That Israel built the bunker that they are claiming justifies them bombing the hospital it was under looks really bad for Israel. Why would he lie about that?
He's saying Israel built it for Hamas. That's the bullshit part.
No, he's saying Israel built it for Israel's purposes. He's claiming that Hamas has been using it (presumably since Israel pulled out of Gaza in '05). But Israel using structures it built as casus belli to blow up a hospital looks really bad on Israel's part.
I think any reason to blow up a hospital makes Israel look bad, but if I misunderstood what he meant, fair enough.
The justification is that Hamas uses hospitals for their purposes and they have bunkers and tunnels there. Why would it matter who build the bunkers? IDF is trying to destroy Hamas who uses hospital (with bunkers). Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
I'm sure Israel would love people to think they built bunkers under a hospital for medical use.
Why else would they build them? This was before Hamas came to power, when Israel was occupying Gaza permanently.
To store munitions? That's what bunkers are for. Or do you think Israel wouldn't store munitions in Gaza?
No, bunkers are actually for people to survive airstrikes and shelling. It even makes sense having one near a hospital, because sick people can't go fast when the sirens go off. Usually responsible governments build bunkers for their citizens when there is a chance of war. Military sometimes has command bunkers, but they are not for and not near civillians.
So Israel did not use bunkers to store weapons but Hamas did. Seems a little propagandistic to me.
idk I'm someone else. ... but I think hamas is very stupid, so it appears plausible to me they used a perfectly good bunker to store wapons instead of sheltering people. Not sure if they really did tho.
Well the crux here is that it's not a bunker but a basement. Of course the Israeli government likes the translation into 'bunker' a little bit better
Why would they do it under hospital? I understand the ugly logic of Hamas doing this, but Israel would not make any sense. There was no reporting of them doing that, ever.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte Remember, it's Israel claiming what those bunkers are used for and by whom, and they are well known to lie.
Generally speaking, never trust anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Unfortunately, I trust Hamas even less. However, there was an interview of a doctor who worked at this hospital, who did confirm that Hamas was using it.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It's not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn't, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let's not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren't
No, he was not under duress. He was given interview in UK.
Was than Hamas? The one whose goal is to “run Jews to the sea”? The one who started all this by purportedly killing civilians? Really?
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte You say that as we're literally watching the Israeli conduct ethnic cleansing for the past several decades of the Palestinian people. So yes demonstrable the Israeli are worse.
I mean literally months before October 7th the Israeli were murdering Palestinian children in the West Bank... where Hamas isn't. You might want to catch up on what's really going on in the Occupied territories
Yes, a mob of people, that includes 17 y. o. “children” throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at armed people/vehicles and being shot in response (and how military police would know that they are 17 and not 18?) is TOTALY equivalent or even worse than what Hamas did when purposely hunting and cruelly killing more than 1000 civilians. Do you even try thinking before you post?
Today you are watching war, in which IDF is hunting Hamas for attacking Israel and killing more than 1000 people. Hamas uses civilians as human shields that leads to additional deaths that otherwise would happen in any war. After Hamas killed those civilians, Israel had no other alternative but to react to this. Hamas has main objectives to destroy Israel and as long mg as it exists, it will try to repeat the massacres again and again, and there would be no peace and Palestinian people are and will be suffering because of that. Put the blame where it is - on the terrorist organizations that uses their own citizens as human shields in order to create reaction from people like you. And the more you react the more Hamas will use human shields for its perposes - because it’s working and Palestinians be damned. Only complete elimination of Hamas can have chance of peace.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte That was a long winded way of saying that you just started paying attention after Oct 7th and are entirely ignorant of what atrocities Israel committed against the Palestinians prior to that date.
You are attempting to justify Israeli ethnic cleansing that has been occurring since LONG before October 7th, which has cost thousands of Palestinian lives and maimed even more. The Israeli aren't the victims, they are the invaders by their own admission
I mean, in Barak's mind he's probably attempting to justify the bombing. In a sane person's eyes it looks really bad.
Maybe that's the problem. The so-called justification just went over my head. Because it's fucking nuts. How many innocent people who were in need of hospital care did they kill? Including children? And then claim it's because Hamas uses human shields...
Why the fuck people trust anything this liar says is beyond me. He was defense minister during the Gaza war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)
That Israel built the bunker that they are claiming justifies them bombing the hospital it was under looks really bad for Israel. Why would he lie about that?
He's saying Israel built it for Hamas. That's the bullshit part.
No, he's saying Israel built it for Israel's purposes. He's claiming that Hamas has been using it (presumably since Israel pulled out of Gaza in '05). But Israel using structures it built as casus belli to blow up a hospital looks really bad on Israel's part.
I think any reason to blow up a hospital makes Israel look bad, but if I misunderstood what he meant, fair enough.
The justification is that Hamas uses hospitals for their purposes and they have bunkers and tunnels there. Why would it matter who build the bunkers? IDF is trying to destroy Hamas who uses hospital (with bunkers). Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
I'm sure Israel would love people to think they built bunkers under a hospital for medical use.
Why else would they build them? This was before Hamas came to power, when Israel was occupying Gaza permanently.
To store munitions? That's what bunkers are for. Or do you think Israel wouldn't store munitions in Gaza?
No, bunkers are actually for people to survive airstrikes and shelling. It even makes sense having one near a hospital, because sick people can't go fast when the sirens go off. Usually responsible governments build bunkers for their citizens when there is a chance of war. Military sometimes has command bunkers, but they are not for and not near civillians.
So Israel did not use bunkers to store weapons but Hamas did. Seems a little propagandistic to me.
idk I'm someone else. ... but I think hamas is very stupid, so it appears plausible to me they used a perfectly good bunker to store wapons instead of sheltering people. Not sure if they really did tho.
Well the crux here is that it's not a bunker but a basement. Of course the Israeli government likes the translation into 'bunker' a little bit better
Why would they do it under hospital? I understand the ugly logic of Hamas doing this, but Israel would not make any sense. There was no reporting of them doing that, ever.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte Remember, it's Israel claiming what those bunkers are used for and by whom, and they are well known to lie.
Generally speaking, never trust anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Unfortunately, I trust Hamas even less. However, there was an interview of a doctor who worked at this hospital, who did confirm that Hamas was using it.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It's not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn't, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let's not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren't
No, he was not under duress. He was given interview in UK.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte Citation?
Sorry, don’t remember where. I think it was posted in fediverse with a link.
EDIT: not the original source, but I found it by googling:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12770641/amp/gaza-al-shifa-hospital-british-doctor-claim-hamas-warning.html
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte "a British doctor"
Umm, yeah that sounds _totally_ reputable /s
Are you really this naive?
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte That's fair, they're terrorists. That said, Israel by every measure is worse
Was than Hamas? The one whose goal is to “run Jews to the sea”? The one who started all this by purportedly killing civilians? Really?
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte You say that as we're literally watching the Israeli conduct ethnic cleansing for the past several decades of the Palestinian people. So yes demonstrable the Israeli are worse.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children
I mean literally months before October 7th the Israeli were murdering Palestinian children in the West Bank... where Hamas isn't. You might want to catch up on what's really going on in the Occupied territories
Yes, a mob of people, that includes 17 y. o. “children” throwing stones and Molotov cocktails at armed people/vehicles and being shot in response (and how military police would know that they are 17 and not 18?) is TOTALY equivalent or even worse than what Hamas did when purposely hunting and cruelly killing more than 1000 civilians. Do you even try thinking before you post?
Today you are watching war, in which IDF is hunting Hamas for attacking Israel and killing more than 1000 people. Hamas uses civilians as human shields that leads to additional deaths that otherwise would happen in any war. After Hamas killed those civilians, Israel had no other alternative but to react to this. Hamas has main objectives to destroy Israel and as long mg as it exists, it will try to repeat the massacres again and again, and there would be no peace and Palestinian people are and will be suffering because of that. Put the blame where it is - on the terrorist organizations that uses their own citizens as human shields in order to create reaction from people like you. And the more you react the more Hamas will use human shields for its perposes - because it’s working and Palestinians be damned. Only complete elimination of Hamas can have chance of peace.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte That was a long winded way of saying that you just started paying attention after Oct 7th and are entirely ignorant of what atrocities Israel committed against the Palestinians prior to that date.
You are attempting to justify Israeli ethnic cleansing that has been occurring since LONG before October 7th, which has cost thousands of Palestinian lives and maimed even more. The Israeli aren't the victims, they are the invaders by their own admission
I mean, in Barak's mind he's probably attempting to justify the bombing. In a sane person's eyes it looks really bad.
Maybe that's the problem. The so-called justification just went over my head. Because it's fucking nuts. How many innocent people who were in need of hospital care did they kill? Including children? And then claim it's because Hamas uses human shields...
Well tbf they haven't blown it up (yet)
No isreal built it so they'd have an excuse to genocide palestinians by claiming hamas was hiding there.