Wouldn't our wages just get garnished or shit repo'd or something? I'm 100% for forgiveness cuz fuck that predatory shit, but this route seems like a guarantee to just exacerbate harm to the borrowers.
Nothing will be repoed. They may garnish your wages but at the end of the day, there is no collateral.
Garnished wages is still a huge problem.
Student loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy.
The federal government will garnish borrowers wages until they are paid, even if the borrower is bankrupt.
They look at your wages and expenses. I knew a dentist who got garnished 10 dollars a month. That’s all he could afford.
You can’t take blood from a turnip
Fuck now I want turnips.
Jan Jansen?
I went to a place and picked some the other day. Ironically picking your own vegetables is more expensive than buying them.
i applied for income based repayment program 3-4 different times, always denied. I was making around 2k/month, and they wanted me to pay $1000/month. after getting rejected the third or fourth time, I just stopped even attempting to handle the debt in good faith.
That is insane. I don't think college should be free but it needs to be less expensive. It shouldn't cost an arm and leg to go to college and cost more than a car. I strongly support a subsidized school system that is reasonably priced.
Free just means fewer people would be able to go. That is how most other countries handle the situation. I want everyone to have access to a low cost education to better themselves either for a job or just for personal enjoyment. I am always taking college classes but it has become a strain on my budget.
Why shouldn't it be free? I mean if businesses are making A LOT of money from the labour of those who've paid extraordinary amounts for their education - and are no where near providing equal compensation for that labour - then businesses should be paying for ALL education.
I explained why it shouldn't be free. We would have to limit the number of students like the rest of the world does to control the cost. We would close it off to only the brightest and most people would be excluded from a college education.
That is how most countries handle college. Only the best get to go and the rest go to trade school or just work other jobs. I want people here to have the chance to better themselves. That is the American dream.
Only the best get to go and the rest go to trade school or just work other jobs. I want people here to have the chance to better themselves. That is the American dream.
But they would have the chance to better themselves, by having good enough scores to get in. That's what "chance" means. What you're really suggesting is that everybody be guaranteed college, which is hardly the same thing.
More to the point, sending everybody to college is a waste and does a disservice both to society and the less-college-inclined individuals who otherwise wouldn't have gone. We need more people learning actual useful skills like plumbing and welding and whatnot, and we don't need them wasting years of their life earning a bullshit diploma-mill* bachelor's degree that they'll never use and would only serve to inflate the requirements for job applications.
Besides, if you want the baseline level of education to change from K-12 to K-16, just say that instead.
(* And they are bullshit diploma mills, because if the people we're talking about were capable of completing a rigorous curriculum, they'd have succeeded under the merit-based system you're decrying to begin with.)
I am suggesting no such thing. I have never suggested guaranteed college for anyone. What I have said is college should be affordable and available. You may be confusing me with the previous person who wants free college for everyone. I don't support that.
I'm not confusing anything. You are advocating that people be given "the chance to better themselves," but apparently failing to understand that a free college system with admissions limited by merit accomplishes exactly that: to give everyone a chance to show sufficient merit to get in!
By rejecting a merit-based system, you're actually advocating that everybody be able to go to college even despite failing their "chance," which sure sounds like a guarantee to me!
I have never advocated for free college. I am not sure why you keep saying that. I said college should be affordable. I’ve clearly stated I do not think it should be free.
Once again I never said guaranteed but available. That’s how I system works now. We have community colleges, colleges and universities.
People can go through the system based on their ability.
In many countries If they miss a window, that’s it. We don’t have that here and it’s a good thing.
I have never advocated for free college. I am not sure why you keep saying that.
I'm not saying that. You're the one trying to put words in my mouth, not the other way around. If you think that's incorrect, prove it by quoting me.
Once again I never said guaranteed but available. That’s how I system works now. We have community colleges, colleges and universities.
Fine; we'll pretend for a moment that non-merit-based "availability" is somehow different from a "guarantee" of admission. Either way, it's way more misguided and harmful to society than free college with limited admissions based solely on merit!
Again, having everybody get a college degree just for the sake of inflating expectations such that even shitty sales-clerk-type jobs require them as a baseline for consideration does nobody any fucking good! Neither society, nor the degree-holding sales clerks themselves. So what do you hope to accomplish by it?
The people who can't get in to college in a limited-admission merit-based system are precisely the ones who are better off not going. This ridiculous "everybody needs to go to college" expectation has created an entire generation of people who are screwed because they wasted half a decade getting useless degrees only to end up with barely mediocre jobs anyway, when they would have been BOTH HAPPIER AND MORE SUCCESSFUL doing the "blue collar" work the dipshit high school guidance counselors warned them away from!
A lot of the borderline-suicidal sales clerks in this thread should've become welders etc., but didn't because of attitudes like yours.
P.S.: The notion that people learning a blue-collar skilled trade is somehow incompatible with them "hav[ing] the chance to better themselves" is ridiculously classist. You should be ashamed of yourself for that.
We shall see. The court battles could rage for decades.
They can't force you to give them money you don't have. Just leave the country.
yes, I will use the money I don't have to leave the country. 🧠
Read my other comments on it. You can get money from the gov (well more than enough to leave)
Where are you going to get the money or skills to get some other country to accept you, though? If you had those, you wouldn't be trying to leave (at least for this reason) in the first place!
This is a fictional situation where a person loaned money to go/finish school. If you went to school, have a shit ton of debt, AND don't want to do anything to improve, sure.
Plenty (PLENTY) of countries take Americans no questions asked. The tough ones to get into are the ones that check your skin color before entry. But for those in particular, just be white and you'll likely get in anyway. Such is life :/
It's not a question of getting in; it's a question of getting in with the kind of visa that allows you to work and being allowed to stay long-term.
For example, even a white engineer like me would have trouble immigrating to somewhere like New Zealand without already having an employer lined up beforehand. The relevant type of visa isn't even accepting new "expressions of interest" right now, LOL.
Using a tiny-ass country as an example of tough immigration is disingenuous. Plenty of places will take you. Open your mind.
I'm reasonably confident that Canada, Australia, the UK, and Ireland (i.e. the rest of the wealthy English-speaking countries that an American would most likely want to go to), along with the rest of western Europe, have similar restrictions.
Wouldn't our wages just get garnished or shit repo'd or something? I'm 100% for forgiveness cuz fuck that predatory shit, but this route seems like a guarantee to just exacerbate harm to the borrowers.
Nothing will be repoed. They may garnish your wages but at the end of the day, there is no collateral.
Garnished wages is still a huge problem.
Student loans are not forgiven in bankruptcy.
The federal government will garnish borrowers wages until they are paid, even if the borrower is bankrupt.
They look at your wages and expenses. I knew a dentist who got garnished 10 dollars a month. That’s all he could afford.
You can’t take blood from a turnip
Fuck now I want turnips.
Jan Jansen?
I went to a place and picked some the other day. Ironically picking your own vegetables is more expensive than buying them.
i applied for income based repayment program 3-4 different times, always denied. I was making around 2k/month, and they wanted me to pay $1000/month. after getting rejected the third or fourth time, I just stopped even attempting to handle the debt in good faith.
That is insane. I don't think college should be free but it needs to be less expensive. It shouldn't cost an arm and leg to go to college and cost more than a car. I strongly support a subsidized school system that is reasonably priced. Free just means fewer people would be able to go. That is how most other countries handle the situation. I want everyone to have access to a low cost education to better themselves either for a job or just for personal enjoyment. I am always taking college classes but it has become a strain on my budget.
@wintermute_oregon @jpreston2005
Why shouldn't it be free? I mean if businesses are making A LOT of money from the labour of those who've paid extraordinary amounts for their education - and are no where near providing equal compensation for that labour - then businesses should be paying for ALL education.
I explained why it shouldn't be free. We would have to limit the number of students like the rest of the world does to control the cost. We would close it off to only the brightest and most people would be excluded from a college education. That is how most countries handle college. Only the best get to go and the rest go to trade school or just work other jobs. I want people here to have the chance to better themselves. That is the American dream.
@wintermute_oregon
Why would we have to limit the number of students?
edit to add -- If businesses are paying ALL education costs there's no reasons whatsoever to limit education.
Then why isn’t anyone else in the world doing it ? Because unit isn’t cost effective.
Also it isn’t the role of a business to pay for everything you want. That would bankrupt most companies overnight.
@wintermute_oregon
There are actually 24 countries that have free college education.
https://financesonline.com/free-college-education-statistics/
They don’t offer it to everyone. I’ve already addressed that. They control the numbers by standards. Something we don’t do in America.
A good example is Sweden. Their students come out owing almost as much as the average American.
https://www.bustedcubicle.com/advocacy/student-debt#:~:text=While%20Swedish%20universities%20don't,the%20American%20figure%20of%20%2437%2C400.
@wintermute_oregon
Then do what Canada does.
It's not that hard to find a better way than what America does now.
But they would have the chance to better themselves, by having good enough scores to get in. That's what "chance" means. What you're really suggesting is that everybody be guaranteed college, which is hardly the same thing.
More to the point, sending everybody to college is a waste and does a disservice both to society and the less-college-inclined individuals who otherwise wouldn't have gone. We need more people learning actual useful skills like plumbing and welding and whatnot, and we don't need them wasting years of their life earning a bullshit diploma-mill* bachelor's degree that they'll never use and would only serve to inflate the requirements for job applications.
Besides, if you want the baseline level of education to change from K-12 to K-16, just say that instead.
(* And they are bullshit diploma mills, because if the people we're talking about were capable of completing a rigorous curriculum, they'd have succeeded under the merit-based system you're decrying to begin with.)
I am suggesting no such thing. I have never suggested guaranteed college for anyone. What I have said is college should be affordable and available. You may be confusing me with the previous person who wants free college for everyone. I don't support that.
I'm not confusing anything. You are advocating that people be given "the chance to better themselves," but apparently failing to understand that a free college system with admissions limited by merit accomplishes exactly that: to give everyone a chance to show sufficient merit to get in!
By rejecting a merit-based system, you're actually advocating that everybody be able to go to college even despite failing their "chance," which sure sounds like a guarantee to me!
I have never advocated for free college. I am not sure why you keep saying that. I said college should be affordable. I’ve clearly stated I do not think it should be free.
Once again I never said guaranteed but available. That’s how I system works now. We have community colleges, colleges and universities.
People can go through the system based on their ability.
In many countries If they miss a window, that’s it. We don’t have that here and it’s a good thing.
I'm not saying that. You're the one trying to put words in my mouth, not the other way around. If you think that's incorrect, prove it by quoting me.
Fine; we'll pretend for a moment that non-merit-based "availability" is somehow different from a "guarantee" of admission. Either way, it's way more misguided and harmful to society than free college with limited admissions based solely on merit!
Again, having everybody get a college degree just for the sake of inflating expectations such that even shitty sales-clerk-type jobs require them as a baseline for consideration does nobody any fucking good! Neither society, nor the degree-holding sales clerks themselves. So what do you hope to accomplish by it?
The people who can't get in to college in a limited-admission merit-based system are precisely the ones who are better off not going. This ridiculous "everybody needs to go to college" expectation has created an entire generation of people who are screwed because they wasted half a decade getting useless degrees only to end up with barely mediocre jobs anyway, when they would have been BOTH HAPPIER AND MORE SUCCESSFUL doing the "blue collar" work the dipshit high school guidance counselors warned them away from!
A lot of the borderline-suicidal sales clerks in this thread should've become welders etc., but didn't because of attitudes like yours.
P.S.: The notion that people learning a blue-collar skilled trade is somehow incompatible with them "hav[ing] the chance to better themselves" is ridiculously classist. You should be ashamed of yourself for that.
If enough people refuse to pay, the courts can't keep up.
We shall see. The court battles could rage for decades.
They can't force you to give them money you don't have. Just leave the country.
yes, I will use the money I don't have to leave the country. 🧠
Read my other comments on it. You can get money from the gov (well more than enough to leave)
Where are you going to get the money or skills to get some other country to accept you, though? If you had those, you wouldn't be trying to leave (at least for this reason) in the first place!
This is a fictional situation where a person loaned money to go/finish school. If you went to school, have a shit ton of debt, AND don't want to do anything to improve, sure.
Plenty (PLENTY) of countries take Americans no questions asked. The tough ones to get into are the ones that check your skin color before entry. But for those in particular, just be white and you'll likely get in anyway. Such is life :/
It's not a question of getting in; it's a question of getting in with the kind of visa that allows you to work and being allowed to stay long-term.
For example, even a white engineer like me would have trouble immigrating to somewhere like New Zealand without already having an employer lined up beforehand. The relevant type of visa isn't even accepting new "expressions of interest" right now, LOL.
Using a tiny-ass country as an example of tough immigration is disingenuous. Plenty of places will take you. Open your mind.
I'm reasonably confident that Canada, Australia, the UK, and Ireland (i.e. the rest of the wealthy English-speaking countries that an American would most likely want to go to), along with the rest of western Europe, have similar restrictions.