No, that is one of the stakes. Single-issue voting is extremely narrow-minded, and Trump would undoubtedly make things worse in the single issue you’re emphasizing.
And yet single issue voters exist. Pretending they don't isn't going to work. Scolding them isn't going to work. The Democratic party and Biden in particular need to adapt.
So you’d rather destroy American and Ukrainian lives as well as Palestinian to prove a point?
So you'd rather support genocide and lose voters than not support genocide and gain voters?
Not a binary proposition. Support Israel and lose voters, abandon Israel and lose more and different voters. Diplomacy is hard. Politics is hard.
Part of the reason it's hard in this particular situation is bad actors pretending that geopolitics can be reduced to a soundbyte and that the problem is simple and easy.
Think you can do better? Run for president.
Support Israel and lose voters, abandon Israel and lose more and different voters.
So just making sure I've got this right. When potential voters say, "This policy of enabling genocide is a deal-breaker for me, I won't vote for you if you don't change this stance," they're being naïve about the complexity of politics and the current situation in Palestine, if not actually just bad actors, but when other voters say "I won't vote for you if you stop enabling genocide," they're playing 5d chess that us simpletons with morals just can't keep up with, right? Because that's basically what you've just wrote.
It's always the left who are being unreasonable for refusing to compromise, but when center-right genocide sympathizers refuse to compromise on their stance, tough luck, kid, that's just politics. The enlightened centrists here are shrieking about the end of democracy if you don't fall in line with them, as all the while they happily march down the path to the end of democracy.
Exactly. And nothing illustrates this better than the fact that nobody is apologizing for electing Biden in the 2020 primaries. Their political viewpoints are sacrosanct. Ours are petty and childish.
If Biden stops supporting Netanyahu's genocide, will he lose your vote?
EDIT: disregard. You answered elsewhere before I noticed.
They sure would.
Would you prefer that Biden lose as long as he continues his support for genocide?
You sure would.
These people would prefer for Biden to lose, and I'm quite convinced that they don't really care why or how. Genocide is the buzzword of the year, but if Israel and Gaza make peace tomorrow, all of these people will all have new reasons why Democratic voters should stay home or burn their ballots.
If Biden stops supporting genocide, who do you plan to vote for?
Oh make no mistake, I'm voting for Joe no matter what. The only alternative is Donald Trump, and Donald Trump wants to destroy the Republic. Joe could send American troops into Rafah to glass it today, and I'd hold my nose and go vote for him in November. That's just facing reality.
Would I prefer things were different? Of course, but however much legitimate criticism might be laid at Biden's feet for not doing more to stop the genocide in Gaza, Trump has already wholly endorsed completely annihilating the Palestinian people, and he wants genocide in the US besides.
It's not a difficult choice.
Mask off, lmao.
Scratch a liberal...
маска снята, правда.
I don't know what that says, but you legitimately said you are okay with glassing Gaza, which makes you okay with fascism and genocide.
You're just as disingenuous with your argument as you are with your position. Anybody who wants to know what I legitimately said can read it.
Entertaining a terrible hypothetical to make a point is not the same as being okay with it--and I think you know that already. For example, I still engaged with you lot because I think there might be some benefit for someone reading this exchange to realize that these issues are complicated and nuanced, and they deserve critical thinking. That doesn't mean I'm okay with you. Fortunately, unlike with global politics, the consequences of ending this engagement are nonexistent.
Genocide isn't "complicated or nuanced."
Joe could send American troops into Rafah to glass it today, and I’d hold my nose and go vote for him in November.
I doubt you'd be holding your nose in such a case.
Can't imagine why people who voted for a candidate in one election wouldn't want to vote for them in another election. Total fucking mystery.
I was describing a phenomenon, not identifying myself as an example of that phenomenon. I'm voting for Biden.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
I'm not.
You're campaigning for the continuation of genocide.
So the kids are left with the following options: vote for Biden and genocide is permitted or let Trump win and even more genocide is permitted.
Faced with a shit sandwich, they chose an option that no one saw on the board: demand that the genocide end. I think that's pretty rad, but maybe others don't see it the same way. I admire the protesters.
I agree with protesting, just not at the polls. You would be choosing a worse fate for Palestinians, Ukrainians, and Americans in an attempt to make a point that won’t be made.
Don't get me wrong; I'll vote for genocidal-Joe, despite my extreme dislike of his policy toward Israel. I'm not stupid and neither are the kids. But the kids are still trying to force his hand and they should. I hope they vote for him too. But to threaten not to in an attempt to save Palestinian lives is a solid move. I hope they vote against fascism when the time comes. And I hope Brandon feels the pressure and changes his policy in the meantime.
I agree. Protest everywhere but the polls. The posted article, as well as the topic, is voting. That’s the only reason there’s such a disconnect in the comments.
I agree with protesting, just not at the polls
Then your agreement is worthless.
Explain to me how boycotting an election and allowing Trump to win will improve the situation in Gaza. You’re either ignorant to Trump’s support of Netanyahu, or putting ego in front of principle and would rather let more Palestinians die just so you can say you abstained.
I'm tired of explaining myself to people who aren't interested anyway.
So you make claims but can’t back them up? Maybe you should keep your comments to yourself if you can’t substantiate them, and take some time to learn some more about the topic.
If you're so interested in my perspective you can read my comments. You clearly aren't and you know it.
I’ve been. They’re vague and nondescript. You say a lot but make no real statements.
I understand it's a single issue but facilitating genocide seems like a big deal dontcha think?
Is it so crazy to want an option that's better than "not a total distopia"?
I wouldn't say that under Biden, be are living in a "total distopia".
I would, seeing as the president full-throatedly supporting genocide is seen as perfectly fine because other guy exists.
Where has Biden verbally supported Israel or their actions? What power do you think that he has that he can just stop everything? Do you think that he can just unilaterally end years of agreement and contracts for weapons? Do you think that any other President could have actually done anything different to change what's happening? The answer is likely no. No single President can control Congress, or make laws, or directly control another country's actions. Bernie could have won, and screamed until he was blue in the face, like he is now, and all of those weapons still would have shipped out this year.
We are not living in a distopia, so we're definitely not living in a total distopia. Maybe if you live in Ukraine or Gaza you could make that argument, but if you're in the US, it sure isn't distopia yet.
He's just fast-tracking weapons shipments to israel for them to carry out their campaign of genocide and pressing for even more support for israel.
Genocide, deteriorating Capitalism, a lack of Democracy, and crumbling Imperialism aren't total dystopia to you?
Must be nice to be privledged.
If that’s the only issue you’re voting on, do you want the guy that tries to stop it or the guy who says “go right ahead, do more genocide!”?
If that’s the only issue you’re voting on, do you want the guy that tries to stop it
That guy's not running.
That is correct. The options at the polls for Palestinians are bad or worse. Better is just not on the table. All the more reason that protests should happen elsewhere.
Okay, then I guess those votes aren't on the table either. Democrats have a tough choice to make: do they want to support genocide and lose votes or do they want to stop supporting genocide and gain votes? Why are voters being attacked for exercising their democratic right to vote (or not vote) as they please, but politicians whose entire job is to gain votes are excused for not appealing to voters?
You’re not punishing Democrats by abstaining. You’re punishing yourself to make a point that won’t be conveyed. I’m also not attacking. I’m making sure you are fully aware of the consequences you’re accepting by making whatever choice you choose to make. You do you. Just don’t pretend you don’t know what’s going to happen if you abstain.
The point is getting conveyed a hell of a lot more than by guaranteeing votes to democrats for their "greater boogeyman" strategy. If democrats are hellbent on keeping things terrible, then voting for them isn't really a solution. My plan is to vote democrats to give them as much of a majority as possible so they can have as little excuse as possible for when they don't do what they claim they want to do, but I can understand people who don't want to vote for them.
I’m not judging people who don’t want to vote. I’m commenting to ensure they have the knowledge that abstaining will lead to another Trump presidency, and what the last one looked like under the noise shield of his antics. If he’s their second choice, then they should absolutely abstain or vote third-party.
Everyone is well aware of this, democrats make sure to tell everyone this because it's their only strategy instead of listening to voters and actually improving things.
You’re right. There’s been no difference between them.
Where did I say there's no difference between them?
Never Again meant Never Again
Genocide is an abomination. No human can ever support it.
If you believe in God then your soul is in incredible danger by accepting such a status of things. Which is a concern for many of us.
I agree. Protest this abomination. Just don’t dilute yourself into thinking that allowing Trump back into the White House would improve the chances of Palestinian survival.
Agreed. But as you gloated earlier, better isn't on the ballot.
And with the two party pro-genocide hegemony, it never will be. So drink up, you got the only thing you want.
You make it seem like they’re the same on Israel. We both know they’re not.
Despite your contempt for Biden, he has been far better than Trump in every other area of running this nation, unless you’re a rich white industrialist.
Biden has made attempts to stop things, even if they are half assed. So the question remains, which do you support?
Biden has made attempts to stop things, even if they are half assed.
They're no-assed.
So the question remains, which do you support?
I'm voting for Biden.
Now I have a question for you. Is Netanyahu committing genocide?
Then you’re okay with the alternative? That’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion. The reality is we have a first past the post system. Wild to me that people are okay with another Trump term
I literally said in the comment you replied to that I'm voting for Biden.
I see you ignored my question as well, so I'll repeat it: Is Netanyahu committing genocide?
Man don't bother. These people aren't against genocide. They all have no problem with Ukrainian genocide or any genocide the Chinese want to carry out.
Ukraine isn't committing genocide, and the US isn't selling weapons to China for their genocide.
Netanyahu is committing genocide, and he's doing it with weapons we sold him.
Good Lord buddy, learn to read. Nobody said Ukraine was committing a genocide. Ukrainian genocide clearly means of the Ukrainian people. Or you under the impression that The Armenian Genocide was a genocide carried out by the Armenians?
Oh. Ok. Is the US supporting Russia in their genocide of Ukraine? Are we supporting China's genocide?
Because we're supporting Netanyahu's genocide. You love it and want it to continue, and that's the only reason you decided to ignore the rest of my comment.
No, that is one of the stakes. Single-issue voting is extremely narrow-minded, and Trump would undoubtedly make things worse in the single issue you’re emphasizing.
And yet single issue voters exist. Pretending they don't isn't going to work. Scolding them isn't going to work. The Democratic party and Biden in particular need to adapt.
So you’d rather destroy American and Ukrainian lives as well as Palestinian to prove a point?
So you'd rather support genocide and lose voters than not support genocide and gain voters?
Not a binary proposition. Support Israel and lose voters, abandon Israel and lose more and different voters. Diplomacy is hard. Politics is hard.
Part of the reason it's hard in this particular situation is bad actors pretending that geopolitics can be reduced to a soundbyte and that the problem is simple and easy.
Think you can do better? Run for president.
So just making sure I've got this right. When potential voters say, "This policy of enabling genocide is a deal-breaker for me, I won't vote for you if you don't change this stance," they're being naïve about the complexity of politics and the current situation in Palestine, if not actually just bad actors, but when other voters say "I won't vote for you if you stop enabling genocide," they're playing 5d chess that us simpletons with morals just can't keep up with, right? Because that's basically what you've just wrote.
It's always the left who are being unreasonable for refusing to compromise, but when center-right genocide sympathizers refuse to compromise on their stance, tough luck, kid, that's just politics. The enlightened centrists here are shrieking about the end of democracy if you don't fall in line with them, as all the while they happily march down the path to the end of democracy.
Exactly. And nothing illustrates this better than the fact that nobody is apologizing for electing Biden in the 2020 primaries. Their political viewpoints are sacrosanct. Ours are petty and childish.
If Biden stops supporting Netanyahu's genocide, will he lose your vote?
EDIT: disregard. You answered elsewhere before I noticed.
They sure would.
Would you prefer that Biden lose as long as he continues his support for genocide?
You sure would.
These people would prefer for Biden to lose, and I'm quite convinced that they don't really care why or how. Genocide is the buzzword of the year, but if Israel and Gaza make peace tomorrow, all of these people will all have new reasons why Democratic voters should stay home or burn their ballots.
If Biden stops supporting genocide, who do you plan to vote for?
Oh make no mistake, I'm voting for Joe no matter what. The only alternative is Donald Trump, and Donald Trump wants to destroy the Republic. Joe could send American troops into Rafah to glass it today, and I'd hold my nose and go vote for him in November. That's just facing reality.
Would I prefer things were different? Of course, but however much legitimate criticism might be laid at Biden's feet for not doing more to stop the genocide in Gaza, Trump has already wholly endorsed completely annihilating the Palestinian people, and he wants genocide in the US besides.
It's not a difficult choice.
Mask off, lmao.
Scratch a liberal...
маска снята, правда.
I don't know what that says, but you legitimately said you are okay with glassing Gaza, which makes you okay with fascism and genocide.
You're just as disingenuous with your argument as you are with your position. Anybody who wants to know what I legitimately said can read it.
Entertaining a terrible hypothetical to make a point is not the same as being okay with it--and I think you know that already. For example, I still engaged with you lot because I think there might be some benefit for someone reading this exchange to realize that these issues are complicated and nuanced, and they deserve critical thinking. That doesn't mean I'm okay with you. Fortunately, unlike with global politics, the consequences of ending this engagement are nonexistent.
Genocide isn't "complicated or nuanced."
I doubt you'd be holding your nose in such a case.
Can't imagine why people who voted for a candidate in one election wouldn't want to vote for them in another election. Total fucking mystery.
I was describing a phenomenon, not identifying myself as an example of that phenomenon. I'm voting for Biden.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
I'm not.
You're campaigning for the continuation of genocide.
So the kids are left with the following options: vote for Biden and genocide is permitted or let Trump win and even more genocide is permitted.
Faced with a shit sandwich, they chose an option that no one saw on the board: demand that the genocide end. I think that's pretty rad, but maybe others don't see it the same way. I admire the protesters.
I agree with protesting, just not at the polls. You would be choosing a worse fate for Palestinians, Ukrainians, and Americans in an attempt to make a point that won’t be made.
Don't get me wrong; I'll vote for genocidal-Joe, despite my extreme dislike of his policy toward Israel. I'm not stupid and neither are the kids. But the kids are still trying to force his hand and they should. I hope they vote for him too. But to threaten not to in an attempt to save Palestinian lives is a solid move. I hope they vote against fascism when the time comes. And I hope Brandon feels the pressure and changes his policy in the meantime.
I agree. Protest everywhere but the polls. The posted article, as well as the topic, is voting. That’s the only reason there’s such a disconnect in the comments.
Then your agreement is worthless.
Explain to me how boycotting an election and allowing Trump to win will improve the situation in Gaza. You’re either ignorant to Trump’s support of Netanyahu, or putting ego in front of principle and would rather let more Palestinians die just so you can say you abstained.
I'm tired of explaining myself to people who aren't interested anyway.
So you make claims but can’t back them up? Maybe you should keep your comments to yourself if you can’t substantiate them, and take some time to learn some more about the topic.
If you're so interested in my perspective you can read my comments. You clearly aren't and you know it.
I’ve been. They’re vague and nondescript. You say a lot but make no real statements.
I understand it's a single issue but facilitating genocide seems like a big deal dontcha think?
Of course it is. It’s only going to get worse under Trump, as will everything else.
Is it so crazy to want an option that's better than "not a total distopia"?
I wouldn't say that under Biden, be are living in a "total distopia".
I would, seeing as the president full-throatedly supporting genocide is seen as perfectly fine because other guy exists.
Where has Biden verbally supported Israel or their actions? What power do you think that he has that he can just stop everything? Do you think that he can just unilaterally end years of agreement and contracts for weapons? Do you think that any other President could have actually done anything different to change what's happening? The answer is likely no. No single President can control Congress, or make laws, or directly control another country's actions. Bernie could have won, and screamed until he was blue in the face, like he is now, and all of those weapons still would have shipped out this year.
We are not living in a distopia, so we're definitely not living in a total distopia. Maybe if you live in Ukraine or Gaza you could make that argument, but if you're in the US, it sure isn't distopia yet.
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/11/18/23966137/us-weapons-israel-biden-package-explained
https://apnews.com/article/us-israel-gaza-arms-hamas-bypass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-sends-weapons-israel-growing-calls-cease-fire-rcna145760
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/02/us/politics/biden-israel-weapons-deal.html
He's just fast-tracking weapons shipments to israel for them to carry out their campaign of genocide and pressing for even more support for israel.
Genocide, deteriorating Capitalism, a lack of Democracy, and crumbling Imperialism aren't total dystopia to you?
Must be nice to be privledged.
If that’s the only issue you’re voting on, do you want the guy that tries to stop it or the guy who says “go right ahead, do more genocide!”?
That guy's not running.
That is correct. The options at the polls for Palestinians are bad or worse. Better is just not on the table. All the more reason that protests should happen elsewhere.
Okay, then I guess those votes aren't on the table either. Democrats have a tough choice to make: do they want to support genocide and lose votes or do they want to stop supporting genocide and gain votes? Why are voters being attacked for exercising their democratic right to vote (or not vote) as they please, but politicians whose entire job is to gain votes are excused for not appealing to voters?
You’re not punishing Democrats by abstaining. You’re punishing yourself to make a point that won’t be conveyed. I’m also not attacking. I’m making sure you are fully aware of the consequences you’re accepting by making whatever choice you choose to make. You do you. Just don’t pretend you don’t know what’s going to happen if you abstain.
The point is getting conveyed a hell of a lot more than by guaranteeing votes to democrats for their "greater boogeyman" strategy. If democrats are hellbent on keeping things terrible, then voting for them isn't really a solution. My plan is to vote democrats to give them as much of a majority as possible so they can have as little excuse as possible for when they don't do what they claim they want to do, but I can understand people who don't want to vote for them.
I’m not judging people who don’t want to vote. I’m commenting to ensure they have the knowledge that abstaining will lead to another Trump presidency, and what the last one looked like under the noise shield of his antics. If he’s their second choice, then they should absolutely abstain or vote third-party.
Everyone is well aware of this, democrats make sure to tell everyone this because it's their only strategy instead of listening to voters and actually improving things.
You’re right. There’s been no difference between them.
Where did I say there's no difference between them?
Never Again meant Never Again
Genocide is an abomination. No human can ever support it.
If you believe in God then your soul is in incredible danger by accepting such a status of things. Which is a concern for many of us.
I agree. Protest this abomination. Just don’t dilute yourself into thinking that allowing Trump back into the White House would improve the chances of Palestinian survival.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html
Congratulations.
For what? Honest awareness of the options of US support of Israel?
For your party keeping better off the ballot.
Again.
I’m not a Democrat. I’m ferociously anti-Trump.
I didn't say which party was yours. Though I agree that Democrats are one of the two parties that have kept better off the ballot.
Absolutely. Things would be very different right now had the DNC not favored Hillary in 2016.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-statement-on-the-escalation-in-the-middle-east/
Agreed. But as you gloated earlier, better isn't on the ballot.
And with the two party pro-genocide hegemony, it never will be. So drink up, you got the only thing you want.
You make it seem like they’re the same on Israel. We both know they’re not.
Despite your contempt for Biden, he has been far better than Trump in every other area of running this nation, unless you’re a rich white industrialist.
Biden has made attempts to stop things, even if they are half assed. So the question remains, which do you support?
They're no-assed.
I'm voting for Biden.
Now I have a question for you. Is Netanyahu committing genocide?
Then you’re okay with the alternative? That’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion. The reality is we have a first past the post system. Wild to me that people are okay with another Trump term
I literally said in the comment you replied to that I'm voting for Biden.
I see you ignored my question as well, so I'll repeat it: Is Netanyahu committing genocide?
Man don't bother. These people aren't against genocide. They all have no problem with Ukrainian genocide or any genocide the Chinese want to carry out.
Ukraine isn't committing genocide, and the US isn't selling weapons to China for their genocide.
Netanyahu is committing genocide, and he's doing it with weapons we sold him.
Good Lord buddy, learn to read. Nobody said Ukraine was committing a genocide. Ukrainian genocide clearly means of the Ukrainian people. Or you under the impression that The Armenian Genocide was a genocide carried out by the Armenians?
Oh. Ok. Is the US supporting Russia in their genocide of Ukraine? Are we supporting China's genocide?
Because we're supporting Netanyahu's genocide. You love it and want it to continue, and that's the only reason you decided to ignore the rest of my comment.