I've been wanting to boycott Reddit for a long time, and the list of problems I had with it was very long. It took this API issue to finally get some community action.
But in short, Reddit is moving away from genuine community, and more towards fake astroturfed corporate content with manipulated comments and unabashed bot activity.
I’m seeing a lot of worrying trends.
The whole idea of Reddit is changing. It used to be the front page of the internet and that encompassed basically everything. Now it seems like there’s a lot of focus on making it advertiser friendly
Then we see Spez basically spitting in the face of the community. Mocking them, calling the unpaid mods “entitled” and just showcasing that he actively seems to despise the users.
Now we’re seeing Reddit do shady stuff like undelete comments. Destroying any trust the community may have had in the website.
The 3rd party app issue was just the kindling that ignited all the other issues
His open anger has been pretty surprising, I feel like the past year has seen more and more of the owner class going totally masks off with anger when the peasants don’t just get in line to follow orders.
Apart from Spez and Musk, what other examples are there?
Those are probably the highest profile examples.
Everything else is way smaller scale, and often more about the tone than even what is being said. There's a general "how dare anyone push back" or a complete failure to understand what life is like (some of this overlaps with the "ok boomer" stuff).
I'd point to:
Martha Stewart's rant about RTO
Many many of the "nobody wants to work anymore" rants we've seen
The tenor of Starbuck's anti-union actions
The communications I've seen from my (large) company and those at friends' (obviously not going to list which)
It's not like I've been keeping a list but those are what come to mind first.
Probably it's all linked to the post-virus epiphanies about working conditions that have lead to things like the great resignation, the concept of quiet quitting (which is a bullshit term for me) and in general a bigger conscience of how work affects life
I think reddit has just continued making more and more moves down their path towards the IPO, and all of those moves together have shown a lot of us that we're not interested in staying on for the rest of the ride. Complicity towards corrupt or powerhungry mods of massive communities with tangible effects on the world (e.g. r/politics), censorship, revenue-focused anti-user actions, ignoring the community, downplaying the value of volunteer mods and threatening to replace them... Yeah, thanks, no. I'm good over here in the fediverse now.
IMHO, the big challenge with what’s happening at Reddit and Twitter is that sensible people with reasonable asks are leaving the platform.
The only people that are left are people that believe the CEO’s disinformation, or just don’t care. So now you have a more extreme echo chamber.
I am and always have been against walled garden internets, and against corporations owning and controlling what essentially becomes a part of people's culture. I let myself get sucked into Reddit despite that without thinking about it, largely because a 3rd party app shielded need from the shittier consequences of that (like ads).
Watching spez display his true colors has just served as a reminder of why it's not okay to build your communities somewhere that is at the mercy of a corporation. There's just no way I'm going to support something controlled by someone like that. It's a matter of principle now.
It's disappointing to me how many people don't seem to see it as a matter of principle, or else don't see a principle as being worth any inconvenience, or being willing to give up anything they have gotten used to at Reddit.
Yes! Very much so. They've become increasingly authoritarian over the years. These days just saying the word "trans" can get one banned from dozens of subreddits and even from the entire website. So far kbin.social has been pretty good, but there are a lot of users who want a safe space and don't like opposing political views. Let's hope either the owner believes in free speech, or I find an instance which does :)
Guy is acting more and more musk-like, that's enough for me to bolt. But I did exclusively use RIF app for last ~13 yrs. Whenever a Google search took me to native page I was shocked at how unusable it was on mobile
One of my biggest fear is one day the reddit admins will get rid of downvote buttons in all of the subreddits. Just like how youtube get rid of the downvote button.
Yes and no.
Broadly, at this point, I couldn't care less what Reddit does. This is my new home.
In the weeks leading up to my move here though, it wasn't so much that I was concerned about the third party apps specifically. I did use one - RIF - and the official app is complete garbage, so it would've impacted me negatively, but it was more than that. And yes - the certain increase in censorship was another issue, but still, it's deeper than that.
Both of those things, and much more, are really just aspects of the process that Cory Doctorow has called enshittification, and that's the thing that drove me away. And if I was still on Reddit, that would be the thing I'd be concerned about.
So it is the case for me that it's not just about the third party apps, and that censorship is also a concern, but really those things, in my estimation, are just signs of a deeper, underlying issue.
Which I no longer have to care about.
The thing is, when reddit does it there are millions of users ready to make noise about it and investigate what is happening, as we're seeing right now. Even some large media outlets are getting in on the story.
If an adminstrator of some small instance starts abusing his power, like... what are you gonna do but take it or leave? Nobody else is going to care.
So I dunno, I'm conflicted. I feel despite everything it's harder to abuse power that much on reddit because it is kinda obvious with so many eyes on you, but then again - I prefer that power being split around so you can just leave elsewhere if you don't like it.
I put a lot of effort into my communities on reddit. Watching the platform make efforts to be more palatable to investors pre-IPO made it feel less of a community-based platform with ads to a clearly for-profit entity. I cleared my history and left.
I've also seen people saying their deleted posts/comments/and accounts are being restored.
Bots
It is both. And I don't think Lemmy/kbin can ever be truly successful without a large and diverse 3rd party app support. Everyone isn't looking for the same type of interface. It is why an "official" reddit app will never truly be successful. I was always more into subreddits that were text content. Having the interface with giant pictures isn't going to work for me. However, that is what my wife wanted.
As for censorship, that was always an issue with Reddit. But that doesn't change on lemmy/fediverse. You can easily be banned by different instances. For instance, lemmy.ml doesn't tolerate any criticism of the Chinese gov't at all. When you decide to be on that server, you are agreeing to deal with that type of censorship.
Regarding what you said about censorship, censorship on reddit doesnt equate the censorship on a federated network. Sure you can get banned from an instance but lets say theres an instance (will be more likely) that allows total free speech?
With reddit, youll be banned no matter which subreddit you go. The fediverse cant ban you. Thats the biggest difference
The fediverse can’t ban you but at some point I guarantee there will be instances that dominate with the amount of users. When that happens, if you are banned, you will essentially be banned from the communities that primarily exist on those instances.
Sure you could even create your own instance of lemmy but you will be talking to yourself.
I've been wanting to boycott Reddit for a long time, and the list of problems I had with it was very long. It took this API issue to finally get some community action.
But in short, Reddit is moving away from genuine community, and more towards fake astroturfed corporate content with manipulated comments and unabashed bot activity.
I’m seeing a lot of worrying trends.
The whole idea of Reddit is changing. It used to be the front page of the internet and that encompassed basically everything. Now it seems like there’s a lot of focus on making it advertiser friendly
Then we see Spez basically spitting in the face of the community. Mocking them, calling the unpaid mods “entitled” and just showcasing that he actively seems to despise the users.
Now we’re seeing Reddit do shady stuff like undelete comments. Destroying any trust the community may have had in the website.
The 3rd party app issue was just the kindling that ignited all the other issues
His open anger has been pretty surprising, I feel like the past year has seen more and more of the owner class going totally masks off with anger when the peasants don’t just get in line to follow orders.
Apart from Spez and Musk, what other examples are there?
Those are probably the highest profile examples.
Everything else is way smaller scale, and often more about the tone than even what is being said. There's a general "how dare anyone push back" or a complete failure to understand what life is like (some of this overlaps with the "ok boomer" stuff).
I'd point to:
It's not like I've been keeping a list but those are what come to mind first.
Probably it's all linked to the post-virus epiphanies about working conditions that have lead to things like the great resignation, the concept of quiet quitting (which is a bullshit term for me) and in general a bigger conscience of how work affects life
I think reddit has just continued making more and more moves down their path towards the IPO, and all of those moves together have shown a lot of us that we're not interested in staying on for the rest of the ride. Complicity towards corrupt or powerhungry mods of massive communities with tangible effects on the world (e.g. r/politics), censorship, revenue-focused anti-user actions, ignoring the community, downplaying the value of volunteer mods and threatening to replace them... Yeah, thanks, no. I'm good over here in the fediverse now.
IMHO, the big challenge with what’s happening at Reddit and Twitter is that sensible people with reasonable asks are leaving the platform.
The only people that are left are people that believe the CEO’s disinformation, or just don’t care. So now you have a more extreme echo chamber.
I am and always have been against walled garden internets, and against corporations owning and controlling what essentially becomes a part of people's culture. I let myself get sucked into Reddit despite that without thinking about it, largely because a 3rd party app shielded need from the shittier consequences of that (like ads).
Watching spez display his true colors has just served as a reminder of why it's not okay to build your communities somewhere that is at the mercy of a corporation. There's just no way I'm going to support something controlled by someone like that. It's a matter of principle now.
It's disappointing to me how many people don't seem to see it as a matter of principle, or else don't see a principle as being worth any inconvenience, or being willing to give up anything they have gotten used to at Reddit.
Yes! Very much so. They've become increasingly authoritarian over the years. These days just saying the word "trans" can get one banned from dozens of subreddits and even from the entire website. So far kbin.social has been pretty good, but there are a lot of users who want a safe space and don't like opposing political views. Let's hope either the owner believes in free speech, or I find an instance which does :)
Guy is acting more and more musk-like, that's enough for me to bolt. But I did exclusively use RIF app for last ~13 yrs. Whenever a Google search took me to native page I was shocked at how unusable it was on mobile
One of my biggest fear is one day the reddit admins will get rid of downvote buttons in all of the subreddits. Just like how youtube get rid of the downvote button.
Yes and no.
Broadly, at this point, I couldn't care less what Reddit does. This is my new home.
In the weeks leading up to my move here though, it wasn't so much that I was concerned about the third party apps specifically. I did use one - RIF - and the official app is complete garbage, so it would've impacted me negatively, but it was more than that. And yes - the certain increase in censorship was another issue, but still, it's deeper than that.
Both of those things, and much more, are really just aspects of the process that Cory Doctorow has called enshittification, and that's the thing that drove me away. And if I was still on Reddit, that would be the thing I'd be concerned about.
So it is the case for me that it's not just about the third party apps, and that censorship is also a concern, but really those things, in my estimation, are just signs of a deeper, underlying issue.
Which I no longer have to care about.
The thing is, when reddit does it there are millions of users ready to make noise about it and investigate what is happening, as we're seeing right now. Even some large media outlets are getting in on the story.
If an adminstrator of some small instance starts abusing his power, like... what are you gonna do but take it or leave? Nobody else is going to care.
So I dunno, I'm conflicted. I feel despite everything it's harder to abuse power that much on reddit because it is kinda obvious with so many eyes on you, but then again - I prefer that power being split around so you can just leave elsewhere if you don't like it.
I put a lot of effort into my communities on reddit. Watching the platform make efforts to be more palatable to investors pre-IPO made it feel less of a community-based platform with ads to a clearly for-profit entity. I cleared my history and left.
If you also wish to, I wrote a quick HOWTO: https://sh.itjust.works/post/114629
I've also seen people saying their deleted posts/comments/and accounts are being restored.
Bots
It is both. And I don't think Lemmy/kbin can ever be truly successful without a large and diverse 3rd party app support. Everyone isn't looking for the same type of interface. It is why an "official" reddit app will never truly be successful. I was always more into subreddits that were text content. Having the interface with giant pictures isn't going to work for me. However, that is what my wife wanted.
As for censorship, that was always an issue with Reddit. But that doesn't change on lemmy/fediverse. You can easily be banned by different instances. For instance, lemmy.ml doesn't tolerate any criticism of the Chinese gov't at all. When you decide to be on that server, you are agreeing to deal with that type of censorship.
Regarding what you said about censorship, censorship on reddit doesnt equate the censorship on a federated network. Sure you can get banned from an instance but lets say theres an instance (will be more likely) that allows total free speech?
With reddit, youll be banned no matter which subreddit you go. The fediverse cant ban you. Thats the biggest difference
The fediverse can’t ban you but at some point I guarantee there will be instances that dominate with the amount of users. When that happens, if you are banned, you will essentially be banned from the communities that primarily exist on those instances.
Sure you could even create your own instance of lemmy but you will be talking to yourself.