The endless battle to banish the world’s most notorious stalker website
washingtonpost.com
The endless battle to banish the world’s most notorious stalker website::undefined
The endless battle to banish the world’s most notorious stalker website::undefined
I don't think we should ever celebrate people being deplatformed.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/isps-should-not-police-online-speech-no-matter-how-awful-it
If the content is illegal pursue legal means to punish the posters. But to create a layer of censorship on the internet, that is enforced by opinions of companies, is a terrible precedent
But let's say they win, and they get the domain blocked everywhere. They'll just launch a new domain, just like all the pirate streaming sites do.
If a telecommunications provider disconnect someone because of content, they should lose their safe harbor provisions as a telecommunications provider. They should now be responsible for all content on their wires because they're now editorializing
To the ones down-voting this comment.
People keep piling up on the EFF without reading that article.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/isps-should-not-police-online-speech-no-matter-how-awful-it
The EFF supports prosecuting Kiwi Farms, they are just opposed to the dangerous precedent an ISP block sets.
To those down voting, you have to decide if the internet is a human right or not. If it is, it must be for everyone, or it is for no one. As soon as we make exceptions to basic rights, those rights get eroded for everyone. Because people in power will bend the exceptions to political expediency.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Internet_access
I believe in the tolerance social contract. You deserve rights so long as you respect the rights of others. Kiwi farms has absolutely no respect for anybody's rights, and hence does not deserve any themselves.
I agree with you in principle. My only concern is who is judging, and making the decision that someone doesn't have any rights. If it's private companies? That's going to be very bad for all of us.
Imagine a small town power company turning off the power to a small town newspaper because they said something mean about their cousin the sheriff.
Hear hear. Obviously this site should be shut down. But it should be done so on basis of fair trial. Not because of mob justice, or corporations that answer only to shareholders.
Right now, this is analogous to having an active shooter walking around gunning down people, and a random person safely elsewhere saying 'Don't shoot him, he has rights!'. No, people are actively suffering and dying. Fix the emergency first, then consider the ramifications.
The problem is that the ramifications are clear as day and imminent. Other parties have been calling for ISP blocks for the longest time.
Using your analogy, the active shooter is walking around holding a dead-man's switch connected to bombs in a few other areas. People like you are saying "it doesn't matter that bombs are going to explode, just shoot him!"
It’s more like there’s an active shooter, and we know any violent techniques we use to stop him will immediately be seen by the right as fair game tactics against us in any context, and used against us in perpetuity.
They're going to do that anyway
That’s no reason to make it easy.
Sort of. Corps have become bloated with power and this would just be another notch on the belt, however, if there's an active shooter, it's the police's job to take care of it, not local businesses.
This should also be a government role to send people like this to trial. We already live in a surveillance state, use it to stop shit heads at least.
The right will make pleas that sound equally dangerous to the average fool. It’d be easy enough for them to try to get the very sites that exist to support trans kids and say “we need to shut these down because they’re harming/multilating kids,” like they always say. And then a sympathetic judge shuts them down, I hope you’re happy with the kids you saved now, because there will be so many you can’t.
This is the best approach and one had has far wider application beyond just the internet
Paradox of tolerance* in effect
See below for a smarter user than me
It's the paradox of tolerance.
"A truly tolerant society cannot be tolerant of intolerance."
Not, "A truly intolerant society cannot be intolerant of tolerance."
They are not blocking the domain. They're making people drop their nazi-ISP from the internet backbone.
That's fantastic news, I agree.
But who decides what should ISPs block next? Should Florida pressure American ISPs to block all abortion-related sites? Should Disney pressure ISPs to block all torrent sites?
Good point.
At the geopolitical level if companies are censoring the West's free and open internet, what grounds do our politicians have to pressure more draconian countries not to censor their internet?
We have to demonstrate our principles if we want them to be adopted globally. If we demonstrate censorship... We will have it
There's a reason North Korea still has an internet connection
You are comparing the work of a mass of people to fight back against hate with the actions of authorities and institutions.
Can you see how the work of masses of people is more democratic?
Sure, the net effect is the site won't load.
Their onion site is still up, so not all of their data center links were severed
Friend, you do you, and in the meanwhile the rest of us are in fact going to be right there celebrating the fuck out of the deplatforming of a bunch of horrible people whose pastime is literally to drive trans kids to suicide.
Who is "the rest of us"?
🍻
@L3s@lemmy.world - your bot seems to add
undefinedat the end of the text.Thanks, I'll fix it later this week!
For a site filled with users who are more tech-savvy than the average person, I'm surprised there is such a big dichotomy in views here. Or maybe it's just one or two really vocal individuals.
I think everyone is agreed that the site is a cesspool that deserves to die. The issue is that getting ISPs to voluntarily block sites based on advocacy is bad. As the provider of a "digital human right", ISPs should NOT get to decide who gets their service and who doesn't.
The EFF isn't supporting hate groups. What they're saying is that an ISP block is a dangerous precedent.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/isps-should-not-police-online-speech-no-matter-how-awful-it
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Founded in 2013, Kiwi Farms has been used to organize vicious harassment and stalking campaigns against targets including Clara Sorrenti, a transgender activist known as Keffals, and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (Ga.), a far-right Republican.
Over the past year, their little group of internet sleuths, trans engineers and activists has methodically chased Kiwi Farms across servers and networks around the globe, successively persuading more than two dozen companies to drop the site.
Sorrenti, a Twitch streamer who became famous as a news star for trans youth, had been under attack for months by Kiwi Farms users, who she said doxed her address and “swatted” her home, filing a false crime report that drove police to her door.
After earlier attempts to take down the site, he incorporated as his own internet service provider, acquiring his own physical hardware, network resources and a block of IP addresses, making Kiwi Farms much more difficult to dislodge.
The group slowly discovered a network of what they called “sh--hosts” — low-end internet providers who work with disreputable sites that spread malware or offensive content, arguing that they have a right to free speech.
Last week, the Electronic Frontier Foundation published an opinion piece arguing that Tier 1 ISPs should not bow to pressure to drop Kiwi Farms, calling the move “a dangerous step” toward censorship.
The original article contains 1,936 words, the summary contains 221 words. Saved 89%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
It's not the job of isp's to block this.
It's not the job of the road infrastructure companies to block bad (or somehow illegal) drivers.
Kiwi Farms was stalking and enciting hatred towards trans people. They had a body count. I am glad they're offline.
OP this was a really good discussion. I think the comment section below demonstrates why fighting never-ending battles isn't the approach to solve systemic problems. Systemic problems need systemic solutions.
After all this discussion, I went to the site in question to see what all the fuss was about but I found a few things interesting.
The site, the site owner, is a known (with address and everything) US company. So fully under the jurisdiction of US courts.
They have a really interesting internet tier list, telling of all their history with different interconnects, isps, and other internet infrastructure.
I don't want to link to them, given how contentious it is, but their internet history is really fascinating and relevant to this post about 'wack-a-mole' internet services. I've included a link below to a archive.is snapshot of their internet history, which has some trigger words, but is mostly technical
::: spoiler url
https://archive.ph/mJhey
:::