What a cluster. I feel for devs who are in a bad spot here thanks to yet more corporate greed.
I hope that one positive that stems from this is less trust in corporate solutions, since ultimately they are always beholden to profit -- unlike things like Godot, that now also hopefully get the support they deserve.
Oh good, so over half my Steam library
I feel for them because i switch games all the time on my deck, even with a 1tb sdcard on top of the 512gb, you have to remove games and install games all the time. I'm not going to feel guilty about this, they are my games, i paid for them and will install and uninstall as i see fit. Not out of malice, but because this is expected behavior. I imagine there are going to be a lot of lawsuits over this, and more than a few bankruptcies. They also can't remove games you've already paid for, so this is going to get interesting.
A lot of Nintendo and Pokemon games are on Unity, including Pokemon Go. Sony also has plenty of games on Unity
I predict we're going to see a slaughter - That's two of the big three console manufacturers. They ain't going to let Unity screw them over
But by the same token I also wouldn't put it past Nintendo and Sony to make backroom deals with Unity. And bonus if it screws over the competition.
And do what with it? Embrace, Extend, and then Extinguish it nd screw people over even more?
Unity made it clear that reinstalling on the same device doesn’t count. Though installing on multiple devices counts since they don’t track who installed it.
Did they clarify how they track "the same device"? If I replace my SSD, is that's new device? Gpu? Motherboard? Cpu? Get more ram? Reinstall the OS?
And even then, I usually install on 2-3 different devices. And what happens when 10 years down the road I want to okay it again and install it on 2 more devices?
@basxto
Interesting to see how they determine what a new "device" is, and how they record that. The EU will definitely have views. @FreeBooteR69
Do installs of the same game by the same user across multiple devices count as different installs?
We treat different devices as different installs. We don’t want to track identity across different devices.
Is collecting the install data GDPR and CCPA compliant?
The method we are using to calculate installs is currently derived from aggregated data from various sources collected in compliance with all privacy laws and used to build a confidence around our estimate. If anything changes, we will provide you with notice and compliance mechanisms to assure all parties remain in compliance with applicable laws. Please note we will always work with our customers to ensure accurate billing.
Will games made with Unity phone-home to track installs?
We will refine how we collect install data over time with a goal of accurately understanding the number of times the Unity runtime is distributed. Any install data will be collected in accordance with our Privacy Policy and applicable privacy laws.
They likely don’t track identities because that would be personal information, which is what GDPR protects.
@basxto I appreciate you running point for Unity on this, but "from various sources collected in compliance with all privacy laws" says nothing.
Easy enough to wait and see how they do phone home, and with what data they send back though.
Their posts sounded a lot like they already collected that data based their pricing on that. They are desperate to become profitable, I don’t think they themselves thought this was the best idea.
I would like to see godot rise.
Yeah, I feel really bad for the devs. Some of my favorite games are being affected
Nebulous is still in early access and it's a 3 man team. This will effectively end an incredible game before it can fulfill it's early access.
I hope John Riccitiello has chronic pain for the rest of his life. No one should be able to unilaterally fuck over so many people.
Same for Valheim
EA 101
You're coming after my Rimworld?! BITCH IS YOU CRAZY?!
It seems they switched from Haxe/OpenFL to Haxe/Unity in march
Yikes, there goes more of my library
@mossy_capivara@uuhhhhmmmm Yeah, I don't think those games and the developers behind them are at fault for Unity's bullshit.
Just block Unity's telemetry call by redirecting the URLs to 127.0.0.1 on your hosts file and done
Wouldn't unity just block the games from running if they don't connect? I guess you could crack the games, then maybe we'll have some weird future where devs encourage players to crack their games..
@Nemoder Cracking the games doesn't do shit in this matter. It'd block the online functions of the game if they depend on anything else, or on license checking (one simple example, Steam/Epic based servers)
To put an example of this, you can pirate Baldur's Gate 3 and still log in with a Larian account, connect the Twitch integration and even setup a multiplayer campaign like it's nothing.
There are Unity related DLLs that take the role of the telemetry, and thus, don't care about cracks (in fact, Unity have said that the developer should contact them to avoid getting charged by piracy, meaning that those DO count)
Yeah that makes sense for how it works now, but I imagine if they plan to monetize installs they'd also make the telemetry required for all game functionality. That assumes they actually cared about the data and didn't plan to just make it all up and charge whatever they want.
Do you boycott unitygames now?
Who's boycotting unity games? This is just spreading awareness of what developers are affected.
Then I misunderstood you. How does that impact your library?
Around 20% of the games in my library use unity, some of them being my all-time favorites
One of the biggest games I can think of on Unity is Rust, and Facepunch has shown that they don't really give two fucks about switching engines. Unreal doesn't really have fairer pricing, but it's way simpler so they're gonna lose a lot of business to them
Rust currently has a 30-day average player count of just under 75k.
My current favorite (Rimworld) has one of 16k.
That's still a lot of unhappy gamers.
Can prospective developers use engines like Id Tech 3 or Unreal 2 commercially without paying?
Id Tech 3 is GPLv2, so for that one, yes. I'm not aware of similar being true for Unreal Engine 2, so I'd assume, no.
But if you're just generally looking for an engine that won't bite you, Godot is a better choice.
@mossy_capivara
I'm making sure to install my favorites before the end of the year
Good rule of thumb
You also have to run them and let unity engine phone home
Is it possible to add a firewall rule to block it?
@basxto
I'm not entirely sure that that's how it works, cause if it is my GOG copy of hollow knight has quite a lot more DRM than is normally accepted of that platform by their users
Well it sounds a lot like they’ll track it with the engine and then send bills to the developer. That’s also not DRM if they collect usage data.
How is an install defined?
An install is defined as the installation and initialization of a project on an end user’s device.
How is Unity collecting the number of installs?
We leverage our own proprietary data model and will provide estimates of the number of times the runtime is distributed for a given project – this estimate will cover an invoice for all platforms.
What a cluster. I feel for devs who are in a bad spot here thanks to yet more corporate greed.
I hope that one positive that stems from this is less trust in corporate solutions, since ultimately they are always beholden to profit -- unlike things like Godot, that now also hopefully get the support they deserve.
Oh good, so over half my Steam library
I feel for them because i switch games all the time on my deck, even with a 1tb sdcard on top of the 512gb, you have to remove games and install games all the time. I'm not going to feel guilty about this, they are my games, i paid for them and will install and uninstall as i see fit. Not out of malice, but because this is expected behavior. I imagine there are going to be a lot of lawsuits over this, and more than a few bankruptcies. They also can't remove games you've already paid for, so this is going to get interesting.
A lot of Nintendo and Pokemon games are on Unity, including Pokemon Go. Sony also has plenty of games on Unity
I predict we're going to see a slaughter - That's two of the big three console manufacturers. They ain't going to let Unity screw them over
But by the same token I also wouldn't put it past Nintendo and Sony to make backroom deals with Unity. And bonus if it screws over the competition.
@Thorned_Rose @mossy_capivara @BigDaddySlim @FreeBooteR69 @Icalasari one of them should just buy out unity.
And do what with it? Embrace, Extend, and then Extinguish it nd screw people over even more?
Unity made it clear that reinstalling on the same device doesn’t count. Though installing on multiple devices counts since they don’t track who installed it.
Did they clarify how they track "the same device"? If I replace my SSD, is that's new device? Gpu? Motherboard? Cpu? Get more ram? Reinstall the OS?
And even then, I usually install on 2-3 different devices. And what happens when 10 years down the road I want to okay it again and install it on 2 more devices?
@basxto
Interesting to see how they determine what a new "device" is, and how they record that. The EU will definitely have views.
@FreeBooteR69
https://unity.com/pricing-updates#unity-runtime-fee
They likely don’t track identities because that would be personal information, which is what GDPR protects.
@basxto I appreciate you running point for Unity on this, but "from various sources collected in compliance with all privacy laws" says nothing.
Easy enough to wait and see how they do phone home, and with what data they send back though.
Their posts sounded a lot like they already collected that data based their pricing on that. They are desperate to become profitable, I don’t think they themselves thought this was the best idea.
I would like to see godot rise.
Yeah, I feel really bad for the devs. Some of my favorite games are being affected
Nebulous is still in early access and it's a 3 man team. This will effectively end an incredible game before it can fulfill it's early access.
I hope John Riccitiello has chronic pain for the rest of his life. No one should be able to unilaterally fuck over so many people.
Same for Valheim
EA 101
You're coming after my Rimworld?! BITCH IS YOU CRAZY?!
https://steamdb.info/tech/Engine/Unity/
Isn't papers please using Haxeflixel?
It seems they switched from Haxe/OpenFL to Haxe/Unity in march
Yikes, there goes more of my library
@mossy_capivara @uuhhhhmmmm Yeah, I don't think those games and the developers behind them are at fault for Unity's bullshit.
Just block Unity's telemetry call by redirecting the URLs to 127.0.0.1 on your hosts file and done
Wouldn't unity just block the games from running if they don't connect? I guess you could crack the games, then maybe we'll have some weird future where devs encourage players to crack their games..
@Nemoder Cracking the games doesn't do shit in this matter. It'd block the online functions of the game if they depend on anything else, or on license checking (one simple example, Steam/Epic based servers)
To put an example of this, you can pirate Baldur's Gate 3 and still log in with a Larian account, connect the Twitch integration and even setup a multiplayer campaign like it's nothing.
There are Unity related DLLs that take the role of the telemetry, and thus, don't care about cracks (in fact, Unity have said that the developer should contact them to avoid getting charged by piracy, meaning that those DO count)
Yeah that makes sense for how it works now, but I imagine if they plan to monetize installs they'd also make the telemetry required for all game functionality. That assumes they actually cared about the data and didn't plan to just make it all up and charge whatever they want.
Do you boycott unitygames now?
Who's boycotting unity games? This is just spreading awareness of what developers are affected.
Then I misunderstood you. How does that impact your library?
Around 20% of the games in my library use unity, some of them being my all-time favorites
@basxto @mossy_capivara what would be the point..
One of the biggest games I can think of on Unity is Rust, and Facepunch has shown that they don't really give two fucks about switching engines. Unreal doesn't really have fairer pricing, but it's way simpler so they're gonna lose a lot of business to them
Rust currently has a 30-day average player count of just under 75k.
My current favorite (Rimworld) has one of 16k.
That's still a lot of unhappy gamers.
Can prospective developers use engines like Id Tech 3 or Unreal 2 commercially without paying?
Id Tech 3 is GPLv2, so for that one, yes. I'm not aware of similar being true for Unreal Engine 2, so I'd assume, no.
But if you're just generally looking for an engine that won't bite you, Godot is a better choice.
@mossy_capivara
I'm making sure to install my favorites before the end of the year
Good rule of thumb
You also have to run them and let unity engine phone home
Is it possible to add a firewall rule to block it?
@basxto
I'm not entirely sure that that's how it works, cause if it is my GOG copy of hollow knight has quite a lot more DRM than is normally accepted of that platform by their users
Well it sounds a lot like they’ll track it with the engine and then send bills to the developer. That’s also not DRM if they collect usage data.
https://unity.com/pricing-updates#unity-runtime-fee
I'm not up-to-date. What's the thing with Unity right now?
CEO might get in trouble with the SEC and FTC but that's still left to be seen