Families of hostages storm Knesset meeting after Netanyahu rejects Hamas offer
Family members of Israelis held hostage in the Gaza Strip have stormed a parliamentary meeting in Jerusalem to demand that Israel’s government does more to return their loved ones, as fighting in Khan Younis reached unprecedented levels.
About 20 relatives of people seized as captives by the Palestinian militant group in the 7 October attack disrupted a Knesset finance committee meeting on Monday, chanting: “Release them now, now, now!”
One woman, who has three family members taken by Hamas, cried: “Just one I’d like to get back alive, one out of three.” Other protesters held up signs reading: “You will not sit here while they die there.”
On Sunday, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, rejected new Hamas conditions for ending the war and releasing the hostages including the Islamist group retaining control of Gaza and Israel withdrawing completely. In response, a Hamas official in Qatar said Netanyahu’s refusal to end the military offensive in Gaza meant there was “no chance for the return of the captives”.
Honestly, the one thing that really surprises me about this war is how little the Israeli government cares about the hostages.
They really do value land more than human lives.
And the absolute cold blooded attitude they have towards innocent Palestinians is horrifying.
Regardless of what the ICJ decides, for me people who support Hamas, ISIS, Russia, deny the Holocaust, neo-nazis or those who support the state of Israel are all immoral persons.
And it is difficult to accept that most people are actually quite comfortable with evil. It seems to be that people are just tribal in which evil they support and which evil they object to.
Sadly, I think the Israeli government might be aware that there are fewer live hostages to come home than people think after the IDF gave the Hannibal directive on October 7th.
The possibility of "friendly fire" has been discussed more widely in Israeli news than US/Western news. For example, here's an opinion piece in Israeli's current oldest paper (refresh the page, which doesn't seem to load properly the first time):
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-israel-used-a-procedure-against-its-citizens-we-need-to-talk-about-it-now/0000018c-6383-de43-affd-f783212e0000
Ok, wow.... I didn't know that even existed.
Today I learned.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
Not just that. Freed hostages have confirmed that the IDF heli fired at them
https://www.businessinsider.com/freed-israeli-captives-hamas-terrified-idf-airstrikes-would-kill-them-2023-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T
"The reality is that I was in a hideout that was bombed, and we became wounded refugees. This doesn't even include the helicopter that fired at us on our way to Gaza," she said."
People were definitely killed by Hamas but it's starting to look like the amount of IDF friendly fire on oct7 wasn't insignificant
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israeli-hq-ordered-troops-shoot-israeli-captives-7-october
The second part is a detailed, lucid, hour-by-hour description of the Israeli military's surprise and response to the Hamas invasion, published in an Israeli paper and heavily supported by quotes from Israeli military personnel. Much more information and skepticism about Netanyahu's response to the Hamas invasion on Oct 7th has been published in Israeli media than mainstream Western media
Damn that article is pretty brutal.
I wonder what the actual count of killed by Hamas vs IDF is. At first I thought the IDF just shot a few civilians but it's looking like they did some serious numbers.
Israeli gov doesn't care about the hostages and Hamas doesn't care about the Palestinian people. It's very bleak.
On the contrary, the hostage situation shouldn't be surprising. It's been going according with the current trajectory of things.
There were 10 times as many Israelis killed in Hamas' attack in a single day that there are hostages left. They've also said they will keep performing such attacks for as long as they can.
Sad as it is for the individuals, I think Israel considers them lost and the last thing they want to do is prove Hamas right for what they did
If they're this callous toward their own citizens you can imagine how barbaric they are to Palestinians
Don't have to imagine. There are plenty of videos, photos, and news stories showing it.
So calous what, that they won't negotiate with terrorists whose sole demand is to be given their own country?
No. Hamas has no leverage. They sold themselves out on October 7. Traded their future and their home to kill 1,300 civilians and first responders. Terrorists don't get to have a country.
Hamas kidnapped these people and Hamas is using civilians as human shields in order to attract sympathy.
If you think Oct 7 was brutal wait until you hear what Israel been up to for the past 50 some odd years 🤔
Yes. Why cannot the Palestinian people seem to organize and get rid of Hamas, put an end to suicide bombers blowing themselves up at coffee shops and what not? Nobody is going to miss Hamas after it's gone. It's a shame how Hamas compromised every structure in Gaza City with a bunch of unpermitted tunneling.
Literally what did Hamas think was going to happen on October 8? They would just hide in the tunnels? Nah, their number is up.
75 years of oppression and apartheid. Seriously try accomplishing anything if this is your life. My grandparents survived the Nakba and were ethnically cleansed. Those who tried to defend our home town were killed by Israel. Add to that the Deir Yassin massacre which prompted the family to flee for their lives and Israeli settlers took over their homes and turned it into a settlement after erasing its name and history. My father grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan under poverty, had to study his way through to even make any livable wage. My grandma had nothing left from her family and struggled to build her own house to raise a family, while still hoping to return home one day. My grandpa could never finish his education and major in English... to this day he feels sorry to only have afforded to study until 6th grade because he had to work every day of his life since his family lost literally everything they had because of Israel.
Sorry we were too busy fixing our lives after Israel wrecked it, didn't have time to make huge political changes in a system we're never allowed to return to or vote in or affect in any way, in a country where we get strip searched and forced to walk in caged queues and where any of us could get shot on spot with no justice.
So again, super duper sorry! We were busy being displaced and getting over trauma.
Ah yes and Bibi funding Hamas endlessly to lead up to October 7th.
You're smart but sometimes you ask the weirdest questions.
Man, I understand all that. Generational trauma, generational poverty. Hasn't everyone suffered under Hamas and it's predecessor ideologies long enough?
I read about that massacre. Arabs began lying about the body count immediately and four days later they bombed a clearly marked medical convoy and killed seventy eight doctors, nurses, and students. What has changed?
Maybe if the Palestinian side had not squandered every dollar in foreign aid it has received on paying pensions to suicide bombers and launching rockets that practically never hit their targets, stop glorifying terrorism and martyrdom, there could have been something to negotiate about. If the national Palestinian response to a massacre is to come together and do another massacre, there is nothing to negotiate.
Oh well, now we will find out what Gaza looks like without Hamas. Hopefully the people there will soon be out from under the extreme religious fundamentalists who are running the place, escape their inevitable fate of being used by Hamas as human shields to score sympathy points.from gullible westerners, and actually have some responsibility and determination over their futures.
Do you really understand, or do you just repeat what I'm saying to make it look like you "acknowledge and understand" but then proceed to ignore it anyway?
??????
I think this is it. I'm done with debating you. We had a good long debate on many threads, but I'm seriously done. Don't take it personally, it's just tiring. Seeing video footage of people dying at every single place they went to shelter in, and then seeing you day in day out pretend the numbers "aren't so high" and trusting the IDF blindly... eh.
I think the discussions were worth it, but today is the first time I cried in a while over this conflict, and I honestly do not think (based on our conversations) you would ever be able to show empathy on a true level.
Man I am a bleeding heart liberal who has a lot of sympathy for the innocent Palestinian people caught up in this.
Where we disagree is that I think the greatest utility comes from liberating the region from Hamas and related ideologies of violence.
You should cry more often. Very clarifying. There is a lot of emotion in your point of view and I think it clouds your assessment of things.
Yeah, you're right, I can look at lot of the "reports" of atrocities and find justification for Israel. If someone says that some apartment building was bombed indiscriminately and then I can go and find the actual recording residents of the same building received hours before the bombing and videos of the airburst shells they fired as warning shots before the ordinance, it's not a lack of empathy that allows me to conclude that the bombing was justified, it's that the alternative proposal, to let terrorist win simply because they use human shields.
You seem perfectly content to let Hamas stay in charge and see another generation of Palestinians be martyred, coerced into doing a suicide bombing or ignoring evacuation orders and warning shots to die as human shields. I am not content with that. That's my sympathy. You are concerned with the lives of tens of thousands of people. I am too. I am simply more concerned with the lives of tens of millions. They take up a bigger space in my brain and in my heart.
Today Israel killed yet more civilians at the UNRWA training center and shelter in Khan Younis, and I bet you that you will find one way or the other to make the IDF look like they either did an "oopsie" or that "Hamas was there", all based on "the IDF said it, the IDF is 'reliable', thus it's probably true enough for me to believe".
This is from Aljazeera's timeline today:
This is insane to justify. Utterly insane, and yet you will confidently find a way.
Sorry for adding yet another message to this, but yeah. Bye then.
This is you being tricked in real time.
You literally don't have enough information to form a conclusion about this thing that happened in the past couple of hours, but that didn't stop you from forming one and being angry about it. You just realize your information is incomplete.
There are extensive tunnels under Khan Younis. Why is it incredible to you that Hamas would be be present there?
Al Jazeera is Qatari state media. Qatari is Hamas's largest financial supporter.
Neither the Qatari officials or their state media has any credibility in its coverage of this war.
Your statement sounds an awful lot like they should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
I am glad Israel doesn't negotiate with Hamas and has decided to carpet bomb and glass Gaza.
Btw, how much video of the IDF fighting Hamas are there? It's been over 100 days of fighting. I swear we'd have so much video of the IDF fighting Hamas.
Just the vidoes Hamas posts of the IDF getting their ass kicked lol
Do you not know what the word carpet bombing means? Why are you lying?
Why are you acting like you wouldn't immediately pivot and begin justifying it if Isreal did carpet bomb Gaza?
I would not.
But you do that in every post...
You have misread or misunderstood my point of view, then.
Everytime someone cites some horrible atrocity, I take five minutes to look into it and every time it is more complicated than presented and always involves mitigating circumstances on one side and exaggeration and reckless disregard for human life on the other.
Someone says "oh Israel indiscriminately bombed this apartment building and killed a hundred people." And you look it up and find out that before the bombing, Israel called every cell phone in the area and fired warning shots, and that the 100 people in the building were a Hamas commander and his extended family, who he forced to stay behind specifically so that they would be killed, so that gullible westerners would be tricked into sympathizing with an actual terrorist organization.
Do you agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization that must be eliminated for the good of the Palestinian people?
I think a lot of us noticed this and maybe you don't notice it yourself, but literally when presented with any terrible unspeakable thing the IDF has done, you somehow are able to find an excuse for them... Sometimes you admit they did war crimes, but you never take it to the next level.
Honestly just saying this because I've been discussing things with you for days and it's just something I noticed.
Yeah I appreciate your point of view but the evidence is patiently obvious that there is no formal campaign of genocide or "indiscriminate bombings," and there is a very simple and evidence-based explanation for the high number of civilian casualties.
Can you admit that high civilian casualties is the goal of Hamas, that such martyrdom and human shields are two their weapons?
Can you admit that even if Israel was at fault in the manner you suggest, that Hamas is nevertheless at least 50% at fault for refusing or inciting the civilians to ignore every warning and stay behind to be bombed?
No one is a human shield because they live where they live. The IDF is bombing schools and shelters and universities. Hard pill to swallow, but yes...
I'm sure many here have tried to explain this to you over and over... It's not hard, just go and read about what a human shield is.
Goodbye and have a nice life. I do hope you one day understand, though I don't place any hopes too high on it.
Hamas built tunnels under the schools and shelters and university.
Again. When they launched terrorist attacks from their tunnels, underneath schools and shelters and university, digging under the foundation, isn't it Hamas that made those buildings inhabitable?
The whole place needs to be paved over and rebuilt because of the unsafe tunnels.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shields_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
Deflecting again? Sure i didn't use the right term but the meaning of what i said is the same. Israel wants to flatten Gaza and if they can carpet bomb it they would.
Drag all the Knesset members outside and put them in combat gear. Then ship them off to Gaza in front of all the other soldiers. If you are not willing to lead at the battlefield, you have no right to lead from your comfortable offices and homes.
As much as I agree on the "no dealing with terrorist" rule, you can't expect the families to not protest and do everything in their power to get their loved ones homes.
Rereading my comment, I could see I wasn't clear. I meant the Knesset members. I edited my comment.
Lol makes much more sense now
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Family members of Israelis held hostage in the Gaza Strip have stormed a parliamentary meeting in Jerusalem to demand that Israel’s government does more to return their loved ones, as fighting in Khan Younis reached unprecedented levels.
On Sunday, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, rejected new Hamas conditions for ending the war and releasing the hostages including the Islamist group retaining control of Gaza and Israel withdrawing completely.
The families of the remaining 130 hostages, worried that their relatives’ plight now comes second to Israel’s objective of destroying Hamas, appear to be turning to more drastic measures in pursuit of another release deal, including further demonstrations outside Netanyahu’s private home.
An admission from the Israel Defense Forces last week that three hostages, whose bodies were recovered in the Jabaliya area in December, may have been killed by an airstrike on a Hamas tunnel, has also stoked relatives’ fears.
Israeli tanks reached the gates of two Khan Younis hospitals on Monday, residents in the area said, in the bloodiest fighting of 2024 to date and the worst violence in the south of Gaza since the war began on 7 October, when Hamas killed 1,200 people in its attack on southern Israel.
Joe Biden has expended vast amounts of international and domestic political capital in defending Israel’s war effort, despite a growing global outcry over the conflict’s devastating humanitarian toll.
The original article contains 943 words, the summary contains 229 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Has the general consensus changed about how to deal with hostage takers? I think it was "don't negotiate with terrorists" not long ago. Very tough for the relatives, but meant to prevent more harm in the future, by spoiling the plans of the terrorists.
When reading reports and comments about the Israeli hostages in Gaza, I get a different impression. Why is that, what is different?
Are there no concerns for encouraging more hostage taking this time?
It was never true, everyone negotiates unless they're trying to act like a big tough guy at their people's expense.
Not sure what country you had in mind. Some do have a "no negotiation" stance: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/01/we-do-not-negotiate-terrorists-why. I also had the impression it was a widely accepted idea by the general population.
Arguments can be made either way which decision is at their people's expense.
So I understand your area/bubble never favored "no negotiation", but then I'm not talking about your area/bubble. My question was about the change in attitude.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lying
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2022/01/we-do-not-negotiate-terrorists-why
Everyone negotiates, not everybody caves. They already negotiated the release of half of the hostages. If Hamas is asking for 2000 of their fighters for the rest, talks get a bit more difficult
Bibi be like "You're lucky I don't kill the hostages my damn self and make you watch!"