It seems that these Americans have discovered that they can't just ignore the rule of law in other countries.
Let them deal with the consequences. Let them lose that American exceptionalism.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America, so these Americans shouldn't get a free pass for breaking laws in other countries.
I agree, but on the other hand 12 years? This sounds more like a 12 days crime...
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they'd reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they'll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
yup. look at Haiti to see what lax gun controls lead to.
Please be trolling or bot. How could a sentient being write something this nonsensical...
Which word did you have trouble parsing sparky?
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America
You might want to check your notes on that one...
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I've found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
It's exactly why my range bags and my travel bags nexer mix.
Are we talking about gummy bears or explosives?
If you let ammo lose around the house, you have MUCH bigger problems than travelling
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there's a loose round in the folds of the bag they don't know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That's why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren't meant for travel. the packaging it's sold in isn't meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you'll have an easier time with this.
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I’ve found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
this is why you don't pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
That's exactly what I'm fucking saying.
so you agree they didn't have an excuse. cool.
I'm saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you're so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I'm explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it's a sensible precaution if you're around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn't rocket science.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don't like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let's point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are 'ignoring' the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren't monolithic across countries. We wouldn't have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn't just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it's weight around to protect it's citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous
Don't crime, don't do time. Isn't that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
Don’t crime, don’t do time. Isn’t that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I'm pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It's like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it's not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don't want that, DON'T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don't they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don't get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you're actually trying to argue that it's unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You're very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don't like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn't "attempt to find out" they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
You’re very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative
lol put down the bong son... jfc, get over yourselves
You've made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don't like gun owners. I'm just holding the mirror up and you don't like what you see.
"Gun owner" is not an immutable attribute. Its not a skin colour. Comparing dislike of gun owners to racism is ridiculous.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it's an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that's your hang up, the logical next thought would be "what if I take race out of it" and it's just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
Then that's a different issue and should be handled according to what a person does/possesses and why on a case-by-case basis.
You’ve made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don’t like gun owners
oof, another swing and a miss. you're so damned close tho kid.... tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don't keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They're the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I'd like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I'm certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can't stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it's a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It's makes zero sense.
This isn't punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn't tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
This isn’t punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
Yes, I understand this, and it's not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you're not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it's pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
ok, think of it this way then:
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren't they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn't care less why they weren't smart enough. I'm okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I'm for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn't about being reasonable, it's about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
how'bout, no?
you do you mate.
Being an idiot doesn't mean you're exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they're exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you "accidentally" carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I'd be happy to answer your question.
Yeah, no.
It seems that these Americans have discovered that they can't just ignore the rule of law in other countries.
Let them deal with the consequences. Let them lose that American exceptionalism.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America, so these Americans shouldn't get a free pass for breaking laws in other countries.
I agree, but on the other hand 12 years? This sounds more like a 12 days crime...
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they'd reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they'll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
yup. look at Haiti to see what lax gun controls lead to.
Please be trolling or bot. How could a sentient being write something this nonsensical...
Which word did you have trouble parsing sparky?
You might want to check your notes on that one...
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I've found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
It's exactly why my range bags and my travel bags nexer mix.
Are we talking about gummy bears or explosives?
If you let ammo lose around the house, you have MUCH bigger problems than travelling
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there's a loose round in the folds of the bag they don't know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That's why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren't meant for travel. the packaging it's sold in isn't meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you'll have an easier time with this.
this is why you don't pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
That's exactly what I'm fucking saying.
so you agree they didn't have an excuse. cool.
I'm saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you're so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I'm explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it's a sensible precaution if you're around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn't rocket science.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don't like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let's point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are 'ignoring' the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren't monolithic across countries. We wouldn't have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn't just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it's weight around to protect it's citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
Don't crime, don't do time. Isn't that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I'm pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It's like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it's not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don't want that, DON'T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don't they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don't get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you're actually trying to argue that it's unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You're very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don't like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn't "attempt to find out" they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
lol put down the bong son... jfc, get over yourselves
You've made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don't like gun owners. I'm just holding the mirror up and you don't like what you see.
"Gun owner" is not an immutable attribute. Its not a skin colour. Comparing dislike of gun owners to racism is ridiculous.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it's an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that's your hang up, the logical next thought would be "what if I take race out of it" and it's just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
Then that's a different issue and should be handled according to what a person does/possesses and why on a case-by-case basis.
oof, another swing and a miss. you're so damned close tho kid.... tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don't keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They're the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I'd like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I'm certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can't stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
https://jalopnik.com/youve-got-to-stop-keeping-your-gun-in-your-car-1850929717
so... you do you sport, will probably block you so I don't have to explain shit after this.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it's a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It's makes zero sense.
This isn't punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn't tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
Yes, I understand this, and it's not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you're not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it's pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
ok, think of it this way then:
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren't they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn't care less why they weren't smart enough. I'm okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
I'm for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn't about being reasonable, it's about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
how'bout, no?
you do you mate.
Being an idiot doesn't mean you're exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they're exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you "accidentally" carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I'd be happy to answer your question.
You first.
Obviously not a good faith question.