I've literally seen people post that they'd consider going electric if only it had an engine sound. Seriously, people who are old enough to have a drivers license want their car to go wroom wroom.
I get it. It's the same reason all cars have a steering wheel, despite it being the most dangerous part of the interior. Joysticks just don't give the same feel as when the captain steers the boat over the seven seas.
Steering wheels are enormous because that allows fine grain control, which you need at higher speeds. Switching lane at 70mph requires only very slight movement but turning the car around in a street you can go full lock.
A joystick would be fucking TERRIFYINGLY stupid lmao
Some vehicles use steering by wire, which uses motors for i/o. This allows for steering sensitivity adjustments based on speed or even* preference.
True, but sensitivity is only half the story - the direct feedback of a wheel cannot be overstated
You're right, but that should be part of the system.
There is virtually no noticeable lag.
The same technology is used by F1 vehicles, for example.
Not lag, physical pushback from the wheels
Fundamentally a joystick is a device that gives input in 2 dimensions, while steering a car is a 1 dimensional input.
But the wheels only have one degree of freedom...
I think that's what they're pointing out, that a joystick has too many dimensions.
Just like the wheels on the car.
Those are the ones
Joysticks in remote controllers for toy helicopters are usually forced into one direction, you can just restrict one of the two dimensions
So a thing worse than a wheel?
While a wheel is more familiar to me, I don't think it has many advantages over a speed modulated joystick, just make it as big as a hand so that you can have a hand for the joystick and lights and another for the gear stick, maybe put the control of the lights on the joystick if its more convenient
But cars move in an arc, the turning of the wheel is an extremely good analog for the cars movement. I really disagree and I submit that no one uses a joystick for sim racing, if it was better ppl would have latched on. You need the force feedback and control that comes with grasping a wheel and having the lever moment that a wheel gives. A joy stick has no mechanical advantage.
That's true but when I talk about a joystick, I was thinking more in the line of a big lever connected to where the turning wheel is, the problem I see is that the servos to give the analog feedback would have to be stronger. As there is no precedent, we can't see if it would stick
No it's not terribly stupid. Handicapped people already use other controllers without any issues.
A steering wheel is already electronically adjusted for speed. The servo will work just as well regardless of the controller device.
Along with lane assistance and other "self driving cars" it should be pretty evident that there is nothing dangerous about giving up the physical turny wheely kindergarten toy controller.
It's not just about precision, it's about feedback. Being directly connected with the steering linkage gives valuable feedback about the road and the front wheels - just because handicapped people have an alternative that they may use out of necessity does not mean it's a better solution.
In a fully autonomous car, sure perhaps a simple manual system as a backup makes sense but we aren't there yet. You are talking absolute nonsense, and I can only assume you haven't ever driven a vehicle.
I mean the wheel is definitely the best control mechanism for driving... whether or not it's dangerous, there's a reason the best sim racers use wheels and not controllers and it's that they provide vastly more control. So nice argument except it's all based on a false claim that joysticks are better lmaoooo
I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. Something like a playstation controller would be easy to learn for most people. People who play racing games seriously wouldn't use a wheel and pedals. It's just too slow.
But in a racing game the wheels can also twist from hard lock left to hard lock right in a millisecond, not sure that's possible or desired in real life
Rolling over is desired
People who play racing games seriously wouldn’t use a wheel and pedals. It’s just too slow.
That is not true at all, unless the racing game is NFS or something. The people seriously playing racing sims all use wheels and pedals.
Clearly, you don't frequent simracing communities.
Something like a playstation controller would be easy to learn for most people.
I mean, you can steer a submarine with it, am I right?
I was extraordinarily glad to have a wheel when my power steering failed and found myself having to turn the car using the strength of my arms and the mechanical leverage of the wheel. A joystick would've made the vehicle literally impossible to steer.
It'd have to be a long joystick.
thats what she said
I'll just leave this here. In short: a guy wrote a physics engine to simulate any combustion engine, and then further got it working with an electric motor so electric motors can use a simulated vroom vroom
I've literally seen people post that they'd consider going electric if only it had an engine sound.
In many regions now it's actually mandated that EVs make additional noise when moving at low speeds (less than 40km/h or so). There were concerns that quiet vehicles would have more pedestrian accidents.
There actually is an EV with engine sounds and a "manual transmission" from Toyota. According to ArsTechnica, it's supposed to be pretty good:
I've literally seen people post that they'd consider going electric if only it had an engine sound. Seriously, people who are old enough to have a drivers license want their car to go wroom wroom.
I get it. It's the same reason all cars have a steering wheel, despite it being the most dangerous part of the interior. Joysticks just don't give the same feel as when the captain steers the boat over the seven seas.
Wroom wroom, steer steer, wroooom, change gear while turning, push pedal, wroom wroom.
Steering wheels are enormous because that allows fine grain control, which you need at higher speeds. Switching lane at 70mph requires only very slight movement but turning the car around in a street you can go full lock.
A joystick would be fucking TERRIFYINGLY stupid lmao
Some vehicles use steering by wire, which uses motors for i/o. This allows for steering sensitivity adjustments based on speed or even* preference.
True, but sensitivity is only half the story - the direct feedback of a wheel cannot be overstated
You're right, but that should be part of the system.
There is virtually no noticeable lag.
The same technology is used by F1 vehicles, for example.
Not lag, physical pushback from the wheels
Fundamentally a joystick is a device that gives input in 2 dimensions, while steering a car is a 1 dimensional input.
But the wheels only have one degree of freedom...
I think that's what they're pointing out, that a joystick has too many dimensions.
Just like the wheels on the car.
Those are the ones
Joysticks in remote controllers for toy helicopters are usually forced into one direction, you can just restrict one of the two dimensions
So a thing worse than a wheel?
While a wheel is more familiar to me, I don't think it has many advantages over a speed modulated joystick, just make it as big as a hand so that you can have a hand for the joystick and lights and another for the gear stick, maybe put the control of the lights on the joystick if its more convenient
But cars move in an arc, the turning of the wheel is an extremely good analog for the cars movement. I really disagree and I submit that no one uses a joystick for sim racing, if it was better ppl would have latched on. You need the force feedback and control that comes with grasping a wheel and having the lever moment that a wheel gives. A joy stick has no mechanical advantage.
That's true but when I talk about a joystick, I was thinking more in the line of a big lever connected to where the turning wheel is, the problem I see is that the servos to give the analog feedback would have to be stronger. As there is no precedent, we can't see if it would stick
No it's not terribly stupid. Handicapped people already use other controllers without any issues.
A steering wheel is already electronically adjusted for speed. The servo will work just as well regardless of the controller device.
Along with lane assistance and other "self driving cars" it should be pretty evident that there is nothing dangerous about giving up the physical turny wheely kindergarten toy controller.
It's not just about precision, it's about feedback. Being directly connected with the steering linkage gives valuable feedback about the road and the front wheels - just because handicapped people have an alternative that they may use out of necessity does not mean it's a better solution.
In a fully autonomous car, sure perhaps a simple manual system as a backup makes sense but we aren't there yet. You are talking absolute nonsense, and I can only assume you haven't ever driven a vehicle.
I mean the wheel is definitely the best control mechanism for driving... whether or not it's dangerous, there's a reason the best sim racers use wheels and not controllers and it's that they provide vastly more control. So nice argument except it's all based on a false claim that joysticks are better lmaoooo
I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. Something like a playstation controller would be easy to learn for most people. People who play racing games seriously wouldn't use a wheel and pedals. It's just too slow.
But in a racing game the wheels can also twist from hard lock left to hard lock right in a millisecond, not sure that's possible or desired in real life
Rolling over is desired
That is not true at all, unless the racing game is NFS or something. The people seriously playing racing sims all use wheels and pedals.
Clearly, you don't frequent simracing communities.
I mean, you can steer a submarine with it, am I right?
I was extraordinarily glad to have a wheel when my power steering failed and found myself having to turn the car using the strength of my arms and the mechanical leverage of the wheel. A joystick would've made the vehicle literally impossible to steer.
It'd have to be a long joystick.
thats what she said
I'll just leave this here. In short: a guy wrote a physics engine to simulate any combustion engine, and then further got it working with an electric motor so electric motors can use a simulated vroom vroom
https://youtu.be/4U41OxHiqI8
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/4U41OxHiqI8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
In many regions now it's actually mandated that EVs make additional noise when moving at low speeds (less than 40km/h or so). There were concerns that quiet vehicles would have more pedestrian accidents.
There actually is an EV with engine sounds and a "manual transmission" from Toyota. According to ArsTechnica, it's supposed to be pretty good:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/
Yeah but that 40 year old with a 4k computer, 90 series card, more lighting than fast and the furious, surrounded by 10k of plastic figures is 👌 Chad.