Until they (every one of them) catch-up with price to ICE it's gonna be tough. Same story with every single automotive brand we had in past decades. They thought they're invincible, until...
Just need to start doing away with fuel subsidies
Ah yes those fuel subsidies keep the up front cost of vehicles so high… (sarcasm)
Get a new one liner that’s contextually correct. Or is that the point, to be a pointless broken record.
The higher up-front cost of an EV can be justified when you consider the lower running costs. If gasoline costs more and outpaces any rise in electric costs, the running costs gap is that much wider and the up front costs are easier to overlook
How many people can't finance that though, they are going to be on a ridiculously high interest loan that will way outstrip the fuel savings.
The second hand market won't be there for years (you can get a just about works petrol car ridiculously cheap) and who knows what their batteries will be like at that point
Said no one ever who has done the math.
The cost on a same-same ICE is nowhere near the cost difference. Even over the long term the EV value falls off a cliff as the battery approaches zero so you can’t claim the cost back at the secondhand sale.
For example Korean sedan to Korean EV say Hyundai sonata ($40,000) vs IONIQ6 ($82,000 after gov rebates) is a difference of $42,000 just comparing up front costs. Fuel cost is (250x8.1(L/100)) is 2,025 x $1.8 is $3645 per year all in AUD and km.
The more these overstaments are made the less credibility is given to the discussion of decarbonising the transport network. We need honest, cards on the table discussions. That’s my math. What’s yours?
I paid $37,880 for my Model 3, and got a $7500 tax credit. I do not believe there's a $30k car that can compete with the base model 3.
In Australia the base is over $70,000 after tax breaks and Government rebates
If you can find an equivalent ICE do the math and post results. I’ve been looking to buy an EV for city commute but it’s just far too expensive and frankly the net result is still burning coal (remote combustion vehicle).
Sounds like you're the target market for early adoption!
Said everyone that I know that bought an EV.
You need to get out and touch grass. There is more missinformation (and disinformation) about EVs than factually correct information. No one is willing to have a real discussion because the cult is regurgitating the misinformation and big oil disinformation. Right now EVs are for the rich and the lithium would be better being used on solar farms to clean the electricity grid.
I'm willing to have one, I thought we had one, but you are just starting to talk about cults ...
It is. EVs have a cult following and it’s resulted in enormous amount of marketing misinformation and is a MASSIVE detractor for anyone wanting to have frank discussions. Now I will also admit ICE has its cultists as well but the difference is no one can make baseless claims because we all own one and know exactly what they do and don’t do and no one is claiming otherwise.
What does it have to do with this discussion?
You would have to explain that. You inserted yourself into it.
What. This is about feasibility of different technologies of EVs, but you keep talking about cults. So I'm asking you, what do cults have to do with this discussion?
Said everyone that I know that bought an EV.
So now it’s a topic change from your own post. Good to know.
Are you working out all the prices in Australian fun bucks?... Because an ioniq 6 is not $82,000 usd for any of the trim levels and after running comparable TCOs vs fuel it will start paying for itself after the 15 year mark (well within the expected useful lifespan of a modern temperature controlled lithium pack (old EVs had significant degrading from temperature fluctuations, but new packs level off at about 10-20% wear now for an expected lifespan of 25-40 years >80% SOC)). Biggest downside is tax, payments, and higher than usual insurance which I'm not including in the TOC Calc because it's so varied based on location that it's hard to estimate.
Learn to read.
AUD.
Go visit their website in Australia. 70-90k.
Start pay for itself after 15 years
Battery only lasts about 12 years of normal use before needing replacement hence the poor secondhand values. What are you going to run it on, gasoline?
Fuck off.
The 12 years you're referring to is a assuming batteries without thermal management via nrel modeling, the ioniq 6 must face HEAFTY import taxes in your country (which is not the fault of the vehicle), and there are alternatives to running on gasoline like recycling the old cell (already a reality) and replacing it with another.
Again stop equating USD to AUD, that price also includes government subsidies and tax breaks, eg NO tax! Frankly I don’t care if you do or don’t believe me, they have a website, it gives you the cost subsidies and tax breaks pretty clearly.
So far as the life time goes 12 years is very generous based on country average 25,000km per annum
And when parts become available at my local auto parts store. One of my friends had a Model 3 and it took 1 MONTH to replace a broken passenger door mirror. It also took 3 WEEKS to fix a power seat issue. The same car had multiple growing pain issues that took way too much time to fix.
They were thrilled to trade it in on a new Camry so they could have a functioning car again.
This is just the state of the auto industry at the moment. There's just as many teslas and evs waiting on parts as there are traditional ICE models when adjusted for market scale. The days of having everything in stock at the dealer for a quick swap are dead and gone.
Was this in the last 4 years? Because supply chains and labor are still in recovery everywhere.
Until they (every one of them) catch-up with price to ICE it's gonna be tough. Same story with every single automotive brand we had in past decades. They thought they're invincible, until...
Just need to start doing away with fuel subsidies
Ah yes those fuel subsidies keep the up front cost of vehicles so high… (sarcasm)
Get a new one liner that’s contextually correct. Or is that the point, to be a pointless broken record.
The higher up-front cost of an EV can be justified when you consider the lower running costs. If gasoline costs more and outpaces any rise in electric costs, the running costs gap is that much wider and the up front costs are easier to overlook
How many people can't finance that though, they are going to be on a ridiculously high interest loan that will way outstrip the fuel savings.
The second hand market won't be there for years (you can get a just about works petrol car ridiculously cheap) and who knows what their batteries will be like at that point
Said no one ever who has done the math.
The cost on a same-same ICE is nowhere near the cost difference. Even over the long term the EV value falls off a cliff as the battery approaches zero so you can’t claim the cost back at the secondhand sale.
For example Korean sedan to Korean EV say Hyundai sonata ($40,000) vs IONIQ6 ($82,000 after gov rebates) is a difference of $42,000 just comparing up front costs. Fuel cost is (250x8.1(L/100)) is 2,025 x $1.8 is $3645 per year all in AUD and km.
The more these overstaments are made the less credibility is given to the discussion of decarbonising the transport network. We need honest, cards on the table discussions. That’s my math. What’s yours?
I paid $37,880 for my Model 3, and got a $7500 tax credit. I do not believe there's a $30k car that can compete with the base model 3.
In Australia the base is over $70,000 after tax breaks and Government rebates
If you can find an equivalent ICE do the math and post results. I’ve been looking to buy an EV for city commute but it’s just far too expensive and frankly the net result is still burning coal (remote combustion vehicle).
Sounds like you're the target market for early adoption!
Said everyone that I know that bought an EV.
You need to get out and touch grass. There is more missinformation (and disinformation) about EVs than factually correct information. No one is willing to have a real discussion because the cult is regurgitating the misinformation and big oil disinformation. Right now EVs are for the rich and the lithium would be better being used on solar farms to clean the electricity grid.
I'm willing to have one, I thought we had one, but you are just starting to talk about cults ...
It is. EVs have a cult following and it’s resulted in enormous amount of marketing misinformation and is a MASSIVE detractor for anyone wanting to have frank discussions. Now I will also admit ICE has its cultists as well but the difference is no one can make baseless claims because we all own one and know exactly what they do and don’t do and no one is claiming otherwise.
What does it have to do with this discussion?
You would have to explain that. You inserted yourself into it.
What. This is about feasibility of different technologies of EVs, but you keep talking about cults. So I'm asking you, what do cults have to do with this discussion?
So now it’s a topic change from your own post. Good to know.
Are you working out all the prices in Australian fun bucks?... Because an ioniq 6 is not $82,000 usd for any of the trim levels and after running comparable TCOs vs fuel it will start paying for itself after the 15 year mark (well within the expected useful lifespan of a modern temperature controlled lithium pack (old EVs had significant degrading from temperature fluctuations, but new packs level off at about 10-20% wear now for an expected lifespan of 25-40 years >80% SOC)). Biggest downside is tax, payments, and higher than usual insurance which I'm not including in the TOC Calc because it's so varied based on location that it's hard to estimate.
Learn to read.
AUD.
Go visit their website in Australia. 70-90k.
Battery only lasts about 12 years of normal use before needing replacement hence the poor secondhand values. What are you going to run it on, gasoline?
Fuck off.
The 12 years you're referring to is a assuming batteries without thermal management via nrel modeling, the ioniq 6 must face HEAFTY import taxes in your country (which is not the fault of the vehicle), and there are alternatives to running on gasoline like recycling the old cell (already a reality) and replacing it with another.
Again stop equating USD to AUD, that price also includes government subsidies and tax breaks, eg NO tax! Frankly I don’t care if you do or don’t believe me, they have a website, it gives you the cost subsidies and tax breaks pretty clearly.
So far as the life time goes 12 years is very generous based on country average 25,000km per annum
Learn to have a discussion with people without being a dickhead about it.
Keep drinking that coolaid cultist
Ya sure got me there! Congrats
Good point, just delete the second paragraph...
Exactly.
And when parts become available at my local auto parts store. One of my friends had a Model 3 and it took 1 MONTH to replace a broken passenger door mirror. It also took 3 WEEKS to fix a power seat issue. The same car had multiple growing pain issues that took way too much time to fix.
They were thrilled to trade it in on a new Camry so they could have a functioning car again.
This is just the state of the auto industry at the moment. There's just as many teslas and evs waiting on parts as there are traditional ICE models when adjusted for market scale. The days of having everything in stock at the dealer for a quick swap are dead and gone.
Was this in the last 4 years? Because supply chains and labor are still in recovery everywhere.