I am so sad that the mass protests had no effect. Poor Iranian people, especially women. What can anyone do to free them?
Conservatism is a global plague. Pacifism has never worked to cure this disease. Until the normal people rise up and do the horrific dirty work needed to erase this disease, it will continue to infect and kill.
The cure is not clean, but history has proven that conservatism is a fatal disease when left untreated.
The protests weren't peaceful. They were riotous. It didn't work, unfortunately.
I'm aware. And I am heart-broken. The violence, unfortunately, must involve not stopping until the conservatives no longer exist in any position of power. Extreme violence with a lack of mercy may be required. I don't think the Iranian people really have that in them. I hope I am proven wrong some day. This government was foisted upon them by us. This conservative government was not entirely the people's fault in this case.
For the rest of us, wherever the conservative disease persists, the natural result will always be brutal oppression of the vulnerable. Always. A cure must be administered long before the disease becomes this advanced.
They didn't work because they weren't fighting Islam they were fighting a more extreme version of it. Diet Islam vs Real Islam = Real Islam winning.
Successful revolutions it is trivial to name Atheist/Diest leaders.
If the cure for violence is more violence, are you really solving anything?
I mean yes.
Fair enough, violence away and we'll see how it plays out.
The ones that lose don’t ever argue. In fact, everyone alive today is the product of one group violently defeating the other. It sucks, but the person that doesn’t fight back doesn’t survive to future generations while the bullies proliferate.
I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist -- if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da'wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or "not real muslims."
it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a "real muslim" is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with "god," that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don't believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that's what you meant. That's... uh... how religions work in general? Like yeah if that's the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you're willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
That's true.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn't like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don't know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you'd be very clearly missing the point.
Start by protesting religion in your own country. Religion is bad everywhere. If some crazy groups want to believe in fairies, that's ok, just do it in your home and don't bring it out of there.
Publicly putting groups in your cross hairs tends to motivate said group.
Motivates said group to what?
Whatever they perceive as defensive measures. Rallying against those they are threatened by, recruiting, doubling down on their commitment and beliefs.
Then the government must take stricter measurements against said groups. Lets see who lose at the end.
What can anyone do to free them?
Arm them.
How do you get the arms to them?
Well step 1 should not be selling drugs in Latin America. We already tried that.
I think they had a very large effect, hence this pathetic pushback from the govt.
What can anyone do to free them?
The problem is religion. The best way to deconvert people is to show them that you can function without skydaddy. Allah (as a concept) has always been a narcissist, you are nothing without it.
Me personally if I was given the task I would move billions into generating content showing people of Iranian background living normal lives with diet-Islam to no-Islam. From movies and TV, to hiring Instagramers. An ocean of content being pumped into there every year.
I think the problem is the US-installed dictatorship, but I could be wrong Idk.
Absolutely. It was space vegan socialism humanist utopian paradise prior to 1953. Such a fine year 1953, my parents wouldn't be born for a decade and they are grandparents now. That was the also the moment Islam developed all of its problems, you see there was no slaves, or gender oppression, or bigotry, or war, or dictatorships for 1300 years. Nope just utter paradise for 13 centuries.
Why is the standard a perfect society instead of societies from the same time period?
skydaddy I Lollled a bit 🤣🤣 🤣
Thanks, wish I could claim to have coined the term. Such an improvement over "heavenly father".
I am so sad that the mass protests had no effect. Poor Iranian people, especially women. What can anyone do to free them?
Conservatism is a global plague. Pacifism has never worked to cure this disease. Until the normal people rise up and do the horrific dirty work needed to erase this disease, it will continue to infect and kill.
The cure is not clean, but history has proven that conservatism is a fatal disease when left untreated.
The protests weren't peaceful. They were riotous. It didn't work, unfortunately.
I'm aware. And I am heart-broken. The violence, unfortunately, must involve not stopping until the conservatives no longer exist in any position of power. Extreme violence with a lack of mercy may be required. I don't think the Iranian people really have that in them. I hope I am proven wrong some day. This government was foisted upon them by us. This conservative government was not entirely the people's fault in this case.
For the rest of us, wherever the conservative disease persists, the natural result will always be brutal oppression of the vulnerable. Always. A cure must be administered long before the disease becomes this advanced.
They didn't work because they weren't fighting Islam they were fighting a more extreme version of it. Diet Islam vs Real Islam = Real Islam winning.
Successful revolutions it is trivial to name Atheist/Diest leaders.
If the cure for violence is more violence, are you really solving anything?
I mean yes.
Fair enough, violence away and we'll see how it plays out.
The ones that lose don’t ever argue. In fact, everyone alive today is the product of one group violently defeating the other. It sucks, but the person that doesn’t fight back doesn’t survive to future generations while the bullies proliferate.
Tit for Tat seems the way to go https://youtu.be/BOvAbjfJ0x0?si=wbrd1YByz5DJkX43
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/BOvAbjfJ0x0?si=wbrd1YByz5DJkX43
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
They say those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Maybe they should also say those who know history will choose to repeat it.
I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist -- if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da'wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or "not real muslims."
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a "real muslim" is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with "god," that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don't believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that's what you meant. That's... uh... how religions work in general? Like yeah if that's the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you're willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
That's true.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn't like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don't know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you'd be very clearly missing the point.
Start by protesting religion in your own country. Religion is bad everywhere. If some crazy groups want to believe in fairies, that's ok, just do it in your home and don't bring it out of there.
Publicly putting groups in your cross hairs tends to motivate said group.
Motivates said group to what?
Whatever they perceive as defensive measures. Rallying against those they are threatened by, recruiting, doubling down on their commitment and beliefs.
Then the government must take stricter measurements against said groups. Lets see who lose at the end.
Arm them.
How do you get the arms to them?
Well step 1 should not be selling drugs in Latin America. We already tried that.
I think they had a very large effect, hence this pathetic pushback from the govt.
The problem is religion. The best way to deconvert people is to show them that you can function without skydaddy. Allah (as a concept) has always been a narcissist, you are nothing without it.
Me personally if I was given the task I would move billions into generating content showing people of Iranian background living normal lives with diet-Islam to no-Islam. From movies and TV, to hiring Instagramers. An ocean of content being pumped into there every year.
I think the problem is the US-installed dictatorship, but I could be wrong Idk.
Absolutely. It was space vegan socialism humanist utopian paradise prior to 1953. Such a fine year 1953, my parents wouldn't be born for a decade and they are grandparents now. That was the also the moment Islam developed all of its problems, you see there was no slaves, or gender oppression, or bigotry, or war, or dictatorships for 1300 years. Nope just utter paradise for 13 centuries.
Why is the standard a perfect society instead of societies from the same time period?
skydaddy I Lollled a bit 🤣🤣 🤣
Thanks, wish I could claim to have coined the term. Such an improvement over "heavenly father".