Considering that literally the only other options would be objectively worse, and would give the openly fascistic party a better chance at winning, are they wrong tho?
I fucking hate the stranglehold on power that the 2 party system gives to both parties, and how it allows them to hold our votes hostage. But at the same time I'm a pragmatist who understands how electoral politics works, and also someone who understands that while voting won't get you to a utopia, not voting can absolutely help push the country farther and farther away (as we saw in 2016).
I'm absolutely not going to be the guy that tries to guilt people into voting against the fascists even if it means holding their nose for a party they don't like (which is where I've landed), but there really isn't a much better option available that isn't directly against peoples' better interests. I'd love to hear where I'm wrong or overlooking something better, but I haven't seen it yet.
I agree. It's a huge gambit that is unlikely to pay off.
Why? Because despite valid concerns over Israeli aggression and Palestinian oppression, support for Israel is still high and for every Muslim you try to reach out in support you risk ostracizing the predominantly Democratic Jewish voters (which roughly doubles Muslim population) all the same. I'd hate to be the analyst for Biden on that, but it's pretty cut-and-dry.
Right but... they don't want Trump to be president. They want someone like Biden to be (or Biden) and for Biden to not support a brewing 'Hot' Genocide (It was already arguably one and I don't know the proper terms here). It's just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It's a game of chicken.
It's just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It's a game of chicken.
I don't disagree with what you said, but this right here is the most correct. My only point was that their leverage amounts to holding a grenade and pulling the pin. Sure, they'll hurt the Dems for not doing the right thing, but they're still going to hurt themselves much worse.
Orrrrr all the ones who claim third parties can’t win could actually find a decent nominee and vote for them.
I’ll take: things that will never happen for a thousand. We keep doing what works against us rather than try something that will.
The problem with that is, because of the duopoly on federal power right now, third parties are neutered on the national level. Voting for them nationally is little more than a token gesture, and does more harm then good.
It sucks, and I hate it, but its also the truth. State and local races benefit more from third party/independent votes, which is where attention should be more focused.
I do sympathize with those disenfranchised by the lesser of two evils party. Its a difficult position to be in.
It’s sad that you can’t imagine enough people getting over their “protect the abuser at all costs” to actually try.
75 million people voted for Trump. More than that many people would need to try. Together.
We're still struggling to get unions at individual workplaces to be commonplace. I dont think my doubts are particularly unfounded.
Do you have the same feelings for those who suffer battered partner syndrome, with children? Why don’t you have the same amount of compassion for millions of us who want to get out of a bad relationship with abusive politicians?
Millions haven't voted for a third party in a century, maybe longer.
A third party winning and overtaking the democrats would take splitting the vote for at least a decade, maybe more, and therefore letting fascists have complete control for that duration.
This is not a logical way of gaining working class power, so please get off your high horse when democracy is literally at stake.
Let's not forget that the Republicans are actively stripping voting rights away. Do leftists really think letting them win is gonna be a good strategy for any hope to change the system?
I say this as a leftist that it is ludicrous to think letting the Republicans win (as that is all voting 3rd party federally will accomplish). Let's not delude ourselves into thinking either A) the Republicans would actually let any left-leaning power bloc or parry exist or B) people stuck under Republicans will violently overthrow them and institute left-leaning policies/government.
You're preaching to the choir, lol. What's most astounding to me is that this 3 partyist position has gotten more popular after the half success of Bernie Sanders.
Like a socialist almost made it into the White House, and socialism is more mainstream in this country than ever before, and now they want to go back to the old way of trying things.
Moooom, JUST LEAVE!
What openly fascist party?
The proper grammar here is “which”
No, because that would imply that I think there are multiple openly fascist parties and I'm asking for clarification on which one they're talking about
Considering that literally the only other options would be objectively worse, and would give the openly fascistic party a better chance at winning, are they wrong tho?
I fucking hate the stranglehold on power that the 2 party system gives to both parties, and how it allows them to hold our votes hostage. But at the same time I'm a pragmatist who understands how electoral politics works, and also someone who understands that while voting won't get you to a utopia, not voting can absolutely help push the country farther and farther away (as we saw in 2016).
I'm absolutely not going to be the guy that tries to guilt people into voting against the fascists even if it means holding their nose for a party they don't like (which is where I've landed), but there really isn't a much better option available that isn't directly against peoples' better interests. I'd love to hear where I'm wrong or overlooking something better, but I haven't seen it yet.
I agree. It's a huge gambit that is unlikely to pay off.
Why? Because despite valid concerns over Israeli aggression and Palestinian oppression, support for Israel is still high and for every Muslim you try to reach out in support you risk ostracizing the predominantly Democratic Jewish voters (which roughly doubles Muslim population) all the same. I'd hate to be the analyst for Biden on that, but it's pretty cut-and-dry.
Right but... they don't want Trump to be president. They want someone like Biden to be (or Biden) and for Biden to not support a brewing 'Hot' Genocide (It was already arguably one and I don't know the proper terms here). It's just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It's a game of chicken.
I don't disagree with what you said, but this right here is the most correct. My only point was that their leverage amounts to holding a grenade and pulling the pin. Sure, they'll hurt the Dems for not doing the right thing, but they're still going to hurt themselves much worse.
Orrrrr all the ones who claim third parties can’t win could actually find a decent nominee and vote for them.
I’ll take: things that will never happen for a thousand. We keep doing what works against us rather than try something that will.
The problem with that is, because of the duopoly on federal power right now, third parties are neutered on the national level. Voting for them nationally is little more than a token gesture, and does more harm then good.
It sucks, and I hate it, but its also the truth. State and local races benefit more from third party/independent votes, which is where attention should be more focused.
I do sympathize with those disenfranchised by the lesser of two evils party. Its a difficult position to be in.
It’s sad that you can’t imagine enough people getting over their “protect the abuser at all costs” to actually try.
75 million people voted for Trump. More than that many people would need to try. Together.
We're still struggling to get unions at individual workplaces to be commonplace. I dont think my doubts are particularly unfounded.
Do you have the same feelings for those who suffer battered partner syndrome, with children? Why don’t you have the same amount of compassion for millions of us who want to get out of a bad relationship with abusive politicians?
Millions haven't voted for a third party in a century, maybe longer. A third party winning and overtaking the democrats would take splitting the vote for at least a decade, maybe more, and therefore letting fascists have complete control for that duration.
This is not a logical way of gaining working class power, so please get off your high horse when democracy is literally at stake.
Let's not forget that the Republicans are actively stripping voting rights away. Do leftists really think letting them win is gonna be a good strategy for any hope to change the system?
I say this as a leftist that it is ludicrous to think letting the Republicans win (as that is all voting 3rd party federally will accomplish). Let's not delude ourselves into thinking either A) the Republicans would actually let any left-leaning power bloc or parry exist or B) people stuck under Republicans will violently overthrow them and institute left-leaning policies/government.
You're preaching to the choir, lol. What's most astounding to me is that this 3 partyist position has gotten more popular after the half success of Bernie Sanders.
Like a socialist almost made it into the White House, and socialism is more mainstream in this country than ever before, and now they want to go back to the old way of trying things.
Moooom, JUST LEAVE!
What openly fascist party?
The proper grammar here is “which”
No, because that would imply that I think there are multiple openly fascist parties and I'm asking for clarification on which one they're talking about