Fun fact: Ancient Egyptians used a base 12 for time (and in some other places) because we have have 12 segments on our index through pinky fingers. They used their thumbs as a placeholder or to count. That base 12 system then turned into the 24 hour clock system we use today.
There's also evidence of an early base-12 system in use for some Indo-Europeans -- it's likely why the English morphology doesn't become compositional until 13:
Ten (not compositional)
Eleven (not compositional)
Twelve (not compositional)
Thirteen (related to three-ten)
Fourteen (relates to four-ten)
Etc.
Cool! I never really thought of it that way.
Well shit, TIL. I always wondered why it was 12/24 hours.
12/24 is also easily divisible by more numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6
10/20 only have the factors 1 & 5
60 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30
100 is divisible by 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50
I have no idea what's up with using am/pm when we could just use 24 hours. It makes no sense to me that someone would even think to create that. Like, "Hmmm. Okay. What if instead of 1500, we say that's 3 but in the afternoon? That way there are two 3s, and people could get more confused. Jk! It's so that the middle of the day and middle of the night are both at 12. I mean, I guess everyone would already know that 0000 and 1200 are the middle of their respective halves of the day, but let's just make both 12. There's no way this could cause any difficulties. Even if 12:45 am is before 1:15 am of the same day."
In base 12 (using T for ten and E for eleven), we can have the following:
Boom! The second digit of the hour (in 24 hour notation) does exactly what AM and PM does!
Probably something with sundials. ~6am going up to 12 at noon, then going 1-6pm if night and day are equal (I've never actually seen a sundial and I'm sure people got clever with them as time went on)
I mean a sundial doesn't even track hours so much as daylight before and after noon
The oldest known writing system (Mesopotamia, I think but not sure) is base 60 and by and large influences calendars, degrees, etc today so I wouldn't preclude the possibility of an alternate timeline where this could happen based on historical factors alone
“Hundred” in Germanic Europe used to be 120 before the Romans came and introduced their “century” with a value of 100. This is still known as “the long hundred”
These number divides neatly into integer parts in many ways for their size.
They are also the basis of many pre decimal counting systems, some of which are still around. 360 degrees in a circle. 12 hours in a day.
The Babylonian’s used base 60. We still do for time as you pointed out. The minute refers to a minute(as in small) part of something. The “second” is the “second minute”. Ie a minute divided into minutes. This system is also used for geodetic cordinates. Where we have arc minutes and seconds.
60 is useful because it’s easily divided by lots of small numbers, 1,2,3,4,5 and 6, other factors include 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, and 60. This is why we can split our day so much.
The Babylonians popularised base 60. The origins of which were possibly derived from 2 separate groups in Mesopotamia, that started trade but one used base 12 and one base 5, multiply together to get 60.
You can count to 5 and 12 on one hand easily (12 by using thumb to count each section of your 4 finger). Using both hands you get to 60.
China also has counting to 10 on one hand, theory being you can indicate quantities with one hand full at a market.
Kind of. Although they did use base 60, it was largely based on a simpler, base 10, system, like we do woth our clocks, so it seems that they had a base 10, and then developed base 60 to help math
Not this again…..
Count Babylonian style. Thumb trace each section of the fingers in your left hand. Count the multiple with your right. 5 * 12 = 60.
Base 60.
Came to say this and glad I didn't have to.
Based?
We would probably even still call is base 10! There would just be two more number between 0 and 9...
Threeve and fourve
We are the nine 11 deniers. Me and my eight friends know that 11 is a bullshit number!
Damn, you just blew my mind.
Every number base system is base 10... from a certain point of view...
Reading through these comments and it’s safe to say I’d binge the shit out of a podcast series on the history of numbers. Does anyone have any recs?
Fun fact: the person who invented digital electronics constantly flipped everybody he met the double bird.
(Disclaimer: This fact may not be an actual fact.)
Fun fact: Ancient Egyptians used a base 12 for time (and in some other places) because we have have 12 segments on our index through pinky fingers. They used their thumbs as a placeholder or to count. That base 12 system then turned into the 24 hour clock system we use today.
There's also evidence of an early base-12 system in use for some Indo-Europeans -- it's likely why the English morphology doesn't become compositional until 13:
Ten (not compositional)
Eleven (not compositional)
Twelve (not compositional)
Thirteen (related to three-ten)
Fourteen (relates to four-ten)
Etc.
Cool! I never really thought of it that way.
Well shit, TIL. I always wondered why it was 12/24 hours.
12/24 is also easily divisible by more numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6
10/20 only have the factors 1 & 5
60 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30
100 is divisible by 1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 50
I have no idea what's up with using am/pm when we could just use 24 hours. It makes no sense to me that someone would even think to create that. Like, "Hmmm. Okay. What if instead of 1500, we say that's 3 but in the afternoon? That way there are two 3s, and people could get more confused. Jk! It's so that the middle of the day and middle of the night are both at 12. I mean, I guess everyone would already know that 0000 and 1200 are the middle of their respective halves of the day, but let's just make both 12. There's no way this could cause any difficulties. Even if 12:45 am is before 1:15 am of the same day."
In base 12 (using T for ten and E for eleven), we can have the following:
Boom! The second digit of the hour (in 24 hour notation) does exactly what AM and PM does!
Probably something with sundials. ~6am going up to 12 at noon, then going 1-6pm if night and day are equal (I've never actually seen a sundial and I'm sure people got clever with them as time went on)
I mean a sundial doesn't even track hours so much as daylight before and after noon
The oldest known writing system (Mesopotamia, I think but not sure) is base 60 and by and large influences calendars, degrees, etc today so I wouldn't preclude the possibility of an alternate timeline where this could happen based on historical factors alone
“Hundred” in Germanic Europe used to be 120 before the Romans came and introduced their “century” with a value of 100. This is still known as “the long hundred”
12, 60, 120, 360 are the first superior highly composite numbers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_highly_composite_number
These number divides neatly into integer parts in many ways for their size.
They are also the basis of many pre decimal counting systems, some of which are still around. 360 degrees in a circle. 12 hours in a day.
The Babylonian’s used base 60. We still do for time as you pointed out. The minute refers to a minute(as in small) part of something. The “second” is the “second minute”. Ie a minute divided into minutes. This system is also used for geodetic cordinates. Where we have arc minutes and seconds.
60 is useful because it’s easily divided by lots of small numbers, 1,2,3,4,5 and 6, other factors include 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, and 60. This is why we can split our day so much.
The Babylonians popularised base 60. The origins of which were possibly derived from 2 separate groups in Mesopotamia, that started trade but one used base 12 and one base 5, multiply together to get 60.
You can count to 5 and 12 on one hand easily (12 by using thumb to count each section of your 4 finger). Using both hands you get to 60.
https://mathsciencehistory.com/2021/11/09/count-to-60-with-your-phalanges/
China also has counting to 10 on one hand, theory being you can indicate quantities with one hand full at a market.
Kind of. Although they did use base 60, it was largely based on a simpler, base 10, system, like we do woth our clocks, so it seems that they had a base 10, and then developed base 60 to help math
Not this again….. Count Babylonian style. Thumb trace each section of the fingers in your left hand. Count the multiple with your right. 5 * 12 = 60.
Base 60.
Came to say this and glad I didn't have to.
Based?
We would probably even still call is base 10! There would just be two more number between 0 and 9...
Threeve and fourve
We are the nine 11 deniers. Me and my eight friends know that 11 is a bullshit number!
Damn, you just blew my mind.
Every number base system is base 10... from a certain point of view...
Reading through these comments and it’s safe to say I’d binge the shit out of a podcast series on the history of numbers. Does anyone have any recs?
Fun fact: the person who invented digital electronics constantly flipped everybody he met the double bird.
(Disclaimer: This fact may not be an actual fact.)
Base 12 by numberphile.
And increase our typing speed by 20%.
Yes
Little Twelvetoes - Schoolhouse Rock
I suppose we used our fingers, but if we would have used our number of hands/eyes/ears/etc we would have come up with binary.