it sounds like israel built a bunker under a hospital, and is now bombing it because they suspect hamas is using it because they took hostages there?
The proper solution for this is to search the hospital not bomb it.
But then they wouldn't be able to genocide Palestinians. So not really a solution for them is it? /S
Netanyahu and his right wing govt is fucking unhinged and his intentions toward Palestinians seem to have been clear for many years from the sounds of it. Israelis needs a very different set of leaders that aren't genocidal monsters.
Why are people standing in the way of Israel solving the Palestinian problem once and for all with a final solution?!
/s
I agree, if the Palestinians weren't so bad, why don't the other nations just take them all in? it was eye-opening to see how much literal Nazi rhetoric the "support Israel, or you're an antisemite" have been getting into.
but searching it might find evidence that its not being used, and thus not give them the excuse to bomb a hospital and kill tons of people.
Well you'll be happy to learn they are, in fact, searching it now. And part of it is the storage basement that they built themselves
Which is why they didn't bomb it directly, but instead searched it. People then shifted the goal posts again and said they shouldn't be there. Also, the part they built was meant to just be a laundry room and some offices. It's not part of the tunnel network Hamas built under that.
The one we haven't seen and Israel refuses to prove in any meaningful way?
Actually they did bomb it directly and caused damage to the building. They then terrorized every patient, kidnapped 200 people to an unknown location, and THEN went in to search but of course they found no tunnel inside the hospital itself (because why on earth would a Hamas fighter put the opening there?).
So that's why they were so certain of the bunker's existence. 😅
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have targeted Gaza's biggest medical facility which it said was the site of a Hamas command center, a charge denied by the group.
Amid widespread condemnation about Israel's targeting of the hospital, CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour asked Barak if the IDF and the Israeli government had done a "good enough job of proving their claim" that there was a "major" Hamas command center and bunker under Shifa.
Barak replied "It's already been known for many years that they have a bunker that originally was built by Israeli constructors underneath Shifa," which was used as a "command post" for Hamas and as a "junction of several tunnels"
BBC Verify said that the Israeli footage appeared to have been recorded before reporters arrived and that the earlier clip showed fewer weapons which the IDF later explained was because more weaponry had been found later in the day.
BBC analysis editor Ros Atkins on November 17 said the IDF video was posted, then deleted, and reposted again, with references to an Israeli soldier held hostage removed.
"We don't know the reasons for that edit, nor how significant it is," Atkins said in the video which as of Tuesday had received 12.4 million views, adding that Israel's military "says suggestions it is manipulating the media are incorrect."
The original article contains 692 words, the summary contains 217 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Literally not talking about the tunnels and bunkers shown recently which are built in Hamas style developed over the last 15 or so years.
The shafts and tunnels are built in a certain style with parts made in gaza. This is all visible.
"hamas style" is that like art Deco? Maybe art Nuevo?
You mean the place the hospital is located and constructed? Weird things in Gaza would be built in Gaza.
Hamas-chic
Made of a garbonzo bean based cement?
Terrorism just got delicious.
Umami Bin Ladel'd
They use a specific type of cement piece construction they developed over time to let them build tunnels quickly for cheap. It's been documented historically and proudly by Hamas.
It's the shape of the stone arches and the smaller U shaped pieces in the shaft that tell you it wasn't Israeli built.
So a "technique" that would be easy and cheap to replicate rapidly. Is it not then suspicious it's been quite some time between raid and any amount of investigation?
Ah, glad we have an expert in primitive construction and not just that but one who's seen these tunnels in person. What's your name again so we can verify your conclusion?
Literally go watch the videos of journalists in the tunnels. Nothing will change your mind.
It takes time to disarm a possibly booby trapped tunnel and avoid potentially collapsing the buildings with civilians on top. It takes time to do an investigation of a crime scene.
Yes, isreali approved releases of ungeolocated video by approved journalists, not investigators.
We knew there were bunkers under all shifa, we knew there were tunnels under al shifa, we know both of these things because Israel used them when they controlled the hospital. What we don't have is a. Proof hamas made them, b. That is used offensively c. That there was any use prior to Israel breaking a wall down to gain access to tunnels and bunkers they admit they built.
Ditto bud, your own sources say they do not look recently used.
Also the proof is that hamas made them in their own style, far away from the Israeli built Bunker and on lower levels.
They're own style, you mean the Roman Arch and a fucking wall? Who could have thought of that aside from ww1 trenches, WW2 trenches, isreali trenches or I dunno literally anyone past like 1000bc.
Literally nothing with change your delusions in reality. So I'm going to stop bothering.
It's delusional to want evidence from experts who are actually there, not from journalists who have a perverse incentive to release only what Israel allows.
Wait for things to actually be investigated before calling it proof. It's absurd to take sides during a war with evidence that's solely controlled by one party and supported only by their allies.
Wait, see. Don't trust the people who have a track record of lying about the same shit they're talking about now and that goes equally to Hamas as it does to Israel.
But you know, logic huh? Why bother, who needs that. We all know the scientific method is "trust Ted, it benefits him more than anyone but why would ted lie?"
They are used recently but have had weeks to clear out, as stated
It doesn't say that at all, the best consensus of your sources is that they do not look recently used.
Literally in the footage they point out it's got working AC, and have had days/weeks to beat it.
Oh you mean the power in an Israeli bunker is on after isrealis have had access, weird huh.
It's been geolocated. Try again.
Quad replies, ooo touched as nerve huh. Also no they haven't.
Yes they have including by all the international journalists who have been there in the last few days.
No they haven't, Israel won't let them.
Did Israel build the one they based their attack around?
No, quite literally. It's been known Hamas does this shit for 10 years. More than a few prisoners reported it in interrogations.
Once the geolocated shafts were shown on video and by reporters it became glaringly apparent Israel didn't build those. The weird misinformation around the Bunker they did build is some weird delusions.
Yes, Hamas would use an Israeli company to build their secret bunker. That sounds very plausible indeed. Hamas is well-known to be trusting of Israelis.
Edit: I don't even think they bombed the hospital because of a bunker in the first place.
Also, a surprising number of people seem to be taking the word of an ex-Israeli PM as truth around here.
Ehud Barak: "No, decades ago, we were running the place... we helped them to build these bunkers."
Why the fuck people trust anything this liar says is beyond me. He was defense minister during the Gaza war.
That Israel built the bunker that they are claiming justifies them bombing the hospital it was under looks really bad for Israel. Why would he lie about that?
He's saying Israel built it for Hamas. That's the bullshit part.
No, he's saying Israel built it for Israel's purposes. He's claiming that Hamas has been using it (presumably since Israel pulled out of Gaza in '05). But Israel using structures it built as casus belli to blow up a hospital looks really bad on Israel's part.
I think any reason to blow up a hospital makes Israel look bad, but if I misunderstood what he meant, fair enough.
The justification is that Hamas uses hospitals for their purposes and they have bunkers and tunnels there. Why would it matter who build the bunkers? IDF is trying to destroy Hamas who uses hospital (with bunkers). Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
I'm sure Israel would love people to think they built bunkers under a hospital for medical use.
Why else would they build them? This was before Hamas came to power, when Israel was occupying Gaza permanently.
To store munitions? That's what bunkers are for. Or do you think Israel wouldn't store munitions in Gaza?
No, bunkers are actually for people to survive airstrikes and shelling. It even makes sense having one near a hospital, because sick people can't go fast when the sirens go off. Usually responsible governments build bunkers for their citizens when there is a chance of war. Military sometimes has command bunkers, but they are not for and not near civillians.
Why would they do it under hospital? I understand the ugly logic of Hamas doing this, but Israel would not make any sense. There was no reporting of them doing that, ever.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte Remember, it's Israel claiming what those bunkers are used for and by whom, and they are well known to lie.
Generally speaking, never trust anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Unfortunately, I trust Hamas even less. However, there was an interview of a doctor who worked at this hospital, who did confirm that Hamas was using it.
@MxM111@jeena@FlyingSquid@grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It's not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn't, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let's not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren't
No, he was not under duress. He was given interview in UK.
I mean, in Barak's mind he's probably attempting to justify the bombing. In a sane person's eyes it looks really bad.
Maybe that's the problem. The so-called justification just went over my head. Because it's fucking nuts. How many innocent people who were in need of hospital care did they kill? Including children? And then claim it's because Hamas uses human shields...
it sounds like israel built a bunker under a hospital, and is now bombing it because they suspect hamas is using it because they took hostages there?
The proper solution for this is to search the hospital not bomb it.
But then they wouldn't be able to genocide Palestinians. So not really a solution for them is it? /S
Netanyahu and his right wing govt is fucking unhinged and his intentions toward Palestinians seem to have been clear for many years from the sounds of it. Israelis needs a very different set of leaders that aren't genocidal monsters.
Why are people standing in the way of Israel solving the Palestinian problem once and for all with a final solution?! /s
I agree, if the Palestinians weren't so bad, why don't the other nations just take them all in? it was eye-opening to see how much literal Nazi rhetoric the "support Israel, or you're an antisemite" have been getting into.
but searching it might find evidence that its not being used, and thus not give them the excuse to bomb a hospital and kill tons of people.
Well you'll be happy to learn they are, in fact, searching it now. And part of it is the storage basement that they built themselves
Which is why they didn't bomb it directly, but instead searched it. People then shifted the goal posts again and said they shouldn't be there. Also, the part they built was meant to just be a laundry room and some offices. It's not part of the tunnel network Hamas built under that.
The one we haven't seen and Israel refuses to prove in any meaningful way?
Actually they did bomb it directly and caused damage to the building. They then terrorized every patient, kidnapped 200 people to an unknown location, and THEN went in to search but of course they found no tunnel inside the hospital itself (because why on earth would a Hamas fighter put the opening there?).
So that's why they were so certain of the bunker's existence. 😅
🎵She knows, she knows🎵
🎵And I know she knows, and I know she knows🎵
🎵And deep down she knows, she knows🎵
🎵And I know she knows, and I know she knows🎵
J. Cole - She Knows: https://youtu.be/E2L6NxLf3ic?si=OQ9Hyq6X8sAaXsd2
Laws for thee not for me.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have targeted Gaza's biggest medical facility which it said was the site of a Hamas command center, a charge denied by the group.
Amid widespread condemnation about Israel's targeting of the hospital, CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour asked Barak if the IDF and the Israeli government had done a "good enough job of proving their claim" that there was a "major" Hamas command center and bunker under Shifa.
Barak replied "It's already been known for many years that they have a bunker that originally was built by Israeli constructors underneath Shifa," which was used as a "command post" for Hamas and as a "junction of several tunnels"
BBC Verify said that the Israeli footage appeared to have been recorded before reporters arrived and that the earlier clip showed fewer weapons which the IDF later explained was because more weaponry had been found later in the day.
BBC analysis editor Ros Atkins on November 17 said the IDF video was posted, then deleted, and reposted again, with references to an Israeli soldier held hostage removed.
"We don't know the reasons for that edit, nor how significant it is," Atkins said in the video which as of Tuesday had received 12.4 million views, adding that Israel's military "says suggestions it is manipulating the media are incorrect."
The original article contains 692 words, the summary contains 217 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Literally not talking about the tunnels and bunkers shown recently which are built in Hamas style developed over the last 15 or so years.
The shafts and tunnels are built in a certain style with parts made in gaza. This is all visible.
"hamas style" is that like art Deco? Maybe art Nuevo?
You mean the place the hospital is located and constructed? Weird things in Gaza would be built in Gaza.
Hamas-chic
Made of a garbonzo bean based cement?
Terrorism just got delicious.
Umami Bin Ladel'd
They use a specific type of cement piece construction they developed over time to let them build tunnels quickly for cheap. It's been documented historically and proudly by Hamas.
It's the shape of the stone arches and the smaller U shaped pieces in the shaft that tell you it wasn't Israeli built.
So a "technique" that would be easy and cheap to replicate rapidly. Is it not then suspicious it's been quite some time between raid and any amount of investigation?
Ah, glad we have an expert in primitive construction and not just that but one who's seen these tunnels in person. What's your name again so we can verify your conclusion?
Literally go watch the videos of journalists in the tunnels. Nothing will change your mind.
https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1xzpxbnt history of the tunnels
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip
https://youtu.be/E7SwJtYW86U?si=TbxPd_CGqO4ahpp0
Literally go watch the footage.
https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?si=vVvN7609vuYHRkuu
It's easy and cheap using smuggled concrete not doable in days with functional air conditioning systems.
https://youtu.be/a_n8qj8ycok?si=4uWZsaddS5KQGRxX
https://youtu.be/WUBxjB2NFMU?si=CGNkZJ0zwEDnZZh_
It takes time to disarm a possibly booby trapped tunnel and avoid potentially collapsing the buildings with civilians on top. It takes time to do an investigation of a crime scene.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/E7SwJtYW86U?si=TbxPd_CGqO4ahpp0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yes, isreali approved releases of ungeolocated video by approved journalists, not investigators.
We knew there were bunkers under all shifa, we knew there were tunnels under al shifa, we know both of these things because Israel used them when they controlled the hospital. What we don't have is a. Proof hamas made them, b. That is used offensively c. That there was any use prior to Israel breaking a wall down to gain access to tunnels and bunkers they admit they built.
Ditto bud, your own sources say they do not look recently used.
Also the proof is that hamas made them in their own style, far away from the Israeli built Bunker and on lower levels.
They're own style, you mean the Roman Arch and a fucking wall? Who could have thought of that aside from ww1 trenches, WW2 trenches, isreali trenches or I dunno literally anyone past like 1000bc.
Literally nothing with change your delusions in reality. So I'm going to stop bothering.
It's delusional to want evidence from experts who are actually there, not from journalists who have a perverse incentive to release only what Israel allows.
Wait for things to actually be investigated before calling it proof. It's absurd to take sides during a war with evidence that's solely controlled by one party and supported only by their allies.
Wait, see. Don't trust the people who have a track record of lying about the same shit they're talking about now and that goes equally to Hamas as it does to Israel.
But you know, logic huh? Why bother, who needs that. We all know the scientific method is "trust Ted, it benefits him more than anyone but why would ted lie?"
They are used recently but have had weeks to clear out, as stated
It doesn't say that at all, the best consensus of your sources is that they do not look recently used.
Literally in the footage they point out it's got working AC, and have had days/weeks to beat it.
Oh you mean the power in an Israeli bunker is on after isrealis have had access, weird huh.
It's been geolocated. Try again.
Quad replies, ooo touched as nerve huh. Also no they haven't.
Yes they have including by all the international journalists who have been there in the last few days.
No they haven't, Israel won't let them.
Did Israel build the one they based their attack around?
No, quite literally. It's been known Hamas does this shit for 10 years. More than a few prisoners reported it in interrogations.
Once the geolocated shafts were shown on video and by reporters it became glaringly apparent Israel didn't build those. The weird misinformation around the Bunker they did build is some weird delusions.
Yes, Hamas would use an Israeli company to build their secret bunker. That sounds very plausible indeed. Hamas is well-known to be trusting of Israelis.
Edit: I don't even think they bombed the hospital because of a bunker in the first place.
Also, a surprising number of people seem to be taking the word of an ex-Israeli PM as truth around here.
Why the fuck people trust anything this liar says is beyond me. He was defense minister during the Gaza war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)
That Israel built the bunker that they are claiming justifies them bombing the hospital it was under looks really bad for Israel. Why would he lie about that?
He's saying Israel built it for Hamas. That's the bullshit part.
No, he's saying Israel built it for Israel's purposes. He's claiming that Hamas has been using it (presumably since Israel pulled out of Gaza in '05). But Israel using structures it built as casus belli to blow up a hospital looks really bad on Israel's part.
I think any reason to blow up a hospital makes Israel look bad, but if I misunderstood what he meant, fair enough.
The justification is that Hamas uses hospitals for their purposes and they have bunkers and tunnels there. Why would it matter who build the bunkers? IDF is trying to destroy Hamas who uses hospital (with bunkers). Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
I'm sure Israel would love people to think they built bunkers under a hospital for medical use.
Why else would they build them? This was before Hamas came to power, when Israel was occupying Gaza permanently.
To store munitions? That's what bunkers are for. Or do you think Israel wouldn't store munitions in Gaza?
No, bunkers are actually for people to survive airstrikes and shelling. It even makes sense having one near a hospital, because sick people can't go fast when the sirens go off. Usually responsible governments build bunkers for their citizens when there is a chance of war. Military sometimes has command bunkers, but they are not for and not near civillians.
Why would they do it under hospital? I understand the ugly logic of Hamas doing this, but Israel would not make any sense. There was no reporting of them doing that, ever.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte Remember, it's Israel claiming what those bunkers are used for and by whom, and they are well known to lie.
Generally speaking, never trust anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Unfortunately, I trust Hamas even less. However, there was an interview of a doctor who worked at this hospital, who did confirm that Hamas was using it.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte The question is was the doctor under duress by Israeli forces? It's not like Israel plays it straight, or has any reason to. Israel has used human shields, Israel has attacked and is currently attacking Palestinians in the West B. ank where Hamas isn't, Israel even violated the ceasefire first. So let's not pretend that they are an honest broker, because they aren't
No, he was not under duress. He was given interview in UK.
@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte That's fair, they're terrorists. That said, Israel by every measure is worse
Was than Hamas? The one whose goal is to “run Jews to the sea”? The one who started all this by purportedly killing civilians? Really?
I mean, in Barak's mind he's probably attempting to justify the bombing. In a sane person's eyes it looks really bad.
Maybe that's the problem. The so-called justification just went over my head. Because it's fucking nuts. How many innocent people who were in need of hospital care did they kill? Including children? And then claim it's because Hamas uses human shields...
Well tbf they haven't blown it up (yet)
No isreal built it so they'd have an excuse to genocide palestinians by claiming hamas was hiding there.
Fascinating to read. Did you not read one line of the article that stated that Israel buildt it decades ago when they controlled Gaza?
I'm not saying I belive Israels claims of Hamas using it as a command center but let's at least get the facts straight.
Isreal built the hospital.
That doesn't mean they built a bunker for Hamas to use underneath it.
Isreal said that hamas was using the bunker.
Isreal lies to justify bombing hospitals.
I mean, (probably) not for Hamas... He did straight up say Israel built it and was using it as a command center during his time in office though
This wasn't an accusation, it was a surprising admission during an interview
Most ppl ignore Israel gvt helped in the creation of Hamas
Over the current one...yes
people will take what serves their agenda...
And ignore what doesn't serve their agenda.
Cognitive dissonance + cherry picking.