"The countries of Central and Latin America "threw cold water" on the EU's efforts to unite the continent to support Ukraine and call for colonial reparations in a counter-proposal to the draft declaration of the upcoming EU summit."
So on one hand they are not interested in standing up against the Russian attempt to colonize Ukraine but on the other hand they are very interested about colonial reparations?
So... are they pro colonization or anti colonization?
Just like Europe isn't interested in LATAM's problems, LATAM isn't interested in Europe's problems. Take that as you will.
Just like the sounds of my neighbor beating the shit of his wife isn’t any of my concern. I have absolutely no moral obligation to help people in need.
I could say the same of Europe for the last, I dunno, century maybe. All those brutal US backed dictatorships and where were they?
Please tell me how Ukraine should suffer because of Pinochet?
Well.. that's convenient.
So then the colonization of Latin America was a Latin American problem and not an European one.
I'm pretty sure LATAM doesn't expect any reparations lol. This is more of a "fuck off, why should we help you if you don't help us" kind of deal.
Enjoy being vassals of China in the future then I guess.
Or even worse. China coups Lula in Brazil, plants a puppet who goes Russia on their neighbors.
I think it’s about showing that they want to be treated as an equal partner. Since eu made it all about their priorities they countered by replacing european concerns with latin american concerns in their proposal.
TIL Ukrainian lives are only a European concern
you seem to be presenting a false dichotomy. or you conflate high priorities with concerns.
if it's not intentional, hopefully today you'll learn that latin america prioritizing latin american issues does not mean that other issues are of no concern. for latin america there are more pressing issues.
edit: your reply doubles down on insisting that because it's not the highest priority then the only conclusion is it cannot be a concern. you are the only one claiming that latin america position is that the issue does not need attention. It looks like you can't accept that latin america has it's own priorities and dosen't have to prioritize whatever eu says should be at the top. this is more like we agree to make a joint statement and the first draft you send me is all about you you and you with no mention of me. so i send you another draft deleting everything about you and putting me first second and third place. it's a message.
The false dichotomy? Id argue that's you not believing someone can be concerned about an issue that affects everyone (global issue) regardless of location... but okay
Edit: A regional issue being more pressing for countries in that region does not justify saying a global issue does not need attention
It's interesting to see the perspective of non-Western/global south audiences compared to a Western/global north audience.
South America has suffered with American coups for many decades now, none of us want to take part on America's Proxy Wars.
You know Ukraine is located in Europe right? And this is more of a case of shoring up Europe's borders against an agresssor trying to reclaim they former territory?
Why is the agressor attacking Ukraine though, has any liberal journal told you the reason? Has any of them told you about the american military bases quickly encroaching into Russian territory?
Has any of them told you the kind of policies Zelensky implemented? No, they haven't.
Last I checked, having a military base is not grounds for invasion and sovereign countries have a right to determine their alliances.
And even if it was grounds for an invasion, which it emphatically is not, Ukraine didn’t have any and the major European states were against Ukraine joining NATO until after the invasion.
It was for Cuba...
So you approve of the United States actions towards Cuba then? Since you approve of Russias actions towards Ukraine?
Right, didn’t think so.
Why it’s almost like you aren’t basing your stance on any kind of ethical value or set of principles at all….
Last I checked, having a military base is not grounds for invasion and sovereign countries have a right to determine their alliances.
What I think doesn't affect the fact that US policy considers having a military base to be grounds for invasion. In fact, I have no influence on US or Russian foreign policy and what I think about it doesn't matter. The fact is that the policy is pretty consistent (FWIW, out of the big powers only China hasn't actively invaded everyone who drops a military base near them). Stick to the facts.
The facts include the fact that Ukraine doesn’t have any American military bases.
The Minister of Defense claims that they are (were) drawing up plans for the construction of NATO bases in the country as early as 2020.
Now, sure, Eastern European countries are well-known for being hopelessly corrupt and talking out of their asses so anything their government says is worthless, but Ukraine has consistently postured that they would like to join NATO and NATO has consistently postured that they would like for Ukraine to join NATO.
Plus, the Monroe Doctrine (which motivated US action in Cuba, Costa Rica, Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, Nicaragua, Grenada, and Panama) literally describes exactly Russia's motivations... So it doesn't matter if you or I don't like it, because geopolitics has no morals and Russia and the US operate on a whole other plane of what's "right" and what's "wrong" than the rest of us.
These countries think that they should be in control of the entire world and that the entire world would be a better place if they were in control. They trample over other countries' right to self-determination and force changes that the population itself doesn't want in the name of ideals that never realize.
So are you really surprised that Latin American countries don't want to align themselves with the West?
2020
So after Russia invaded? Did you forget Crimea?
Not to mention Sweden of all places can’t even get into NATO. You think an Ukraine that was partially occupied was getting in? You think the Russian government doesn’t know that?
Are you ignoring NATO membership for Ukraine was already torpedoed by France and Germany who are only changing their mind now because Russia decided to try and take the whole country? So no NATO has not “consistently postured” any such thing. It was explicitly decided at The 2008 summit to not offer them (or Georgia) membership. The US cannot unilaterally add anyone to NATO. Nor does the general-security of NATO get to decide that. No action plan or invitation was offered. The words have about as much weight as countries claiming they will stop global warming. Without concrete action, meaningless.
I’m not sure when you are citing the Monroe doctrine like that established some kind of precedent when Russia has been invading and neighbors before the United States was even a country.
I don’t care who Latin American decides to back. That’s their sovereign right. You know, that thing that’s being violated by Russia. I never said anything about it.
What I adressed was a comment playing apologetics for Russia with inconsistent application of its standards.
So don’t try and hide behind the some “might makes right””geopolitics” BS now.
After all, if our standards and morals don’t apply to the conversation since these are globe coinquering monsters who will do whatever they can get away then why are you still making excuses for Russia and blaming it in NATO.
Because you have an agenda.
Might makes right is literally the foundation of geopolitics. Claiming otherwise shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world works.
It literally doesn't matter what you or I think because that's the reality we live in.
Irrelevant. That countries do things forcibly doesn’t mean I have to tolerate bad actions or should be quit about when they do bad or ignore bad arguments that try and justify the bad actions.
But I’m glad we now agree the invasion had nothing to do with a nato base.
Did I miss something? Did America force Russia to invade Ukraine?
South America in favor of war crimes, gotcha.
Just like Europe has been in favour of war crimes in South America for centuries. First directly and then indirectly through supporting the US.
Nice whataboutism you got there.
There is such a thing as “the good fight”. Either you stand behind Ukraine in their fight for survival, or behind russia in their demonstration of what happens when a country is collectively falling apart due to fetal alcohol spectrum disorder.
I mean clearly there is a third option - being a knob and claiming you're always right no matter what the facts say
"The countries of Central and Latin America "threw cold water" on the EU's efforts to unite the continent to support Ukraine and call for colonial reparations in a counter-proposal to the draft declaration of the upcoming EU summit."
So on one hand they are not interested in standing up against the Russian attempt to colonize Ukraine but on the other hand they are very interested about colonial reparations?
So... are they pro colonization or anti colonization?
Just like Europe isn't interested in LATAM's problems, LATAM isn't interested in Europe's problems. Take that as you will.
Just like the sounds of my neighbor beating the shit of his wife isn’t any of my concern. I have absolutely no moral obligation to help people in need.
I could say the same of Europe for the last, I dunno, century maybe. All those brutal US backed dictatorships and where were they?
Please tell me how Ukraine should suffer because of Pinochet?
Well.. that's convenient.
So then the colonization of Latin America was a Latin American problem and not an European one.
I'm pretty sure LATAM doesn't expect any reparations lol. This is more of a "fuck off, why should we help you if you don't help us" kind of deal.
Enjoy being vassals of China in the future then I guess.
Or even worse. China coups Lula in Brazil, plants a puppet who goes Russia on their neighbors.
I think it’s about showing that they want to be treated as an equal partner. Since eu made it all about their priorities they countered by replacing european concerns with latin american concerns in their proposal.
TIL Ukrainian lives are only a European concern
you seem to be presenting a false dichotomy. or you conflate high priorities with concerns.
if it's not intentional, hopefully today you'll learn that latin america prioritizing latin american issues does not mean that other issues are of no concern. for latin america there are more pressing issues.
edit: your reply doubles down on insisting that because it's not the highest priority then the only conclusion is it cannot be a concern. you are the only one claiming that latin america position is that the issue does not need attention. It looks like you can't accept that latin america has it's own priorities and dosen't have to prioritize whatever eu says should be at the top. this is more like we agree to make a joint statement and the first draft you send me is all about you you and you with no mention of me. so i send you another draft deleting everything about you and putting me first second and third place. it's a message.
The false dichotomy? Id argue that's you not believing someone can be concerned about an issue that affects everyone (global issue) regardless of location... but okay
Edit: A regional issue being more pressing for countries in that region does not justify saying a global issue does not need attention
It's interesting to see the perspective of non-Western/global south audiences compared to a Western/global north audience.
South America has suffered with American coups for many decades now, none of us want to take part on America's Proxy Wars.
You know Ukraine is located in Europe right? And this is more of a case of shoring up Europe's borders against an agresssor trying to reclaim they former territory?
Why is the agressor attacking Ukraine though, has any liberal journal told you the reason? Has any of them told you about the american military bases quickly encroaching into Russian territory?
Has any of them told you the kind of policies Zelensky implemented? No, they haven't.
Last I checked, having a military base is not grounds for invasion and sovereign countries have a right to determine their alliances.
And even if it was grounds for an invasion, which it emphatically is not, Ukraine didn’t have any and the major European states were against Ukraine joining NATO until after the invasion.
It was for Cuba...
So you approve of the United States actions towards Cuba then? Since you approve of Russias actions towards Ukraine?
Right, didn’t think so.
Why it’s almost like you aren’t basing your stance on any kind of ethical value or set of principles at all….
What I think doesn't affect the fact that US policy considers having a military base to be grounds for invasion. In fact, I have no influence on US or Russian foreign policy and what I think about it doesn't matter. The fact is that the policy is pretty consistent (FWIW, out of the big powers only China hasn't actively invaded everyone who drops a military base near them). Stick to the facts.
The facts include the fact that Ukraine doesn’t have any American military bases.
So you are still wrong.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/10511
The Minister of Defense claims that they are (were) drawing up plans for the construction of NATO bases in the country as early as 2020.
Now, sure, Eastern European countries are well-known for being hopelessly corrupt and talking out of their asses so anything their government says is worthless, but Ukraine has consistently postured that they would like to join NATO and NATO has consistently postured that they would like for Ukraine to join NATO.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/why-nato-has-become-flash-point-russia-ukraine
Plus, the Monroe Doctrine (which motivated US action in Cuba, Costa Rica, Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, Nicaragua, Grenada, and Panama) literally describes exactly Russia's motivations... So it doesn't matter if you or I don't like it, because geopolitics has no morals and Russia and the US operate on a whole other plane of what's "right" and what's "wrong" than the rest of us.
These countries think that they should be in control of the entire world and that the entire world would be a better place if they were in control. They trample over other countries' right to self-determination and force changes that the population itself doesn't want in the name of ideals that never realize.
So are you really surprised that Latin American countries don't want to align themselves with the West?
2020
So after Russia invaded? Did you forget Crimea?
Not to mention Sweden of all places can’t even get into NATO. You think an Ukraine that was partially occupied was getting in? You think the Russian government doesn’t know that?
Are you ignoring NATO membership for Ukraine was already torpedoed by France and Germany who are only changing their mind now because Russia decided to try and take the whole country? So no NATO has not “consistently postured” any such thing. It was explicitly decided at The 2008 summit to not offer them (or Georgia) membership. The US cannot unilaterally add anyone to NATO. Nor does the general-security of NATO get to decide that. No action plan or invitation was offered. The words have about as much weight as countries claiming they will stop global warming. Without concrete action, meaningless.
I’m not sure when you are citing the Monroe doctrine like that established some kind of precedent when Russia has been invading and neighbors before the United States was even a country.
I don’t care who Latin American decides to back. That’s their sovereign right. You know, that thing that’s being violated by Russia. I never said anything about it.
What I adressed was a comment playing apologetics for Russia with inconsistent application of its standards.
So don’t try and hide behind the some “might makes right””geopolitics” BS now.
After all, if our standards and morals don’t apply to the conversation since these are globe coinquering monsters who will do whatever they can get away then why are you still making excuses for Russia and blaming it in NATO.
Because you have an agenda.
Might makes right is literally the foundation of geopolitics. Claiming otherwise shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world works.
It literally doesn't matter what you or I think because that's the reality we live in.
Irrelevant. That countries do things forcibly doesn’t mean I have to tolerate bad actions or should be quit about when they do bad or ignore bad arguments that try and justify the bad actions.
But I’m glad we now agree the invasion had nothing to do with a nato base.
Did I miss something? Did America force Russia to invade Ukraine?
South America in favor of war crimes, gotcha.
Just like Europe has been in favour of war crimes in South America for centuries. First directly and then indirectly through supporting the US.
Nice whataboutism you got there. There is such a thing as “the good fight”. Either you stand behind Ukraine in their fight for survival, or behind russia in their demonstration of what happens when a country is collectively falling apart due to fetal alcohol spectrum disorder.
I mean clearly there is a third option - being a knob and claiming you're always right no matter what the facts say