It's war. War has unfortunate and unavoidable casualties. Israel didn't choose this war and has done everything it can to avoid it. Including pulling out unilaterally from the entire Gaza Strip in 2005.
The Palestinians were left to govern themselves and elected Hamas. Hamas has received hundreds of millions of dollars in aid from all over the world, including Israel. Israel supplied water, electricity, gas, fuel and work permits in Israel. Yet, instead of Hamas choosing to build civilian infrastructure and help the Palestinians, the leaders embezzled millions and the cose to build rockets and terrorism infrastructure and pay terrorist salaries.
Israel stood by and watched the world turn a blind eye, again and again, to rockets being fired i to civilian populations. Name one country that would allow that to happen to them and wouldn't retaliate. We're done with the so-called "proportionate responses". What is the proportionate response to decapitated babies? To butchered toddlers? To kidnap and rape, and abduction of the elderly?
There is no peace to be made with an organization that lives up to it's charter claiming its intentions to kill you.
Israel and the Jewish people swore that the holocaust would never happen again.
Never again means never again.
Hamas is ISIS and needs to be eradicated.
Fuck off. 50% of the people in gaza are minors. Minors israel keeps killing. Israel has done nothing to prevent escalation. They steal more and more land and shoot people from the safety of their walls. Both sides in this conflict, the Israel government and Hamas are the exact same level of inhuman.
Israel has done nothing to prevent escalation.
And what exactly hamas did to prevent escalation?
They steal more and more land and shoot people from the safety of their walls.
And how exactly does this make it okay to attack Israel to get more Palestinians killed as the only result?
Sooo... Palestinains should just be quiet while they are exterminated, eh? Is that what you're peddling?
Your map shows 2005 as the last date. What exactly happened in the last 20 years that you think can be described as "Palestinians extermination"?
Also, yes. If you have a choice of 2 routes and one of them is "have more people killed" you would be a fool to not chose a different route.
“Palestinians extermination”?
What did you think white supremacist settler-colonialist states are all about, genius?
Also, yes.
So that's a yes... you want Palestinains to remain quiet while Israel perpetrates it's genocide.
What did you think white supremacist settler-colonialist states are all about, genius?
I mean they are clearly bad at extermination, seeing Palestinians population only increases all the recent years.
So that's a yes... you want Palestinains to remain quiet while Israel perpetrates it's genocide.
That's a no but a yes if you want. Feel free to do whatever you want (as hamas), build connections, improve your industries and society etc. But if you spend resources on nothing but building rockets and tunnels, you shouldn't be complaining that your actions are bringing death to your people. But then again, it seems you don't care about your own people if you do such a thing in the first place.
Not bringing death to your people is better than otherwise.
I mean they are clearly bad at extermination
Just like the Nazis were, eh? I guess the fact that there are still Native Americans existing in the US means the US is incompetent at white supremacism as well, does it?
That’s a no but a yes if you want.
The colonized does not require your approval to resist colonization.
I know that's a hard thing for an "enlightened westerner" to swallow while they're living the high-life off the privilege that violent colonization provides.
I guess the fact that there are still Native Americans existing in the US means the US is incompetent at white supremacism as well, does it?
That, or they never really wanted to exterminate anyone.
The colonized does not require your approval to resist colonization.
I never said it does. Go on, proceed to reclaim the land using swords and sticks. It'll be very effective 👍 but don't mind me facepalming in case it won't.
It looks like reddit is overtaken by zionist propaganda. Most of the upvoted posts on /r/worldnews are cheering for the murder of children.
Israel already killed more kids, on top of all the kids they killed this year, and they're still killing more.
Nobody over there cares. I think that site is done.
With how reddit told the blind community to sit on it and spin I'm not surprised it became a cesspool
Honestly, feels like the smarter portions of Reddit all migrated to lemmy.
Big sites like reddit are dominated by bots on these topics.
Not people.
Would you have the same response if it was said about the KKK?
Israel and the Jewish people swore that the holocaust would never happen again
Except it is with Israel as the perpetrators
Hamas is ISIS and needs to be eradicated
So what sort of solution are you proposing? A final one perhaps? Daesh and Hamas are not related, but I guess to racists all vaguely Muslim people are the same, eh?
Daesh and Hamas have the same agenda - killing everyone different than them. Decapitation, rape and indiscriminately murdering innocent families in their homes. Add to that the Muslim factor and you have your similarity. Both ISIS and Hamas are much more ghan "vaguely Muslim". Calling me a racist doesn't change those facts.
The solution is eradicating Hamas like ISIS was (mostly) eradicated. Did you cry racism when war was being waged against ISIS?
Riiiight... Palestinians "chose" this war by not blinking out of existence as soon as Europeans initiated a genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist project on the land the Palestinians happened to be living on.
Riiiiight.
This is an absurd exaggeration of the reality of the situation. This did not become a genocidal/apartheid situation until after 1948. There was an opportunity for peace in the UN partition plan, which would have required no one to "blink out of existence".
This is an absurd exaggeration of the reality of the situation.
No, the absurd exaggerations all belong to you and yours... the very idea of Israel was genocidal and white supremacist right off the bat - no different than any other white supremacist settler-colonialist project throughout the history of "western civilization." That is what Israel is a product of - it has never been anything else. It was born from the exact same ideologies that gave us the Belgian Congo, the white supremacist genocides in the Americas and the mass-slaughter of peoples in the Soviet Union for "lebensraum" during WW2.
And you and people like you are here for it, it seems.
What exactly do you mean by "you and yours" there buddy? Your view is simply ahistorical. Zionism differs from other forms of European nationalism in that it was not primarily motivated by supremacist rationalizations, but by the desire for safety. Intent is important. Today, I agree; Israeli treatment of Palestinians is clearly apartheid, and many Israeli actions are clearly genocidal under the UN definition. The further back into history you go, the less clear the situation gets, though, and is more accurately seen as a conflict between two nationalist movements in the wake of the Ottoman Empire's collapse wherein hard-line elements on both sides stoked conflict. There was a great amount of mutual respect and acceptance of Zionism among Arab leaders prior to the 1920s. I'd suggest you look up the Faisal-Weizmann agreement. The current conflict is a product of British mismanagement of Mandatory Palestine, and the initial failure of diplomacy in the face of racist, nationalist sentiments of BOTH Arabs and Zionist Jews.
“you and yours”
Oh, sorry... did I not make myself clear? You and yours refers to apologists for white supremacist settler-colonialism. Did that clear it up?
but by the desire for safety.
Bullcrap... I guess you didn't know that Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism, did you? Do tell, genius - was the original Zionists motivated by some (alleged) "desire for safety" or were they motivated by bog-standard western antisemitism?
Spoiler alert - it's not the former.
Today, I agree; Israeli treatment of Palestinians is clearly apartheid,
No - it isn't. Comparing Israel to Apartheid-South Africa is actually softballing it. The Apartheid-regime could only dream of doing the stuff Israel does on a regular basis and getting away with it. If the Apartheid-regime had treated Soweto the way Israel treats Gaza the Apartheid-regime's end would have come a whole lot sooner. It would have been a whole lot bloodier, too.
The current conflict is a product of British mismanagement of Mandatory Palestine
Again... bullcrap. I can literally google Ben-Gurion and produce a laundry list of his quotes that demolishes your argument - the white supremacist settler-colonialist state the Zionists wanted (both Christian and Jewish) was planned as a white supremacist settler-colonialist state right from the start. Birtish colonial mismanagement was only a temporary obstacle for them... that is it.
Bullcrap… I guess you didn’t know that Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism, did you?
It doesn't. The religious-academic roots of Zionism in both religions go way back. Jews were resettling from Europe to Ottoman Palestine in proto-Zionist migration as early as the 1500s.
No - it isn’t. Comparing Israel to Apartheid-South Africa is actually softballing it.
Well, then you should try reading the second part of that sentence before you have a heart attack from being so triggered.
I can literally google Ben-Gurion and produce a laundry list of his quotes that demolishes your argument
Yes, Ben Gurion is one of those hard-liners who is responsible for the deterioration of Arab-Jewish relations in the 1920s. I wouldn't go so far as to say his views represented the whole of Zionism prior to or during WWI. The situation was salvageable until Britain gave up.
Even Israeli historians will happily blow your garbage alt-history out of the water for you.
"The idea of the Jews returning to their ancient homeland as the first step to world redemption seems to have originated among a specific group of evangelical English Protestants that flourished in England in the 1840s; they passed this notion on to Jewish circles." - Anita Shapira
Even right-wing Israeli historians doesn't claim anything that can be called "proto-zionism" with a straight-face that existed before 1860, genius.
Well, then you should try reading the second part of that sentence
So which part of...
No - it isn’t. Comparing Israel to Apartheid-South Africa is actually softballing it.
...are you having a hard time comprehending?
Ben Gurion is one of those hard-liners
In other words... just a Zionist that was schooled in the white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism of "western civilization" - just another bog-standard colonizer who happened to be Jewish.
I guess you don't realize that there are a good portion of Israelis that are not white.
Immigrants from Arab countries, Ethiopia, India, and others. These Jews were persecuted in their countries and suffered from pogroms and murders against their population there. In a similar situation you would call anyone else "refugees" yet somehow these Jews are called colonists and white supremists?!
GTFO of here with that shit
Israel had segregated schools and was practicing eugenics on Ethiopian Jews in 2010 because it’s not a state for all Jews it’s a state for white Jews
I guess you don’t realize that there are a good portion of Israelis that are not white.
Why the /s ?
It's war. War has unfortunate and unavoidable casualties. Israel didn't choose this war and has done everything it can to avoid it. Including pulling out unilaterally from the entire Gaza Strip in 2005.
The Palestinians were left to govern themselves and elected Hamas. Hamas has received hundreds of millions of dollars in aid from all over the world, including Israel. Israel supplied water, electricity, gas, fuel and work permits in Israel. Yet, instead of Hamas choosing to build civilian infrastructure and help the Palestinians, the leaders embezzled millions and the cose to build rockets and terrorism infrastructure and pay terrorist salaries.
Israel stood by and watched the world turn a blind eye, again and again, to rockets being fired i to civilian populations. Name one country that would allow that to happen to them and wouldn't retaliate. We're done with the so-called "proportionate responses". What is the proportionate response to decapitated babies? To butchered toddlers? To kidnap and rape, and abduction of the elderly? There is no peace to be made with an organization that lives up to it's charter claiming its intentions to kill you. Israel and the Jewish people swore that the holocaust would never happen again.
Never again means never again.
Hamas is ISIS and needs to be eradicated.
Fuck off. 50% of the people in gaza are minors. Minors israel keeps killing. Israel has done nothing to prevent escalation. They steal more and more land and shoot people from the safety of their walls. Both sides in this conflict, the Israel government and Hamas are the exact same level of inhuman.
And what exactly hamas did to prevent escalation?
When did that happen last time?
Are you talking about this?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this?
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
No, I mean the "stealing land" thing.
Oh deary, deary me... my bad.
Here it is.
Thanks.
And how exactly does this make it okay to attack Israel to get more Palestinians killed as the only result?
Sooo... Palestinains should just be quiet while they are exterminated, eh? Is that what you're peddling?
Your map shows 2005 as the last date. What exactly happened in the last 20 years that you think can be described as "Palestinians extermination"?
Also, yes. If you have a choice of 2 routes and one of them is "have more people killed" you would be a fool to not chose a different route.
What did you think white supremacist settler-colonialist states are all about, genius?
So that's a yes... you want Palestinains to remain quiet while Israel perpetrates it's genocide.
I mean they are clearly bad at extermination, seeing Palestinians population only increases all the recent years.
That's a no but a yes if you want. Feel free to do whatever you want (as hamas), build connections, improve your industries and society etc. But if you spend resources on nothing but building rockets and tunnels, you shouldn't be complaining that your actions are bringing death to your people. But then again, it seems you don't care about your own people if you do such a thing in the first place.
Not bringing death to your people is better than otherwise.
Just like the Nazis were, eh? I guess the fact that there are still Native Americans existing in the US means the US is incompetent at white supremacism as well, does it?
The colonized does not require your approval to resist colonization.
I know that's a hard thing for an "enlightened westerner" to swallow while they're living the high-life off the privilege that violent colonization provides.
That, or they never really wanted to exterminate anyone.
I never said it does. Go on, proceed to reclaim the land using swords and sticks. It'll be very effective 👍 but don't mind me facepalming in case it won't.
https://youtu.be/KNqozQ8uaV8?si=V2aWKAbciTeLlNYm
It’s ongoing
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/KNqozQ8uaV8?si=V2aWKAbciTeLlNYm
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Consider reading or listening to this on the question of moral equivalence:
https://www.samharris.org/blog/the-sin-of-moral-equivalence
modern day nazi propaganda
Glad we're able to see it for what it is.
It looks like reddit is overtaken by zionist propaganda. Most of the upvoted posts on /r/worldnews are cheering for the murder of children.
Israel already killed more kids, on top of all the kids they killed this year, and they're still killing more.
Nobody over there cares. I think that site is done.
With how reddit told the blind community to sit on it and spin I'm not surprised it became a cesspool
Honestly, feels like the smarter portions of Reddit all migrated to lemmy.
Big sites like reddit are dominated by bots on these topics.
Not people.
Would you have the same response if it was said about the KKK?
Except it is with Israel as the perpetrators
So what sort of solution are you proposing? A final one perhaps? Daesh and Hamas are not related, but I guess to racists all vaguely Muslim people are the same, eh?
Daesh and Hamas have the same agenda - killing everyone different than them. Decapitation, rape and indiscriminately murdering innocent families in their homes. Add to that the Muslim factor and you have your similarity. Both ISIS and Hamas are much more ghan "vaguely Muslim". Calling me a racist doesn't change those facts.
The solution is eradicating Hamas like ISIS was (mostly) eradicated. Did you cry racism when war was being waged against ISIS?
Get off your high horse
Riiiight... Palestinians "chose" this war by not blinking out of existence as soon as Europeans initiated a genocidal white supremacist settler-colonialist project on the land the Palestinians happened to be living on.
Riiiiight.
This is an absurd exaggeration of the reality of the situation. This did not become a genocidal/apartheid situation until after 1948. There was an opportunity for peace in the UN partition plan, which would have required no one to "blink out of existence".
No, the absurd exaggerations all belong to you and yours... the very idea of Israel was genocidal and white supremacist right off the bat - no different than any other white supremacist settler-colonialist project throughout the history of "western civilization." That is what Israel is a product of - it has never been anything else. It was born from the exact same ideologies that gave us the Belgian Congo, the white supremacist genocides in the Americas and the mass-slaughter of peoples in the Soviet Union for "lebensraum" during WW2.
And you and people like you are here for it, it seems.
What exactly do you mean by "you and yours" there buddy? Your view is simply ahistorical. Zionism differs from other forms of European nationalism in that it was not primarily motivated by supremacist rationalizations, but by the desire for safety. Intent is important. Today, I agree; Israeli treatment of Palestinians is clearly apartheid, and many Israeli actions are clearly genocidal under the UN definition. The further back into history you go, the less clear the situation gets, though, and is more accurately seen as a conflict between two nationalist movements in the wake of the Ottoman Empire's collapse wherein hard-line elements on both sides stoked conflict. There was a great amount of mutual respect and acceptance of Zionism among Arab leaders prior to the 1920s. I'd suggest you look up the Faisal-Weizmann agreement. The current conflict is a product of British mismanagement of Mandatory Palestine, and the initial failure of diplomacy in the face of racist, nationalist sentiments of BOTH Arabs and Zionist Jews.
Oh, sorry... did I not make myself clear? You and yours refers to apologists for white supremacist settler-colonialism. Did that clear it up?
Bullcrap... I guess you didn't know that Christian Zionism predates Jewish Zionism, did you? Do tell, genius - was the original Zionists motivated by some (alleged) "desire for safety" or were they motivated by bog-standard western antisemitism?
Spoiler alert - it's not the former.
No - it isn't. Comparing Israel to Apartheid-South Africa is actually softballing it. The Apartheid-regime could only dream of doing the stuff Israel does on a regular basis and getting away with it. If the Apartheid-regime had treated Soweto the way Israel treats Gaza the Apartheid-regime's end would have come a whole lot sooner. It would have been a whole lot bloodier, too.
Again... bullcrap. I can literally google Ben-Gurion and produce a laundry list of his quotes that demolishes your argument - the white supremacist settler-colonialist state the Zionists wanted (both Christian and Jewish) was planned as a white supremacist settler-colonialist state right from the start. Birtish colonial mismanagement was only a temporary obstacle for them... that is it.
It doesn't. The religious-academic roots of Zionism in both religions go way back. Jews were resettling from Europe to Ottoman Palestine in proto-Zionist migration as early as the 1500s.
Well, then you should try reading the second part of that sentence before you have a heart attack from being so triggered.
Yes, Ben Gurion is one of those hard-liners who is responsible for the deterioration of Arab-Jewish relations in the 1920s. I wouldn't go so far as to say his views represented the whole of Zionism prior to or during WWI. The situation was salvageable until Britain gave up.
Even Israeli historians will happily blow your garbage alt-history out of the water for you.
"The idea of the Jews returning to their ancient homeland as the first step to world redemption seems to have originated among a specific group of evangelical English Protestants that flourished in England in the 1840s; they passed this notion on to Jewish circles." - Anita Shapira
Even right-wing Israeli historians doesn't claim anything that can be called "proto-zionism" with a straight-face that existed before 1860, genius.
So which part of...
...are you having a hard time comprehending?
In other words... just a Zionist that was schooled in the white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism of "western civilization" - just another bog-standard colonizer who happened to be Jewish.
I guess you don't realize that there are a good portion of Israelis that are not white.
Immigrants from Arab countries, Ethiopia, India, and others. These Jews were persecuted in their countries and suffered from pogroms and murders against their population there. In a similar situation you would call anyone else "refugees" yet somehow these Jews are called colonists and white supremists?!
GTFO of here with that shit
Israel had segregated schools and was practicing eugenics on Ethiopian Jews in 2010 because it’s not a state for all Jews it’s a state for white Jews
Are you sure you realize that?
Gee whiz... black folk protesting because of white supremacist harrassment - I wonder why that sounds so familiar? Can't quite put my finger on it...
No. You take your white supremacist colonialist apologia and shove it where the sun don't shine, fascist.