Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
why are you fabricating bullshit?
I'm not fabricating anything. I'm skeptical that a bunch of irresponsible gun nuts keep getting caught in a nation no irresponsible gun nut has ever heard of, while somehow avoiding capture everywhere else.
Its also strange to me that people on a site all about ACAB when it comes to their own nations are not throwing that skepticism to a nation they also have likely never heard of.
You stated: It is very unlikely these people were carrying ammo.
they admitted to carrying the ammo.
look buddy just because you're not familiar with the turks doesn't mean it's not real. your lack of experience and geography knowledge doesn't poof it out of existence.
you really think the gun nuts put that much thought into storage and care for their firearms and associated material huh?
what a buffoon.
I like that I reference the fact that irresponsible gun owners suddenly flocking end masse to a place they wouldn't have hears of turns into you accusing me of having never hears of that place.
Like... What? Okay.
I get it, you like to argue on the internet and being mr. Smarty pants is super important to you. But at least make sense.
I like that I reference the fact that irresponsible gun owners suddenly flocking end masse to a place they wouldn’t have hears of turns into you accusing me of having never hears of that place.
en masse.
not end.
why the fuck would people flock to a place they'd never heard of? do you stop to read the shit you're writing?
I don't like to argue on the internet, I like to point out how stupid, inane, and poorly constructed your arguments are. I'm sorry, but I don't have the time or crayons to draw you a picture so it'd make sense to you.
I think you should be taking your anger out on your mother, not randos on the internet, or therapy.
Or go back to reddit. Have a good night.
I think you should be taking your anger out on your mother,
yikes. you got issues man.
Don't feed the troll (or idiot)
yeah blocked after that, no good arguments.
As a bystander, thanks for that reminder (that it’s very easy to block people on Lemmy).
"I have never heard of this country, therefore any arrest made there is a conspiracy."
Your logic is flawless, way to go
...i never said that.
Dude. They admitted they had the ammo.
I mean there was some Nazi guy caught masturbating to gay porn and his Nazi supporters now claim it's the Jew provocation. Do you really expect a different outcome here?
It’s part of the Jewish agenda to turn our white supremacists gay.
Per the article 'Four of the detained Americans have admitted they brought the ammunition — but by mistake.'
Then how did they find ammo and why have several admitted they brought the ammo and "forgot"?
Sounds like you're full of shit.
Why is this not happenong at the same rate elsewhere?
People also admit to many things they never did while in custody.
Something fishy is happening here.
or americans just are arrogant and think they're untouchable. see fay, michael and singapore.
see fay, michael and singapore.
I almost forgot that asshole. No one outside the US thought the intervention was warranted. Case in point: the Swiss vandal in 2010
This happens in other Caribbean countries too. If you were to fly to Bermuda or Grenada you’d get in trouble for carrying this stuff.
Yeah, the Brits (since it is a British territory) have been trying to frame every single American to put them in jail since the rebellion!
People also admit to many things they never did while in custody.
Do people? Is that the thing?
Okay. Um, while in custody I never ... hopped on one leg.
But why is admitting to things we've never done in custody a thing?
I do not ageee with the poster you respond to, but false confessions are a serious problem. Often (in the US) they arise from hours long interrogations without a lawyer, in which police are allowed to lie about the evidence they have. This leads to situations where a suspect feels like they are done for even if they didn’t commit a crime. When a plea deal is then put in front of them which they are told would be much preferable to getting sentenced without it, they sign and admit to a crime they never committed. It shouldn’t happen but is a thing that unfortunately does occur.
How arrogant of those American governers to assume they can just dictate how other countries deal with people smuggling weapons into their country (even if those people claim to have done it as a casual accident).
You're naive if you think it won't work.
20 American doctors starving and dehydrated in Gaza, Israel hitting their supply trucks being shipped in. If the U.S doesn't care about 20 doctors, they surely don't care about a few numbnuts
The US, and certainly it's government, is not a monolith.
You got it backwards. It's not about the people - it's about the principles! What do you think the US cherishes more - medicine or guns?
How so??
Impact to tourism notwithstanding, Turks and Caicos imports 75% of its goods from the US, which also supplies 99% of its petrol. They're not putting anyone in jail for 12 years because the person accidentally had two pistol rounds in their carry-on, let alone a citizen of their biggest trade partner.
fuck that, its not hard to check your luggage before traveling.
Stop throwing the weight of the US government behind trying to protect assholes.
I agree they're stupid, but these aren't people with malicious intent, and you want them to spend 10 years in prison? What do you think this solves?
I mean, all they had to do was take the least amount of effort possible to ensure their luggage was clean.
If they couldnt muster the give a fuck to do that, and intentionally went to a country that they know has these laws...Then why should I muster enough of a fuck to wring my hands desperately over the situation their own lack of care and concern created?
i think this solves the problem of idiots and assholes thinking they can flout rules and get away with it, regardless of its malicious or willful incompetence.
Don't search your luggage? Straight to gulag!
How many years have you taken yoga to be able to stretch and twist like that?
Ive travelled over i ternational borders with a dime bag in my luggage that i didnt even know was there until weeks after i got home. Dont be obtuse, there are lots of compartments in luggage whrre something as small as a bullet can hide even if you check the bag. Who the fuck gives a full cavity search to their luggage everyrime they use it?
look man just because you're apparently a junkie fuckup who can't control his sensitive items does NOT mean the rest of the world's standards should be dropped to accommodate your idiocy.
its crazy how these dumbasses keep tattling on themselves like it somehow justifies this shit, isnt it?
"I'm an incompetent, careless and entitled asshole, so obviously I'm going to argue real hard for these other incompetent, careless, entitled assholes so I dont have to be held accountable for my own actions!"
No one is asking you to care about them.
The question is whether or not you honestly think sending these people to prison for 10 years makes any sense. It's the same thing when some poor black kid gets caught with some weed and goes to jail. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and it's easy to point at their actions and say they were "idiots" for doing drugs and carrying it around them, and that they were "flouting the rules" by having a controlled substance. But I also know an injustice when I see one.
And there is precisely zero indication that these people are "flouting the rules." This would actually more likely apply more to the kid with some pot, because they know it's against the law and they likely know they have it on them. Why would you bring a handful of ammo into a country on vacation with no gun or anything? Hell, even if you had a gun, a few rounds isn't going to do much.
You're trying to paint it in the worst possible light. Slow down, take a breath, and think about this rationally and objectively for a second. Does this really solve a problem? Is this a good thing for our society? At least one of these people is a parent, do you really think it's great they lose their parent for 10+ years because of two bullets accidentally left in a bag? I just can't fathom how anyone sees any justice in this. There's no requirement that you think so vengefully.
"If you had a gun, a few rounds isn't going to do much"
LMFAO one round is enough to commit murder
LMFAO one round is enough to lose 12 years of your life, instead of you know, scanning, seeing they have one round, pulling them aside, taking it out. Yaknow, like what's done with fluids.
Missing the forest for the trees.
It doesn't matter who thinks what. There's a law and it was broken, off you go to jail.
Good thing all laws are ethical, moral and make sense. I imagine everybody on lemmy will agree that laws are the best thing ever that they never break.
yet when we talk about the morality surrounding selling stupid, violent and dangerous people firearms you get laser focused on literal (MISINTERPRETATION) of a 200yr old document. And your stupidity and support of said stupidity literally results in dead kids, by the thousands.
Tell me again about the morality regarding the cult of the bang bang, please.
That's fucking hilarious.
"WOULD ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDRIIIIN" argument about someone who loses 12 years of their life and isn't there to raise them after a single round is found in their baggage. Isn't that what police do with potheads? Guess that's justified too
nuanced argument. you upset bro?
how many people do you think they should just forgive when it keeps fucking happening?
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
how many times should this country watch stupid americans try it again and again before someone actually pays consequences?
and how many people do you think our country would forgive?
pfft.
Having weapons or ammo on you as a civilian is 100% unethical and immoral.
It keeps complete morons off the streets and out of reach of firearms.
Because people who completely lack the necessary care and disciplin should not be armed.
You honestly believe that over a decade in prison is a good punishment for this type of accident? We are talking about it possibly resulting in kids being without their parents for the bulk of their childhood. Do you really think society is better off if that happens?
you and I both know they won't spend a decade in the clink. IF they get sentenced then the state dept will go to work and these jackasses will pay some kind of fine.
Don't want to go to a jail in a foreign country? Don't break their fucking laws. It's really quite simple. And each and every one of these idiots admitted to their crime. Not a single one is innocent.
you and I both know they won’t spend a decade in the clin
I would hope not, but I know nothing of the Turks and Caicos legal system, so it would be extremely presumptuous of me to claim I know that.
IF they get sentenced then the state dept will go to work and these jackasses will pay some kind of fine.
Either they do something now, or after conviction, I don't particularly care.
Don’t want to go to a jail in a foreign country? Don’t break their fucking laws. It’s really quite simple
This is the whole point, it seems these were completely unintentional violations of their laws. The way you write this makes it sound like they just don't care about the laws there.
unintentional
people unintentionally break US laws all the time, yet our system still punishes them. and foreigners who visit and do the same too.
it's a law system, not a kindness and forgiveness system.
The way you write this makes it sound like they just don’t care about the laws there.
I think the Turks is fucking justified in being upset at the endless line of assholes who KEEP TRYING TO BRING AMMO into their country. It's not an isolated incident.
people unintentionally break US laws all the time, yet our system still punishes them. and foreigners who visit and do the same too.
Does it really need to be explained that two wrongs don't make a right? It seems mad to me that one would say "these people should be punished because the us justice system does some things poorly."
I think the Turks is fucking justified in being upset at the endless line of assholes who KEEP TRYING TO BRING AMMO into their country. It’s not an isolated incident.
They didn't pass this law because people were unintentionally bringing tiny amounts of ammo into the country, they passed it because the law wasn't strict enough to punish people smuggling in ammo for gangs. How does one actually convince themselves that they were actually targeting tourists with 10 years in prison because they accidentally bring ammo in the country? Lol
They didn’t pass this law because
oh you were in the legislature when the laws were crafted?
REALLY?
I'm dubious.
In fact, they didn't pass a law that said "no ammo but one or two rounds is aight". Not "No ammo but accidents happen we understand and will be merciful and lenient, unlike the US's policies..."
no. They're a sovereign nation man, piss and moan, whine and bitch all you want, they get to make their rules and when you go there their rules get to apply to you. Stand up and be an adult. Fuck.
oh you were in the legislature when the laws were crafted?
Lol were you in the legislature when they passed this law? You seemed to have no issue declaring the reason for it when it confirmed what you wanted to be true, and now hypocritically are attacking me for for actually knowing why the law exists.
And no one is saying that they can't make their laws as they like. You've so badly lost this argument, and you know it, that you've turned to blatant hypocrisy and to attacking strawmen. Again, to be clear, I'm arguing the law is clearly unjust and it would a travesty of justice that these people lose 10 years of their lives, and their children lose 10 years of their parents, because they made a mistake.
And no one is saying that they can’t make their laws as they like. You’ve so badly lost this argument, and you know it, that you’ve turned to blatant hypocrisy and to attacking strawmen. Again, to be clear, I’m arguing the law is clearly unjust and it would a travesty of justice that these people lose 10 years of their lives, and their children lose 10 years of their parents, because they made a mistake.
cute gish gallop.
back in reality, you want to take chances with jail time, visit other countries and break their laws about ordinance, if you think this is unique to T&C you'd be in for a fun time.
Beginning to think you have tacos for brains. gonna block you so I don't have to waste more time on your bullshit.
The punishment is first and formost for being terminally stupid. It is high time to stop cuddling the idiots. They broke the law, they should serve. Or do you think that law is just a joke?
stop cuddling the idiots everyone!! They’re getting far to warm and cozy
Why do you feel people need to spend 10 years in jail for being stupid? And no I don't think the law is a joke, I think this one is very unjust.
You literally called him stupid. Wasn't that tactless?
Go read the person's comments. I think most will agree that their behavior is dumb in every sense of the word. They need to know that. Not that anything will change, but at least they've been called out.
Sooo you being tactless is okay, but them doing the same to you isn't.
Calling someone dumb for being dumb is not tactless. Calling someone a cunt for calling out their objective stupidity is tactless.
Both are equally tactless, and all what you are doing right now is mental gymnastics to feel superior to a guy that called you names as a reaction to you calling them names. You are the one who started not being civil here.
You just keep reinforcing the stereotype
I travel with and without. I have bags specifically for firearms and ammo. That way when I travel somewhere that having just one round of 22lr might be an issue I use a bag that never had my firearm stuff. It eliminates the uncertainty.
Kewl. Till one actually slips by and you are getting 10 years in jail for it.
poor, poor persecuted gun nuts. why won't someone think of the gun nuts?! ah, they're truly the victims.
lol. go to Caribbean jail
Ah yes, "let's put them all to death for owning guns" crowd is here.
ah the 'violate sovereign nation's laws' crowd is here.
how many times do you think they should ignore their laws being violated? 3? 5? 12?
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
Would America just release tourists who broke their laws?
What is an American law that's equivalent to this?
Weed is legal in Canada, illegal in the US.
Yeah, what about their Second Amendment Rights in other countries? /s
No, not that at all. What they did is unlawful in the US as well.
Bring along a Kinder surprise egg into the US and see how understanding and friendly the US legal system is to people who made a honest mistake.
You can bring them back with no issue. It has never been an issue, just a regulatory prohibition on selling them.
Better example: drugs which are legal in other countries but not the US.
What would US law enforcement do if they found you with illegal (in US) drugs, eh?
They sure as hell wouldn't be letting you off with it.
Marijuana maybe? I don't know how strict the guns laws are there but that's the closest I can think of.
Copyright infringement, DRM circumvention, and "hacking."
See: Aaron Swartz
On January 6, 2011, Swartz was arrested by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) police on state breaking-and-entering charges, after connecting a computer to the MIT network in an unmarked and unlocked closet and setting it to download academic journal articles systematically from JSTOR using a guest user account issued to him by MIT. Federal prosecutors, led by Carmen Ortiz, later charged him with two counts of wire fraud and eleven violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, carrying a cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, asset forfeiture, restitution, and supervised release.
oh I can think of tens of thousands of people imprisoned for just holding a tiny bit of weed. bet some of them were mexican, canadian and otherwise foreign citizens, do you think that gave the local yokels pause in putting them in jail? charging them?
LOLOL
A prison sentence doesn't make sense in these cases, since there is no risk of repeat offenses and therefore no rehabilitation required.
Just give them a 4 digit large fine and maybe deport them, unless you have a non-functioning justice system focused on cruelty, then give them a significant prison sentence.
Keep in mind that legal systems in other countries might actually work differently.
Apparently they had fines before, are facing increased gun violence and thus increased the punishment.
Maybe they love to punish stupid Americans.
Who doesn't?
I say, keep them an extra week, and let the US gov pay the fine for not noticing on departure.
They should be locked up, maximum sentence. American idiotic laws don't apply, they are just like everyone else. Criminals that broke the law and smuggled ammo in. Ignorance is not an excuse of the law, American justice system loves that phrase.
Yeah, no.
It seems that these Americans have discovered that they can't just ignore the rule of law in other countries.
Let them deal with the consequences. Let them lose that American exceptionalism.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America, so these Americans shouldn't get a free pass for breaking laws in other countries.
I agree, but on the other hand 12 years? This sounds more like a 12 days crime...
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they'd reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they'll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
yup. look at Haiti to see what lax gun controls lead to.
Please be trolling or bot. How could a sentient being write something this nonsensical...
Which word did you have trouble parsing sparky?
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America
You might want to check your notes on that one...
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I've found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
It's exactly why my range bags and my travel bags nexer mix.
Are we talking about gummy bears or explosives?
If you let ammo lose around the house, you have MUCH bigger problems than travelling
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there's a loose round in the folds of the bag they don't know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That's why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren't meant for travel. the packaging it's sold in isn't meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you'll have an easier time with this.
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I’ve found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
this is why you don't pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
That's exactly what I'm fucking saying.
so you agree they didn't have an excuse. cool.
I'm saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you're so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I'm explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you’re so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it's a sensible precaution if you're around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn't rocket science.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don't like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let's point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are 'ignoring' the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren't monolithic across countries. We wouldn't have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn't just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it's weight around to protect it's citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous
Don't crime, don't do time. Isn't that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
Don’t crime, don’t do time. Isn’t that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I'm pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It's like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it's not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don't want that, DON'T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don't they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don't get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you're actually trying to argue that it's unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You're very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don't like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn't "attempt to find out" they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
You’re very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative
lol put down the bong son... jfc, get over yourselves
You've made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don't like gun owners. I'm just holding the mirror up and you don't like what you see.
"Gun owner" is not an immutable attribute. Its not a skin colour. Comparing dislike of gun owners to racism is ridiculous.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it's an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that's your hang up, the logical next thought would be "what if I take race out of it" and it's just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
You’ve made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don’t like gun owners
oof, another swing and a miss. you're so damned close tho kid.... tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don't keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They're the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I'd like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I'm certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can't stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it's a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It's makes zero sense.
This isn't punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn't tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
This isn’t punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
Yes, I understand this, and it's not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you're not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it's pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
ok, think of it this way then:
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren't they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn't care less why they weren't smart enough. I'm okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I'm for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn't about being reasonable, it's about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
how'bout, no?
you do you mate.
Being an idiot doesn't mean you're exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they're exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you "accidentally" carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I'd be happy to answer your question.
Well, if people travel into a foreign country and don't even care about the laws of said country (not in detail, just reading the governmental warnings would have been sufficient), they deserve what happens.
Imagine I would travel to the US and would bring along some Kinder surprise eggs by mistake. Would those governors show mercy to me? I don't think so.
Or just serve alcohol to people of legal drinking age (in your country) along with the Kinder eggs.
Yep. Americans would shit their pants if they saw 14 year olds drinking beer or wine - legally.
Americans complaining about the detention: "My countries' laws are fine and the very standard of reason. All of you other countries should chill out!"
Jfc you shouldn't have ammo in luggage. Not surprised they were arrestex6
Does anybody know if these guys have oil?
they're owned by the uk so they've already suffered enough without the us invading them.
It's enough when the CIA says it's enough
If I were one of them, the NRA would be the last group I'd want advocating for my release...
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Three U.S. governors this week asked Turks and Caicos to show mercy to Americans arrested on the islands as a Florida woman became the fifth U.S. tourist to be charged with ammunition possession.
The lawmakers' plea came as the Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police confirmed yet another American, 45-year-old Sharitta Shinise Grier of Orlando, Florida, was charged with one count of ammunition possession after two rounds were allegedly discovered in her luggage on Monday during a routine search at Howard Hamilton International Airport.
The National Rifle Association on Thursday urged the U.S. State Department to "use every means necessary to return U.S. citizens home to America."
That changed in February when a court order required even tourists to potentially face mandatory prison time in addition to paying a fine.
TSA confirmed to CBS News its officers missed the four rounds of hunting ammo in Watson's carry-on when he and his wife departed from Oklahoma City in April.
"To me, the solution here is to put more technology assists available to them," Pekosek told CBS News senior transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave, pointing to software that would be able to identify rounds of ammunition, pieces of firearms and various knives.
The original article contains 523 words, the summary contains 200 words. Saved 62%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Those fools are trying to contain Florida Woman? Good luck, you poor bastards.
Happened in the Philippines around 6-8 years ago, nefarious airport security would intentionally put ammo in a victims luggage with the intention of shaking them for bribe. It lead travellers to wrap their luggage in plastic prior to departure. As far as I know they targeted locals I don't remember foreign victims.
this is not a shakedown. the perpetrators admitted it and pled guilty. it's stupid american guntwats who can't keep track of their sensitive items.
Ah I love this thread, the duality of Lemmy
Hicks:
"I have two bags I use whenever I am going outside my family land, sorry I missed a shell or two from the last time I went huntin, so what, I'm just an American"
Others:
"FUCK AROUND FIND OUT!!! One ammo? That's like 30 pounds of heroin, I hope you go to prison you dumb motherfucker"
fuck them. keep them locked up forever. fafo and they'll learn americans aren't the centre of the world.
They are idiots, but you just said to abduct people beyond written law in their country and hold them against their will. I don't think the UK will support that idea very much. They should face the time for the crimes they did, but "keep them locked up forever" is some backwards ass views clearly not focusing on prisons to be for recovery, just simply imprisonment for life... When no one was actually harmed from their actions. Really it shouldn't be much of an issue. Pulled over for going over the speed limit but not harming anyone. "Keep them locked up forever"
One of the most useful Vietnam-style traps requires exactly one shot as a hard to get component.
The weird thing is that it's not like loose ammo is dangerous. It doesn't just "go off".
Four rounds of ammo? Give them a slap on the wrist and send them home. If it was a box of ammo I'd feel differently. How you get ammo in the luggage is beyond me, but at 4 it was obviously an accident, they are obviously not trying to smuggle weapons in at that point.
Their country, their rules. One bullet can still kill someone. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
So can a fork. They didn't travel with a gun apparently. Going to have to go shut down every Lowe's that sells fertilizer, because you could rig it up and make it explode... Like a bullet without a gun.
What the fuck are you on about? Are people traveling with an entire Lowe's warehouse in their fucking luggage?
When you go into someone's house, you follow their rules.
Yes and when you punish someone you use a reasonable level of punishment.
Take the ammo and put them on the next flight home. And tell them next time the punishment will be more severe
That's absolutely what we do when people carry cocaine into America. We take it, escort them to the border, and firmly tell them not to do it again.
I don't know if you were aware how ridiculous your statement was and were arguing in bad faith but if not... please do realize that smuggling is generally heavily punished.
If the situation occurred here in the states, the person would also be facing jail time. So your logic makes no sense.
How careless do you have to be to just have ammo lying around, unknown to you? Here's a thought, T&C says they'll release them if they lose their right to own a gun in the US?
If anything they’ll be celebrated by pro gun groups:
The National Rifle Association on Thursday urged the U.S. State Department to "use every means necessary to return U.S. citizens home to America."
NRA: "Help us, government that we constantly talk about as an evil entity trying to take away our rights!"
I'm guessing. These ppl are white
nra are literally gonna get us into a war with the united kingdom aren't they?
Why the fuck would you bring ammo to begin with?
They traveled with their normal bag they go around with in regular life. Lesson: NEVER TRAVEL WITH THE BAG YOU CARRY AROUND DAILY because you will forget what's in there.
Or don’t carry guns wherever you go like a fanatical vigilante?! You Americans created a problem that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world.
Obviously this is the US state department, but it is still good info and I'd assume other countries have something similar.
Yo the State Department page for Iceland is fucking fire. It warns about pickpockets by telling travelers to be cognizant of “getting jostled”, especially in the capital on weekends because everyone gets drunk then and the jostling risk is higher. What a delightful warning. I’m convinced the pickpockets in Iceland are all the fox version of Robin Hood in Iceland.
Some of the State Department pages go hard as fuck though. Take a look at the one for Russia and watch any sympathy for Britney Grinier or that fucking Army dude evaporate into thin air. Libya’s page is wild and so is Syria’s, which actually says “yeah fam, we shut that fucking embassy down. if you’re idiot ass needs help hit up the Czechs”. Burma (Myanmar) goes pretty hard too, in addition to the risk of kidnapping, wrongful detention, arbitrary enforcement of local laws, etc., there’s the “your prolly gonna step on some uxo and splatter your fucking intestines on your travel partner my dude. stop. don’t go here.”
You keep ammo in your fucking purse?
I carry a pocket knife and a BIC lighter for utility needs. I have nearly forgotten to take out the pocket knife before leaving for the airport. I have also seen other stories like this, so I decided that my courier bag for travel is not the same one I use daily.
That's fair - I've nearly lost good pocket knives in the same way... but it's a long way from pocket knives to ammunition.
I don’t have or want a gun. I think they are stupid. I’m just saying that I get how it could happen.
Or just freaking empty it and only pack what you need. Its hardly difficult.
And yet, this keeps happening so it may actually be difficult.
Difficult. To check your travel bags for ammo.
How low do we set the bar before we blame the individuals?
I’ve never discovered ammunition loose in a bag or pocket. It’s been used or put away safely. Period. Why? Because duh.
Where’d I say that they weren’t responsible? I’m saying I can see how it could happen. It’s unclear why this bothers you.
I agree that it's not. But adjusting what you do can protect you from this sort of thing.
Not carrying ammo on an international flight should not require adjusting. It's common fucking sense.
And yet how many stories like this have we seen this year? A state legislator was arrested over this as well.
Again, common sense. These people were dumb enough to bring ammo on an international flight. These are the consequences.
And if a politician was dumb enough to do the same, finally, a politician faced consequences for their actions.
I’m going to guess that you dislike signs that warn of danger. Or warnings about keeping plastic bags away from babies. Those exist for exactly this reason. Warnings about being careful not to leave children in hot cars exist for this exact reason.
Fuck no. First rule of travelling is to check your fucking luggage. When you check your bags in you are asked if you packed it yourself and if everything in it is within the rules. It's no one else's fault two people are too fucking lazy or stupid to double check before checking their bags in.
If those governors will do the same for weed, deal.
How about the governors suggest that their residents don't travel internationally with ammunition?
It is very unlikely these people were carrying ammo.
https://nypost.com/2024/05/08/world-news/bryan-hagerich-dad-facing-turks-and-caicos-prison-time-for-ammo-charge-says-law-has-unintended-consequences/
they admit to it.
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
why are you fabricating bullshit?
I'm not fabricating anything. I'm skeptical that a bunch of irresponsible gun nuts keep getting caught in a nation no irresponsible gun nut has ever heard of, while somehow avoiding capture everywhere else.
Its also strange to me that people on a site all about ACAB when it comes to their own nations are not throwing that skepticism to a nation they also have likely never heard of.
You stated: It is very unlikely these people were carrying ammo.
they admitted to carrying the ammo.
look buddy just because you're not familiar with the turks doesn't mean it's not real. your lack of experience and geography knowledge doesn't poof it out of existence.
https://jalopnik.com/a-gun-is-stolen-from-a-car-every-9-minutes-in-america-1851472717
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/san-antonio-guns-stolen-cars-18570908.php
you really think the gun nuts put that much thought into storage and care for their firearms and associated material huh?
what a buffoon.
I like that I reference the fact that irresponsible gun owners suddenly flocking end masse to a place they wouldn't have hears of turns into you accusing me of having never hears of that place.
Like... What? Okay.
I get it, you like to argue on the internet and being mr. Smarty pants is super important to you. But at least make sense.
en masse.
not end.
why the fuck would people flock to a place they'd never heard of? do you stop to read the shit you're writing?
I don't like to argue on the internet, I like to point out how stupid, inane, and poorly constructed your arguments are. I'm sorry, but I don't have the time or crayons to draw you a picture so it'd make sense to you.
I think you should be taking your anger out on your mother, not randos on the internet, or therapy.
Or go back to reddit. Have a good night.
yikes. you got issues man.
Don't feed the troll (or idiot)
yeah blocked after that, no good arguments.
As a bystander, thanks for that reminder (that it’s very easy to block people on Lemmy).
Back at ya, Batman.
"I have never heard of this country, therefore any arrest made there is a conspiracy."
Your logic is flawless, way to go
...i never said that.
Dude. They admitted they had the ammo.
I mean there was some Nazi guy caught masturbating to gay porn and his Nazi supporters now claim it's the Jew provocation. Do you really expect a different outcome here?
It’s part of the Jewish agenda to turn our white supremacists gay.
Happens all the time!
Per the article 'Four of the detained Americans have admitted they brought the ammunition — but by mistake.'
Then how did they find ammo and why have several admitted they brought the ammo and "forgot"?
Sounds like you're full of shit.
Why is this not happenong at the same rate elsewhere?
People also admit to many things they never did while in custody.
Something fishy is happening here.
or americans just are arrogant and think they're untouchable. see fay, michael and singapore.
I almost forgot that asshole. No one outside the US thought the intervention was warranted. Case in point: the Swiss vandal in 2010
This happens in other Caribbean countries too. If you were to fly to Bermuda or Grenada you’d get in trouble for carrying this stuff.
Yeah, the Brits (since it is a British territory) have been trying to frame every single American to put them in jail since the rebellion!
Do people? Is that the thing?
Okay. Um, while in custody I never ... hopped on one leg.
But why is admitting to things we've never done in custody a thing?
I do not ageee with the poster you respond to, but false confessions are a serious problem. Often (in the US) they arise from hours long interrogations without a lawyer, in which police are allowed to lie about the evidence they have. This leads to situations where a suspect feels like they are done for even if they didn’t commit a crime. When a plea deal is then put in front of them which they are told would be much preferable to getting sentenced without it, they sign and admit to a crime they never committed. It shouldn’t happen but is a thing that unfortunately does occur.
That said, I doubt it being the case here.
How arrogant of those American governers to assume they can just dictate how other countries deal with people smuggling weapons into their country (even if those people claim to have done it as a casual accident).
You're naive if you think it won't work.
20 American doctors starving and dehydrated in Gaza, Israel hitting their supply trucks being shipped in. If the U.S doesn't care about 20 doctors, they surely don't care about a few numbnuts
The US, and certainly it's government, is not a monolith.
You got it backwards. It's not about the people - it's about the principles! What do you think the US cherishes more - medicine or guns?
How so??
Impact to tourism notwithstanding, Turks and Caicos imports 75% of its goods from the US, which also supplies 99% of its petrol. They're not putting anyone in jail for 12 years because the person accidentally had two pistol rounds in their carry-on, let alone a citizen of their biggest trade partner.
fuck that, its not hard to check your luggage before traveling.
Stop throwing the weight of the US government behind trying to protect assholes.
I agree they're stupid, but these aren't people with malicious intent, and you want them to spend 10 years in prison? What do you think this solves?
I mean, all they had to do was take the least amount of effort possible to ensure their luggage was clean.
If they couldnt muster the give a fuck to do that, and intentionally went to a country that they know has these laws...Then why should I muster enough of a fuck to wring my hands desperately over the situation their own lack of care and concern created?
i think this solves the problem of idiots and assholes thinking they can flout rules and get away with it, regardless of its malicious or willful incompetence.
Don't search your luggage? Straight to gulag!
How many years have you taken yoga to be able to stretch and twist like that?
Ive travelled over i ternational borders with a dime bag in my luggage that i didnt even know was there until weeks after i got home. Dont be obtuse, there are lots of compartments in luggage whrre something as small as a bullet can hide even if you check the bag. Who the fuck gives a full cavity search to their luggage everyrime they use it?
look man just because you're apparently a junkie fuckup who can't control his sensitive items does NOT mean the rest of the world's standards should be dropped to accommodate your idiocy.
its crazy how these dumbasses keep tattling on themselves like it somehow justifies this shit, isnt it?
real bright lights all around.
"But officer I left my gun in my car" https://jalopnik.com/youve-got-to-stop-keeping-your-gun-in-your-car-1850929717
"I'm an incompetent, careless and entitled asshole, so obviously I'm going to argue real hard for these other incompetent, careless, entitled assholes so I dont have to be held accountable for my own actions!"
No one is asking you to care about them.
The question is whether or not you honestly think sending these people to prison for 10 years makes any sense. It's the same thing when some poor black kid gets caught with some weed and goes to jail. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, and it's easy to point at their actions and say they were "idiots" for doing drugs and carrying it around them, and that they were "flouting the rules" by having a controlled substance. But I also know an injustice when I see one.
And there is precisely zero indication that these people are "flouting the rules." This would actually more likely apply more to the kid with some pot, because they know it's against the law and they likely know they have it on them. Why would you bring a handful of ammo into a country on vacation with no gun or anything? Hell, even if you had a gun, a few rounds isn't going to do much.
You're trying to paint it in the worst possible light. Slow down, take a breath, and think about this rationally and objectively for a second. Does this really solve a problem? Is this a good thing for our society? At least one of these people is a parent, do you really think it's great they lose their parent for 10+ years because of two bullets accidentally left in a bag? I just can't fathom how anyone sees any justice in this. There's no requirement that you think so vengefully.
"If you had a gun, a few rounds isn't going to do much"
LMFAO one round is enough to commit murder
LMFAO one round is enough to lose 12 years of your life, instead of you know, scanning, seeing they have one round, pulling them aside, taking it out. Yaknow, like what's done with fluids.
Missing the forest for the trees.
It doesn't matter who thinks what. There's a law and it was broken, off you go to jail.
Good thing all laws are ethical, moral and make sense. I imagine everybody on lemmy will agree that laws are the best thing ever that they never break.
yet when we talk about the morality surrounding selling stupid, violent and dangerous people firearms you get laser focused on literal (MISINTERPRETATION) of a 200yr old document. And your stupidity and support of said stupidity literally results in dead kids, by the thousands.
Tell me again about the morality regarding the cult of the bang bang, please.
That's fucking hilarious.
"WOULD ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDRIIIIN" argument about someone who loses 12 years of their life and isn't there to raise them after a single round is found in their baggage. Isn't that what police do with potheads? Guess that's justified too
nuanced argument. you upset bro?
how many people do you think they should just forgive when it keeps fucking happening?
https://nypost.com/2024/05/08/world-news/bryan-hagerich-dad-facing-turks-and-caicos-prison-time-for-ammo-charge-says-law-has-unintended-consequences/
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
how many times should this country watch stupid americans try it again and again before someone actually pays consequences?
and how many people do you think our country would forgive?
pfft.
Having weapons or ammo on you as a civilian is 100% unethical and immoral.
Sure buddy
This guy fascists
So law and morality are the same?
It keeps complete morons off the streets and out of reach of firearms.
Because people who completely lack the necessary care and disciplin should not be armed.
You honestly believe that over a decade in prison is a good punishment for this type of accident? We are talking about it possibly resulting in kids being without their parents for the bulk of their childhood. Do you really think society is better off if that happens?
you and I both know they won't spend a decade in the clink. IF they get sentenced then the state dept will go to work and these jackasses will pay some kind of fine.
Don't want to go to a jail in a foreign country? Don't break their fucking laws. It's really quite simple. And each and every one of these idiots admitted to their crime. Not a single one is innocent.
I would hope not, but I know nothing of the Turks and Caicos legal system, so it would be extremely presumptuous of me to claim I know that.
Either they do something now, or after conviction, I don't particularly care.
This is the whole point, it seems these were completely unintentional violations of their laws. The way you write this makes it sound like they just don't care about the laws there.
people unintentionally break US laws all the time, yet our system still punishes them. and foreigners who visit and do the same too.
it's a law system, not a kindness and forgiveness system.
I think the Turks is fucking justified in being upset at the endless line of assholes who KEEP TRYING TO BRING AMMO into their country. It's not an isolated incident.
Does it really need to be explained that two wrongs don't make a right? It seems mad to me that one would say "these people should be punished because the us justice system does some things poorly."
They didn't pass this law because people were unintentionally bringing tiny amounts of ammo into the country, they passed it because the law wasn't strict enough to punish people smuggling in ammo for gangs. How does one actually convince themselves that they were actually targeting tourists with 10 years in prison because they accidentally bring ammo in the country? Lol
oh you were in the legislature when the laws were crafted?
REALLY?
I'm dubious.
In fact, they didn't pass a law that said "no ammo but one or two rounds is aight". Not "No ammo but accidents happen we understand and will be merciful and lenient, unlike the US's policies..."
no. They're a sovereign nation man, piss and moan, whine and bitch all you want, they get to make their rules and when you go there their rules get to apply to you. Stand up and be an adult. Fuck.
Lol were you in the legislature when they passed this law? You seemed to have no issue declaring the reason for it when it confirmed what you wanted to be true, and now hypocritically are attacking me for for actually knowing why the law exists.
And no one is saying that they can't make their laws as they like. You've so badly lost this argument, and you know it, that you've turned to blatant hypocrisy and to attacking strawmen. Again, to be clear, I'm arguing the law is clearly unjust and it would a travesty of justice that these people lose 10 years of their lives, and their children lose 10 years of their parents, because they made a mistake.
cute gish gallop.
back in reality, you want to take chances with jail time, visit other countries and break their laws about ordinance, if you think this is unique to T&C you'd be in for a fun time.
Beginning to think you have tacos for brains. gonna block you so I don't have to waste more time on your bullshit.
The punishment is first and formost for being terminally stupid. It is high time to stop cuddling the idiots. They broke the law, they should serve. Or do you think that law is just a joke?
stop cuddling the idiots everyone!! They’re getting far to warm and cozy
Why do you feel people need to spend 10 years in jail for being stupid? And no I don't think the law is a joke, I think this one is very unjust.
I travel a lot, both with and without guns. And ammo has a way of ending up in the weirdest little folds of your backpack and clothes.
Sounds like ammo should be handled carefully
Okay, So good on you for admitting you are not capable of keeping track of your shit.
US government still shouldnt be stepping in to protect you from your flagrant disregard for competency.
I live in a socialist haven, would never move to a third world country.
If that's the case you shouldn't be trusted with guns and ammo
Never said I've lost my ammo or been stopped at the security checkpoint.
I never said that too.
That's why you should treat guns and ammo with care. Have you never learned to count?
You're funny. I shot tens of thousands of rounds every month, so no, I do not count individual rounds.
Yep we figured that out after your first remark.
You don't sound like a very smart person.
You sound like a judgemental cunt
Dumb and tactless. The classic gun-nut combo.
You literally called him stupid. Wasn't that tactless?
Go read the person's comments. I think most will agree that their behavior is dumb in every sense of the word. They need to know that. Not that anything will change, but at least they've been called out.
Sooo you being tactless is okay, but them doing the same to you isn't.
Calling someone dumb for being dumb is not tactless. Calling someone a cunt for calling out their objective stupidity is tactless.
Both are equally tactless, and all what you are doing right now is mental gymnastics to feel superior to a guy that called you names as a reaction to you calling them names. You are the one who started not being civil here.
You just keep reinforcing the stereotype
I travel with and without. I have bags specifically for firearms and ammo. That way when I travel somewhere that having just one round of 22lr might be an issue I use a bag that never had my firearm stuff. It eliminates the uncertainty.
Kewl. Till one actually slips by and you are getting 10 years in jail for it.
poor, poor persecuted gun nuts. why won't someone think of the gun nuts?! ah, they're truly the victims.
lol. go to Caribbean jail
Ah yes, "let's put them all to death for owning guns" crowd is here.
ah the 'violate sovereign nation's laws' crowd is here.
how many times do you think they should ignore their laws being violated? 3? 5? 12?
https://nypost.com/2024/05/08/world-news/bryan-hagerich-dad-facing-turks-and-caicos-prison-time-for-ammo-charge-says-law-has-unintended-consequences/
Ryan Watson, 40, of Oklahoma, a father of two who was most recently arrested for unknowingly having ammo in his bag on April 12, remains on the island. Both men previously told Fox News Digital that they had the ammo in their bags from prior hunting trips.
Michael Lee Evans, 72, pleaded guilty to having ammunition in his bag on April 24, according to local news outlet the Turks & Caicos Sun. His sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 18.
What a childish take.
Would America just release tourists who broke their laws?
What is an American law that's equivalent to this?
Weed is legal in Canada, illegal in the US.
Yeah, what about their Second Amendment Rights in other countries? /s
No, not that at all. What they did is unlawful in the US as well.
Bring along a Kinder surprise egg into the US and see how understanding and friendly the US legal system is to people who made a honest mistake.
You can bring them back with no issue. It has never been an issue, just a regulatory prohibition on selling them.
Better example: drugs which are legal in other countries but not the US.
What would US law enforcement do if they found you with illegal (in US) drugs, eh?
They sure as hell wouldn't be letting you off with it.
Marijuana maybe? I don't know how strict the guns laws are there but that's the closest I can think of.
Copyright infringement, DRM circumvention, and "hacking."
See: Aaron Swartz
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
oh I can think of tens of thousands of people imprisoned for just holding a tiny bit of weed. bet some of them were mexican, canadian and otherwise foreign citizens, do you think that gave the local yokels pause in putting them in jail? charging them?
LOLOL
A prison sentence doesn't make sense in these cases, since there is no risk of repeat offenses and therefore no rehabilitation required.
Just give them a 4 digit large fine and maybe deport them, unless you have a non-functioning justice system focused on cruelty, then give them a significant prison sentence.
Keep in mind that legal systems in other countries might actually work differently.
Apparently they had fines before, are facing increased gun violence and thus increased the punishment.
Maybe they love to punish stupid Americans.
Who doesn't?
I say, keep them an extra week, and let the US gov pay the fine for not noticing on departure.
They should be locked up, maximum sentence. American idiotic laws don't apply, they are just like everyone else. Criminals that broke the law and smuggled ammo in. Ignorance is not an excuse of the law, American justice system loves that phrase.
Yeah, no.
It seems that these Americans have discovered that they can't just ignore the rule of law in other countries.
Let them deal with the consequences. Let them lose that American exceptionalism.
Nobody gets a free pass for breaking laws in America, so these Americans shouldn't get a free pass for breaking laws in other countries.
I agree, but on the other hand 12 years? This sounds more like a 12 days crime...
The full story is that Turks and Caicos Islands has struggled against gun violence for years, so it passed much stricter gun laws in 2022. American tourists were violating this law by bringing guns and ammunition in their bags, but the courts in all of the previous cases recognized that prison was a harsh punishment for lapses like this, so they'd reduce the sentence to a fine. But it just kept happening, and perhaps in frustration, in February an appeals court ruled that the lower courts could not exercise that kind of discretion.
Given that those courts had been lowering the penalty to a fine, it seems unlikely that they'll sentence people to long prison terms. (Any prison time does seem like an overreaction, but it also seems that the country got frustrated and wants to send a message about following its laws.)
yup. look at Haiti to see what lax gun controls lead to.
Please be trolling or bot. How could a sentient being write something this nonsensical...
Which word did you have trouble parsing sparky?
You might want to check your notes on that one...
Loose ammo can creep into all kinds of nooks when a box spills open. I've found rounds tucked into the fold of a range bag years after the spill.
It's exactly why my range bags and my travel bags nexer mix.
Are we talking about gummy bears or explosives?
If you let ammo lose around the house, you have MUCH bigger problems than travelling
Somebody goes on a hunting trip. Among other things they pack ammunition. The cardboard box of ammo breaks open and 100 rounds spill all over the inside of their bag. A year later they go on a different trip and bring the same bag with them, and there's a loose round in the folds of the bag they don't know about, but the dog sniffs it out.
That's why I have separate bags and cases specifically for traveling with ammunition.
honestly they should be securing their fucking ammo better. cardboard boxes aren't meant for travel. the packaging it's sold in isn't meant to stand up to abuse. stop pouring casings around your luggage and you'll have an easier time with this.
this is why you don't pleasure travel with your bang bang kit. spent almost a decade in the military, travelling CONSTANTLY, from training to war zones and all over for technical stuff - never ever tried to bring ammo onto an aircraft.
That's exactly what I'm fucking saying.
so you agree they didn't have an excuse. cool.
I'm saying that people screw up and explaining a simple way to avoid the same mistake.
Here on Lemmy saying that you have bags just for carrying ammunition will get you labeled as a baby-killing MAGA extremist because you're so into guns you accessorize with custom luggage for your murder-toys.
I'm explaining that those ammo bags and cases are there specifically to avoid accidents just like this - not as a tacticool fashion statement.
or you know, you could be one of the 2 million people on reserve, guard or active duty. I had bags for both and even with that, never, ever brought home live or blank ammo. it's a sensible precaution if you're around lots of loose ammo, but also, if you take the time to check your shit it really isn't rocket science.
You recognize the injustice of it, but still some individuals, who have not wronged anyone with their acts, should receive lengthy prison terms because you don't like the perceived policies of the us.
Also let's point out that there is absolutely zero evidence that these people are 'ignoring' the law. It seems they are just idiots who made dumb and careless mistakes. You just need to paint it way to justify the completely unjustifiable position of thinking individuals should be punished for the actions of their state.
No, this has nothing to do with the US.
If I go to the US, I have to obey US law or go to jail. Similarly, if a US citizen goes to another country, they have to obey THEIR laws. If their laws say you go to jail when you break them, then what are you crying about?
This is the only objective point to illustrate. Laws aren't monolithic across countries. We wouldn't have countries if they were.
No one is saying they shouldnt have to follow the law because they are Americans. People are pointing out that this law is clearly unjust and ridiculous that someone would spend over a decade behind bars for making a dumb mistake. the law isn't just regardless of what country it is. This is one of the times I have zero problem with the us throwing it's weight around to protect it's citizens around the world: to save them from ridiculous punishments for making a mistake.
Don't crime, don't do time. Isn't that what conservatives love to tell everyone?
SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, they have laws, you obey them or fuck off.
Idiots chose to visit these countries, and chose not to clear their bags of sensitive items that are literally prohibited in those countries.
they fucked around and are finding out.
So do you say the same thing when some young black person goes to jail for a small amount of marijuana? I'm pretty liberal can see the injustice in both of these. I'm not sure why people have such a hard on for seeing these otherwise innocent people going to jail for a stupid mistake. It's like being a conservative and cheering on black kids going to jail for possessing pot.
Why do you want to see them in jail so badly? Have you asked yourself this?
two points here:
one: it's not the same as the black kid; these people are electing to travel out of the country. that kid is living in his environment. when you leave our nation for another, you accept the rules of that nation will apply to you. if you don't want that, DON'T SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO TRAVEL THERE.
A better question: if these travelers are such freedom loving gun enthusiasts, why don't they patronize countries that invite their tourism? HUH.
And two:
Want to travel? You don't get to bring your own rules.
Try taking a small amount of marijuana to singapore.
Do I agree with their laws? NO. Do I fuck around and attempt to find out? No. I have better things to do with my life than languish in a jail or be executed for pot.
Holy shit, you're actually trying to argue that it's unjust to be punished for intentionally breaking a law, but perfectly fine to be punished with 10 years in prison for making a mistake.
You're very blatantly playing the role of the racist conservative gleefully cheering on the imprisonment of a person from a group they don't like, regardless of the justness of the reason, and you have no idea.
Again, you keep trying to paint it as them intentionally breaking the law. There is no indication of this. It seems just dishonest at this point to continually frame it this way. They didn't "attempt to find out" they fucked up. Why is this so hard for you to admit?
lol put down the bong son... jfc, get over yourselves
You've made it clear the reason you have a hard on for these people being punished is that they gun owners and you don't like gun owners. I'm just holding the mirror up and you don't like what you see.
"Gun owner" is not an immutable attribute. Its not a skin colour. Comparing dislike of gun owners to racism is ridiculous.
One can only commit an injustice against a person if it's an immutable characteristic? That seems dumb in and of itself.
Ftr, possessing drugs is not a immutable attribute either.
But if that's your hang up, the logical next thought would be "what if I take race out of it" and it's just a conservative cheering on someone doing serious jail time for possession of a small amount of marijuana.
oof, another swing and a miss. you're so damned close tho kid.... tell you what. I make a distinction. I actually have a ton of respect for many gun owners; unfortunately, too many are fucking idiots who don't keep their weapons and ammo accounted for.
And I despise those fucks. They're the idiots getting children killed, supplying criminals with weapons and pissing off our neighbor countries with petty bullshit like this.
What I'd like to see happen: responsible people keep their privileges - but what I'm certain is going to happen is that everyone is going to be punished because the fucking morons can't stop leaving their pewpews in their fucking unlocked cars.
https://jalopnik.com/youve-got-to-stop-keeping-your-gun-in-your-car-1850929717
so... you do you sport, will probably block you so I don't have to explain shit after this.
Yeah say that again keeping in mind that the US regularly has killed civilians in the past, sometimes by mistake, sometimes as expected collateral. Sounds a bit hollow, then.
Why do so many people think it's a good argument to say that because the us does some bad shit, otherwise innocent people should spend a decade in prison for making a mistake? It's makes zero sense.
This isn't punishment for actions of their state lol, this is punishment for their own actions.
The state didn't tell them to put bullets in their luggage.
Yes, I understand this, and it's not what I said at all. Not even remotely.
Let me break it down for you:
Top level poster was saying noone in the us gets a break, so these people from the us should not get a break.
They think that because the us has bad policies, these people should be punished.
Their position had less ( or even nothing ) to do with whether these actions should be punishable because they themselves are bad, their position is about them being punished as some kind of pay back for us policy.
Nope, this is a deliberate mischaracterization of the argument.
It goes like this:
1 - you're not supposed to fly with loose ammo.
2 - many countries prohibit you visiting with ammunition.
3 - if you break a foreign nations laws, that nation can and will imprison you.
not calculus, it's pretty fucking simple.
I can easily follow that logic and I get it. The whole point is that the poster is arguing they deserve to be punished by arguing that people would be punished by the us system. What the us system does or does not do has zero bearing on whether this is just.
ok, think of it this way then:
they went out of their way to patronize a country that does NOT invite firearms-tourism. why weren't they smart enough or patriotic bang bang enough to travel someplace they could bring their stuff to?
tsk. poor decision making by them, poor judgement by the gun lovers in this thread who would see them skate on their crimes.
I couldn't care less why they weren't smart enough. I'm okay with them being punished for it, but in these cases a fine seems more reasonable than a decade in prison.
I'm for pretty strict gun control. You are exposing yourself here: this isn't about being reasonable, it's about some vengefulness against gun owners. Get out of your black and white thinking and taking sides and be objective.
how'bout, no?
you do you mate.
Being an idiot doesn't mean you're exempt from the law. Who the fuck packs ammo to go to a different country?
Noone is saying they're exempt from the law, only that it is clearly an injustice that someone go to jail for a decade for making a dumb mistake.
Do you really think the intent of the law is to send people to jail for accidentally carrying some ammo?
Tell me how you "accidentally" carry ammo in your luggage?
Can I ask that you first explain to me why you think this mother, while travelling with her daughter, was intentionally trying to smuggle 2 rounds of ammo out of Turks and Caicos? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for this, I'd be happy to answer your question.
You first.
Obviously not a good faith question.
Well, if people travel into a foreign country and don't even care about the laws of said country (not in detail, just reading the governmental warnings would have been sufficient), they deserve what happens.
Imagine I would travel to the US and would bring along some Kinder surprise eggs by mistake. Would those governors show mercy to me? I don't think so.
Or just serve alcohol to people of legal drinking age (in your country) along with the Kinder eggs.
Yep. Americans would shit their pants if they saw 14 year olds drinking beer or wine - legally.
Americans complaining about the detention: "My countries' laws are fine and the very standard of reason. All of you other countries should chill out!"
Jfc you shouldn't have ammo in luggage. Not surprised they were arrestex6
Does anybody know if these guys have oil?
they're owned by the uk so they've already suffered enough without the us invading them.
It's enough when the CIA says it's enough
If I were one of them, the NRA would be the last group I'd want advocating for my release...
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Three U.S. governors this week asked Turks and Caicos to show mercy to Americans arrested on the islands as a Florida woman became the fifth U.S. tourist to be charged with ammunition possession.
The lawmakers' plea came as the Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police confirmed yet another American, 45-year-old Sharitta Shinise Grier of Orlando, Florida, was charged with one count of ammunition possession after two rounds were allegedly discovered in her luggage on Monday during a routine search at Howard Hamilton International Airport.
The National Rifle Association on Thursday urged the U.S. State Department to "use every means necessary to return U.S. citizens home to America."
That changed in February when a court order required even tourists to potentially face mandatory prison time in addition to paying a fine.
TSA confirmed to CBS News its officers missed the four rounds of hunting ammo in Watson's carry-on when he and his wife departed from Oklahoma City in April.
"To me, the solution here is to put more technology assists available to them," Pekosek told CBS News senior transportation correspondent Kris Van Cleave, pointing to software that would be able to identify rounds of ammunition, pieces of firearms and various knives.
The original article contains 523 words, the summary contains 200 words. Saved 62%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Those fools are trying to contain Florida Woman? Good luck, you poor bastards.
Happened in the Philippines around 6-8 years ago, nefarious airport security would intentionally put ammo in a victims luggage with the intention of shaking them for bribe. It lead travellers to wrap their luggage in plastic prior to departure. As far as I know they targeted locals I don't remember foreign victims.
this is not a shakedown. the perpetrators admitted it and pled guilty. it's stupid american guntwats who can't keep track of their sensitive items.
Ah I love this thread, the duality of Lemmy
Hicks:
"I have two bags I use whenever I am going outside my family land, sorry I missed a shell or two from the last time I went huntin, so what, I'm just an American"
Others:
"FUCK AROUND FIND OUT!!! One ammo? That's like 30 pounds of heroin, I hope you go to prison you dumb motherfucker"
fuck them. keep them locked up forever. fafo and they'll learn americans aren't the centre of the world.
They are idiots, but you just said to abduct people beyond written law in their country and hold them against their will. I don't think the UK will support that idea very much. They should face the time for the crimes they did, but "keep them locked up forever" is some backwards ass views clearly not focusing on prisons to be for recovery, just simply imprisonment for life... When no one was actually harmed from their actions. Really it shouldn't be much of an issue. Pulled over for going over the speed limit but not harming anyone. "Keep them locked up forever"
One of the most useful Vietnam-style traps requires exactly one shot as a hard to get component.
The weird thing is that it's not like loose ammo is dangerous. It doesn't just "go off".
Four rounds of ammo? Give them a slap on the wrist and send them home. If it was a box of ammo I'd feel differently. How you get ammo in the luggage is beyond me, but at 4 it was obviously an accident, they are obviously not trying to smuggle weapons in at that point.
Their country, their rules. One bullet can still kill someone. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
So can a fork. They didn't travel with a gun apparently. Going to have to go shut down every Lowe's that sells fertilizer, because you could rig it up and make it explode... Like a bullet without a gun.
What the fuck are you on about? Are people traveling with an entire Lowe's warehouse in their fucking luggage?
When you go into someone's house, you follow their rules.
Yes and when you punish someone you use a reasonable level of punishment.
Take the ammo and put them on the next flight home. And tell them next time the punishment will be more severe
That's absolutely what we do when people carry cocaine into America. We take it, escort them to the border, and firmly tell them not to do it again.
I don't know if you were aware how ridiculous your statement was and were arguing in bad faith but if not... please do realize that smuggling is generally heavily punished.
If the situation occurred here in the states, the person would also be facing jail time. So your logic makes no sense.
How careless do you have to be to just have ammo lying around, unknown to you? Here's a thought, T&C says they'll release them if they lose their right to own a gun in the US?
If anything they’ll be celebrated by pro gun groups:
NRA: "Help us, government that we constantly talk about as an evil entity trying to take away our rights!"
I'm guessing. These ppl are white
nra are literally gonna get us into a war with the united kingdom aren't they?
Why the fuck would you bring ammo to begin with?
They traveled with their normal bag they go around with in regular life. Lesson: NEVER TRAVEL WITH THE BAG YOU CARRY AROUND DAILY because you will forget what's in there.
Or don’t carry guns wherever you go like a fanatical vigilante?! You Americans created a problem that doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world.
That's good advice, especially when traveling internationally.
Also when traveling to another country, always check the state department's travel advisory for your destination(s).
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/International-Travel-Country-Information-Pages/TurksandCaicosIslands.html
Obviously this is the US state department, but it is still good info and I'd assume other countries have something similar.
Yo the State Department page for Iceland is fucking fire. It warns about pickpockets by telling travelers to be cognizant of “getting jostled”, especially in the capital on weekends because everyone gets drunk then and the jostling risk is higher. What a delightful warning. I’m convinced the pickpockets in Iceland are all the fox version of Robin Hood in Iceland.
Some of the State Department pages go hard as fuck though. Take a look at the one for Russia and watch any sympathy for Britney Grinier or that fucking Army dude evaporate into thin air. Libya’s page is wild and so is Syria’s, which actually says “yeah fam, we shut that fucking embassy down. if you’re idiot ass needs help hit up the Czechs”. Burma (Myanmar) goes pretty hard too, in addition to the risk of kidnapping, wrongful detention, arbitrary enforcement of local laws, etc., there’s the “your prolly gonna step on some uxo and splatter your fucking intestines on your travel partner my dude. stop. don’t go here.”
You keep ammo in your fucking purse?
I carry a pocket knife and a BIC lighter for utility needs. I have nearly forgotten to take out the pocket knife before leaving for the airport. I have also seen other stories like this, so I decided that my courier bag for travel is not the same one I use daily.
That's fair - I've nearly lost good pocket knives in the same way... but it's a long way from pocket knives to ammunition.
I don’t have or want a gun. I think they are stupid. I’m just saying that I get how it could happen.
Or just freaking empty it and only pack what you need. Its hardly difficult.
And yet, this keeps happening so it may actually be difficult.
Difficult. To check your travel bags for ammo.
How low do we set the bar before we blame the individuals?
I’ve never discovered ammunition loose in a bag or pocket. It’s been used or put away safely. Period. Why? Because duh.
Where’d I say that they weren’t responsible? I’m saying I can see how it could happen. It’s unclear why this bothers you.
Still isn't a valid excuse.
I agree that it's not. But adjusting what you do can protect you from this sort of thing.
Not carrying ammo on an international flight should not require adjusting. It's common fucking sense.
And yet how many stories like this have we seen this year? A state legislator was arrested over this as well.
Again, common sense. These people were dumb enough to bring ammo on an international flight. These are the consequences.
And if a politician was dumb enough to do the same, finally, a politician faced consequences for their actions.
I’m going to guess that you dislike signs that warn of danger. Or warnings about keeping plastic bags away from babies. Those exist for exactly this reason. Warnings about being careful not to leave children in hot cars exist for this exact reason.
Fuck no. First rule of travelling is to check your fucking luggage. When you check your bags in you are asked if you packed it yourself and if everything in it is within the rules. It's no one else's fault two people are too fucking lazy or stupid to double check before checking their bags in.
If those governors will do the same for weed, deal.
I have no problem with that.
They do.
I had assumed airport agents put the ammunition in the luggage to get bribes.
That’s not necessary, Americans unnecessarily carrying guns everywhere happens all the time
They weren't carrying guns.
No one said these people were.
People downvoting don't realise this has happenned in some countries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninoy_Aquino_International_Airport_bullet_planting_scandal#:~:text=The%20Ninoy%20Aquino%20International%20Airport,Ninoy%20Aquino%20International%20Airport%20(NAIA)
So? It's still irrelevant here.
I had too, but apparently that is not the case.