American government told the whole world that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. America used this as justification to invade Iraq and murder its people. It turns out there were no weapons of mass destruction after all.
This is why I don't trust any government trying to justify any warlike behavior. It's all a scam. There is no justification good enough for civilians and young men to suffer and die.
The politicians play chess and we die
This is slightly extreme. Go tell Europeans in the late 30s and early 40s that there's no justification for going to war against Germany. There are always exceptions.
We didn't go to germany, germany came to us.
Just like usa did many times.
And i don't think it was so obvious at the time. Russia was massing weapons, middle east had problems, and tensions were everywhere.
You're being obtuse about the definition of "go to war". If they invade your country and you fight back you're still going to war.
Fair enough. But in the context of usa it never had a defensive war, always the agressor. And the propaganda was "they have bio weapons of mass destruction and will use them", and later "they terrorists". None of which was true. Iran was far from innocent either.
Ok I concede there are exceptions but I think even in justified war the government is full of shit. The propaganda gets pumped out in full force during military actions.
Like how Japanese internment in America wasn't justified, even if involvement in WW2 was.
Now there's something that sounds like an insane conspiracy theory but actually happened.
I still don't trust the government. Obviously defending yourself is justified war. For example Ukraine fighting Russia. But there's been many documented cases of Ukrainian propaganda outright lying. They are not unique so I am not trying to single them out - there are many many many examples in modern times and historical. One of the most famous examples in the Ukrainian war was the "Ghost of Kyiv", early on into the war.
They came up with the idea of a legendary ace fighter pilot that was going around and shooting down a bunch of Russian planes. However that pilot never existed. The government even acknowledged a few months later, after this idea had become viral and spread around everywhere - effectively already accomplishing its purpose - that it was a fabrication.
This is sort of what I mean. During war, propaganda goes off the charts. There's a fog of war and the government uses that as a tool to totally flood people with fake knowledge. And sure, you might argue that it's justified because they are trying to raise their population's morale and potentially lower the morale of the enemy - but I'm a guy who wants to know the truth. So I don't trust governments when it involves any military action.
They may be telling the truth so I don't discount it entirely but I'm immediately skeptical and will try to confirm using sources that aren't directly from the government.
so like a psyop
Since giving waterboarding a go I've found myself disgusted by any government that allows the use of waterboarding on anybody - governments that encourage it are even worse, and the way the Americans handled Gitmo is fucking disgraceful.
Gitmo is still open, there's no past tense involved
And our buddy DeSantis oversaw torture there and laughed about it.
Since giving waterboarding a go
...I feel like there's some missing context here but I'm not sure I want to ask
I’m not a big fan of Whoopie Goldberg, but her way of telling (starts at 7min 53sec) about Iraq and WMD has always stuck with me. It’s worth a watch. It’s the perfect amount of funny mixed with reality.
Not just America unfortunately. The UK government did this too, their part should not be forgotten.
I always thought poppy production in Afghanistan had something to do with it. In 2001 the Afghan government sucessfully eradicated poppies, and again recently after the American occupation ended.
American government told the whole world that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. America used this as justification to invade Iraq and murder its people. It turns out there were no weapons of mass destruction after all.
This is why I don't trust any government trying to justify any warlike behavior. It's all a scam. There is no justification good enough for civilians and young men to suffer and die.
The politicians play chess and we die
This is slightly extreme. Go tell Europeans in the late 30s and early 40s that there's no justification for going to war against Germany. There are always exceptions.
We didn't go to germany, germany came to us.
Just like usa did many times.
And i don't think it was so obvious at the time. Russia was massing weapons, middle east had problems, and tensions were everywhere.
You're being obtuse about the definition of "go to war". If they invade your country and you fight back you're still going to war.
Fair enough. But in the context of usa it never had a defensive war, always the agressor. And the propaganda was "they have bio weapons of mass destruction and will use them", and later "they terrorists". None of which was true. Iran was far from innocent either.
Ok I concede there are exceptions but I think even in justified war the government is full of shit. The propaganda gets pumped out in full force during military actions.
Like how Japanese internment in America wasn't justified, even if involvement in WW2 was.
Now there's something that sounds like an insane conspiracy theory but actually happened.
There are people alive today who survived the Japanese internment. For example George Takei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takei
Aside from literal defense from invaders
I still don't trust the government. Obviously defending yourself is justified war. For example Ukraine fighting Russia. But there's been many documented cases of Ukrainian propaganda outright lying. They are not unique so I am not trying to single them out - there are many many many examples in modern times and historical. One of the most famous examples in the Ukrainian war was the "Ghost of Kyiv", early on into the war.
They came up with the idea of a legendary ace fighter pilot that was going around and shooting down a bunch of Russian planes. However that pilot never existed. The government even acknowledged a few months later, after this idea had become viral and spread around everywhere - effectively already accomplishing its purpose - that it was a fabrication.
This is sort of what I mean. During war, propaganda goes off the charts. There's a fog of war and the government uses that as a tool to totally flood people with fake knowledge. And sure, you might argue that it's justified because they are trying to raise their population's morale and potentially lower the morale of the enemy - but I'm a guy who wants to know the truth. So I don't trust governments when it involves any military action.
They may be telling the truth so I don't discount it entirely but I'm immediately skeptical and will try to confirm using sources that aren't directly from the government.
so like a psyop
Since giving waterboarding a go I've found myself disgusted by any government that allows the use of waterboarding on anybody - governments that encourage it are even worse, and the way the Americans handled Gitmo is fucking disgraceful.
Gitmo is still open, there's no past tense involved
And our buddy DeSantis oversaw torture there and laughed about it.
...I feel like there's some missing context here but I'm not sure I want to ask
I’m not a big fan of Whoopie Goldberg, but her way of telling (starts at 7min 53sec) about Iraq and WMD has always stuck with me. It’s worth a watch. It’s the perfect amount of funny mixed with reality.
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Not just America unfortunately. The UK government did this too, their part should not be forgotten.
I always thought poppy production in Afghanistan had something to do with it. In 2001 the Afghan government sucessfully eradicated poppies, and again recently after the American occupation ended.
It was oil, not poppies.