke... fuck, why am I bothering? You didn't read what I wrote the first two times.
Vaping was how I quit smoking tobacco and then quit vaping too. I started vaping to quit tobacco using premixed liquids for about 2 years, then switched to mixing my own so I took control of my nicotine intake. Over the course of about 8 months I kept cutting the nicotine in half. I would have a bit of a headache for a couple days then I would get better. After vaping at 0% for about 2 weeks, I noticed I was not picking up the vape as often and I could just leave it on the other side of the room and not care. About another month and I was entirely done. Previously about 1/2 pack a day smoker for 25+ years, now free of everything for about 6 years now.
"It beats smoking" is a low fucking bar... that I already mentioned.
Smoking kills 8 million people worldwide every year. I think it's worth pushing the alternatives.
Maybe I read it wrong but what I got from it is this:
Vaping is good as an alternative to non-smokers. The problem is that it's being pushed to non-smokers. It's not as bad as smoking, but the best is neither.
nah he just hates others who choose to do thinga they dont like
The problem isn't pushing it as an alternative to already active smokers, that's what it was initially touted as...
The problem is it became the new smoking fad. People who never smoked are taking this up, and are now the new generation of hungry addicts to keep the tobacco corps alive and well.
An adult should be able to do whatever the fuck they want, as long as it doesn't impact other people. Vaping doesn't emit any carcinogens or toxic substances, and 10 times less nicotine than smoking does. At the end of the day, vaping does far less harm than smoking, and it's easier to reduce the amount of nicotine consumed with vaping. Nicotine also has health benefits, such as slowing down the onset of Parkinson's.
If teenagers are vaping then that's an enforcement issue, but at the same time I would be less worried if I found a vape in my kid's bedroom than a packet of cigarettes. Teenagers will experiement with substances. Nicotne vapes are way down the list of ones I would be worried about.
indeed man.
half the people here 👆 we get it you dont smoke. that means this aint your place to discuss something you are ignorant about
That is patently false, and even if nicotine were healthy, it should be someone's choice to inhale it, not forced on them by others with low self-control and no sense of courtesy.
https://www.healthline.com/health/second-hand-vape#:~:text=There's%20evidence%20that%20nonsmokers%20exposed,the%20risk%20of%20cardiovascular%20disease.
Which bit is false?
From the first link:
In a scientific context "significantly less" essentially means "we were able to prove beyond our error threshold that there was less nicotine"
As such, it doesn't mean squat without numbers to back it up. There could be 1% less nicotine and it'd still be significant if their testing method was sensitive enough to reliably capture the difference.
Whereas this:
Would mean exactly what the person you're replying to has said it means, assuming it's true, aka. It's patently false to say it's safer for non-smokers to be around.
There are numbers to back it up, in the study I linked. Is 10 times less not significant?
The primary harm from cigarettes doesn't come from the nicotine, it comes from all the other toxic chemicals released by combustion, which aren't present in the aerosol exhaled from a vape.
Nobody is claiming it to be 100% safe (what is?), but it's not even in the same ballpark of harm as smoking is.
I'm personally all for banning smoking in public places (besides designated areas and specialty clubs). I agree that exposing people to secondhand smoke is rude at best and a health risk for them at worst. But I do think that especially in the comfort of your own home, you can do what you want (with the caveat that if vaping has similar odor issues as smoking, I see it entirely reasonable that renters can be required to smoke outside).
Then don't smoke or vape. No one is forcing you to. Please do not be a pearl clutcher and make decisions for everyone else around you. You're not God and even GOD gave people the choice to believe in him.
Okay but the only way we can not smoke or vape is for allayall smokers and vapers not to smoke or vape in places where the rest of us breathe. I can't even go out on my balcony for several of the otherwise most pleasant hours because there's a guy smoking cigars in the courtyard of the next building and the stench is nauseating. And there's always a smell of vaping in the hallway of my own building, despite it being open to the outside air at one end. Y'all are so anosmic you have no idea how far your vapor and smoke spreads.
I hate the stench of my neighbor's flower bed.
We should ban whatever that plant is.
All smells need to be banned. Got it.
Yeah, that'd be a great suggestion if it weren't for the fact that we don't get a choice in breathing those fumes in if we happen to be downwind of a smoker/vaper exercising their choice. You get to choose over your own body but you also get to make the choice over ours.
Also, really not a great comparison considering the choice is believe in me or burn in hell for all eternity, and God knows which choice we're going to make from the start (being omniscient and all)
Yeah, that's a lot of words when they could've just said "I don't understand risk, harm reduction, any statistics relavent to the topic, or science."
How bluntly does someone have to say 'this is good compared to smoking, but caused harm for non-smokers' before y'all stop projecting whatever shallow kneejerk absolute suits your fancy?
As bluntly, and as often as possible to ensure the demarcation is obvious to all.
Hate to turn your putrid argument around on you, but this isn't as trivial as the annoyance of needing a sarcasm flag to avoid Poe's Law, even though the impact of vaping on adult members of society who do not use it is merely an annoyance which causes their knees to jerk.
And your facts are wrong: Tobacco smoke kills half a million people per year. The jury is out on whether or not vaping is quantifiably medically dangerous at all. There is absolutely no data on harm from 2nd hand vaping, so you cannot say (in good faith) that it's causing harm.
Specifics matter in comparisons when the potential outcome is a total ban on a substance that has helped minimize harm for millions, and is mostly harmless in comparison.
In short - gnash your teeth elsewhere, you smug turd. You're wrong.
Is that clear enough?
We know the impact of nicotine, fucknuts. The issue is people who DO use this. Adults (for a start) who were never going to smoke cigarettes, but took up vaping, and wound up addicted to tobacco products.
No, the people who switched over from smoking aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
No, the people who don't vape with nicotine aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
No, the people who don't vape, period, aren't relevant. This isn't about them.
Childish accusations weren't enough - you had to go and underline that your dismissive bullshit was just blindly repeating 'but it's good compared to smoking!!!' Belaboring the impact of tobacco smoke... fuck, why am I bothering? You didn't read what I wrote the first two times.
Go make shit up about someone else.
Vaping was how I quit smoking tobacco and then quit vaping too. I started vaping to quit tobacco using premixed liquids for about 2 years, then switched to mixing my own so I took control of my nicotine intake. Over the course of about 8 months I kept cutting the nicotine in half. I would have a bit of a headache for a couple days then I would get better. After vaping at 0% for about 2 weeks, I noticed I was not picking up the vape as often and I could just leave it on the other side of the room and not care. About another month and I was entirely done. Previously about 1/2 pack a day smoker for 25+ years, now free of everything for about 6 years now.
"It beats smoking" is a low fucking bar... that I already mentioned.
What conversation do you think you're having?