wouldnt weight slightly fluctuate with moisture content?
yeah. 8g is a tiny weight difference here and could easily be accounted-for due to humidity with pasta. it's about the weight of 3-4 strands of that pasta
Could also just be losing a strand or two in packaging. It happens. That's why they're allowed some wiggle room on the packaging weight, and 8 grams is a pretty reasonable margin of error for a product like this.
Shrinkflation is definitely a thing, but this isn't a good example.
The same package in Germany is 500g, so maybe there is an element of shrinkflation as well.
It's also why the target is 410 was of 400 I'd imagine .
Idk about that. When I worked in a factory we always measured 510 g into our 500 g packages in order to avoid this happening. You're getting ripped off and making excuses for it.
So they package it wet? If the weight went down it means the pasta was wetter at time of boxing.
not wet, but probably not nearly as dry, per se. also, fluctuations in temperature (specifically, mass of air in the packaging), as well as calibration issues on the devices- if you use two devices to measure... you'll always get slightly off measurements.
However, I would sooner blame the scale itself as it doesn’t look like a scientific scale. So it’s likely not calibrated and will drift over time. Plenty of things could explain an 8g difference as measured by the average joe.
If it weren't obscenely expensive to do so, it would make sense for all scales to be calibrated to a NIST traceable standard, with periodic recalibrations at preset intervals.
Most kitchen scales could be easily calibrated with a measuring cup and water if they really wanted to do this. Just have a few included cups for 25,50,100ml of water and then fill them on the scale and tell it what the volume is.
That will easily get you within a gram of error for most common food weights.
If I'm reading table 2-9 right this package would be allowed to be under by 28.3g
Yeah that seems to be how it reads.
Weird that heavier packages are allowed a smaller tolerance ? Like a 198g package can be 28g under, but in the last row anything over 4.5kg needs to vary by less than 1%
yeah, but that doesnt mean much. the hoover damn is still drying.
The Hoover Dam concrete would cure in 125 years by conventional or natural methods. Crews, however, used some innovative engineering methods to hasten the process.
Nearly 600 miles of steel pipes woven through the concrete blocks significantly reduced the chemical heat from the setting for the concrete. Crews relied on 1,000-pound blocks of ice produced daily at the site’s ammonia-refrigeration plant.
Fun fact, concrete actually never stops curing, so I don’t know why they claim they could speed it up. Concrete has to set, dry and cure. You can speed up the first two, but not the last. You can make it reach design spec in say 7 days instead of 28, but it never stops curing.
Opinion: If it never stops curing, then maybe we should stop using that term.
What other term would we use? Lost of items never fully “cure” I’m struggling to think of something that does. Paint doesn’t, nail polish doesn’t.
It’s why it has to dry and set first. Concrete is completely usable after it’s set, it just gets stronger as it cures.
Why do you think paint says not to wash the wall for a month after, the paint still has to cure after drying and setting.
I'm saying, come up with another term.
Or you just didn’t know what the term meant and assumed and now for some odd reason want multiple industries to change what they’ve used for decades….?
Sure they’ll get right on that, or you could read a dictionary, there’s that option too.
Or we could stop pedantic arguments like this by having a separate name for the two similar but different chemical reactions.
…. Cure and set, I literally just explained that to you…. Yet you still want cure changed?
And for what it’s worth, I gave a fun fact, and you started being the “pedantic” one after that since you misunderstood, so go look in a mirror? lmfao.
And you were the one to get your feathers ruffled by my opinion that you could have just left alone.
So pedant, shall we continue?
…. Your opinion was
If it never stops curing, then maybe we should stop using that term.
So I explained that’s why we use “set” and now apparently I’m pedantic for pointing out we have those terms and have zero need to do that. That ruffled your feathers.
When you see “Net weight” or a symbol that looks like a big minuscule “e”, it means that the package weight doesn’t count.
I don't see anything like that in OP's picture.
8 grams? I doubt very much a cardboard box only weighs 8 grams.
You’re correct
can I see a pic out the box with it above weight stated?
I had to explain to my kids the other day how you don’t ever wish death on anyone. I was just going to ask if OP lives somewhere dry, because that would explain why they’re seeing this with so many foods.
People might be wondering wtf there’s no moisture in dry pasta. But there is: it will absorb moisture content from the surrounding atmosphere.
I had to learn about this effect because of woodworking. Wood absorbs enough moisture to appreciably change in size over the seasons, to the point where your whole table can crack in half if it’s built the wrong way.
If you want to get technical, aren't grams a measure of mass, not weight, so a kitchen scale needs to assume a value for gravity's acceleration to tell you grams, which could be slightly off depending where you are on earth?
I thought that you were on to something and did a quick google search: the variation is apparently only 0.5%. And a variation that big is only found when comparing a measurement on the poles (heavier) vs the equator (lighter) and I think it unlikely that this pasta was made on Antarctica. So nope, it's not the reason, they really do owe the op 2 grams of pasta.
Volume is not mass, and neither of them is weight. A gram is strictly speaking a measure of mass, and we just consider it to be a unit of weight in casual terms because the only frame of reference the vast majority of us have has reasonably constant gravity so we conflate mass and weight. That you can sort of use grams to measure volume is literally only because the density of common stuff (especially water) is close enough for most purposes. It's kinda like measuring a distance in units of time so long as the method of travel is known. I can say "an hour's walk" and I'm not really measuring distance there but you know roughly how far I mean
exactly, youre technically correct, but functionally irrelevant in this context
Yeah what about the other one, like drops on a cold beer?
I think its a fair question from a certain perspective.
However, the law requires that the package contents contain at least as much as stated. If humidity is an issue, it's up to the manufacturer to factor that in. Besides, this is dry pasta my friend.
I also bought salami. It was 13 g short. It's produced in the plant 4km from me.
There are no excuses to short the customer and it is illegal.
It is not illegal to sell a single container under the listed net weight.
The net weight must not be under the average weight of a sample of packages. There's a whole set of rules for maximum allowable variance and for packages under a pound, it's a little more than 7 grams.
Your scale is almost certainly not accurate enough to tell the difference a few tenths of a gram would make.
ha, define dry (youll need to be precise). how long in the atmosphere is a packaged product warrantied to hold its weight? just curious
No you're not curious lol You're doing textbook sea lioning
Go find someone else to mildly anmoy
ha, ok. i thought we were having a conversation. have fun with your mild anger! byeE!
And that's literally how we got the bakers dozen.
If your dozen of baked goods wasn't above a threshold you would be harshly punished. So bakers would give an extra so there's no way they would get in trouble.
So interesting. I always thought the bakers dozen came from the fact that tue baker would make 13 so they had one for themselves
Why are you getting downvoted? Why is Lemmy defending rich corporations and not consumers??
You opened dry pasta in a dry room and got less than the advertised amount. If there’s residual moisture in the factory that evaporates, that is their problem, not ours. Yes it’s a small variation, but that reasoning works both ways: they should include a few extra strands to make sure the consumer gets the right amount.
wouldnt weight slightly fluctuate with moisture content?
yeah. 8g is a tiny weight difference here and could easily be accounted-for due to humidity with pasta. it's about the weight of 3-4 strands of that pasta
Could also just be losing a strand or two in packaging. It happens. That's why they're allowed some wiggle room on the packaging weight, and 8 grams is a pretty reasonable margin of error for a product like this.
Shrinkflation is definitely a thing, but this isn't a good example.
The same package in Germany is 500g, so maybe there is an element of shrinkflation as well.
It's also why the target is 410 was of 400 I'd imagine .
Idk about that. When I worked in a factory we always measured 510 g into our 500 g packages in order to avoid this happening. You're getting ripped off and making excuses for it.
So they package it wet? If the weight went down it means the pasta was wetter at time of boxing.
not wet, but probably not nearly as dry, per se. also, fluctuations in temperature (specifically, mass of air in the packaging), as well as calibration issues on the devices- if you use two devices to measure... you'll always get slightly off measurements.
It’s far more likely that this is just weight variation which is allowable per the Food Safety and Inspection Service
However, I would sooner blame the scale itself as it doesn’t look like a scientific scale. So it’s likely not calibrated and will drift over time. Plenty of things could explain an 8g difference as measured by the average joe.
If it weren't obscenely expensive to do so, it would make sense for all scales to be calibrated to a NIST traceable standard, with periodic recalibrations at preset intervals.
Most kitchen scales could be easily calibrated with a measuring cup and water if they really wanted to do this. Just have a few included cups for 25,50,100ml of water and then fill them on the scale and tell it what the volume is.
That will easily get you within a gram of error for most common food weights.
If I'm reading table 2-9 right this package would be allowed to be under by 28.3g
Yeah that seems to be how it reads.
Weird that heavier packages are allowed a smaller tolerance ? Like a 198g package can be 28g under, but in the last row anything over 4.5kg needs to vary by less than 1%
yeah, but that doesnt mean much. the hoover damn is still drying.
Would have doesn't mean is. Source
Fun fact, concrete actually never stops curing, so I don’t know why they claim they could speed it up. Concrete has to set, dry and cure. You can speed up the first two, but not the last. You can make it reach design spec in say 7 days instead of 28, but it never stops curing.
Opinion: If it never stops curing, then maybe we should stop using that term.
What other term would we use? Lost of items never fully “cure” I’m struggling to think of something that does. Paint doesn’t, nail polish doesn’t.
It’s why it has to dry and set first. Concrete is completely usable after it’s set, it just gets stronger as it cures.
Why do you think paint says not to wash the wall for a month after, the paint still has to cure after drying and setting.
I'm saying, come up with another term.
Or you just didn’t know what the term meant and assumed and now for some odd reason want multiple industries to change what they’ve used for decades….?
Sure they’ll get right on that, or you could read a dictionary, there’s that option too.
Or we could stop pedantic arguments like this by having a separate name for the two similar but different chemical reactions.
…. Cure and set, I literally just explained that to you…. Yet you still want cure changed?
And for what it’s worth, I gave a fun fact, and you started being the “pedantic” one after that since you misunderstood, so go look in a mirror? lmfao.
And you were the one to get your feathers ruffled by my opinion that you could have just left alone.
So pedant, shall we continue?
…. Your opinion was
So I explained that’s why we use “set” and now apparently I’m pedantic for pointing out we have those terms and have zero need to do that. That ruffled your feathers.
Imma just block you.
So is all the water it's holding back 😱
RH during packing 55%, RH in OPs house 25%
Just different conditions, even
histheir (sorry) neighbors house could have a different RH and different results.Also, could it be the weight with the box?
When you see “Net weight” or a symbol that looks like a big minuscule “e”, it means that the package weight doesn’t count.
I don't see anything like that in OP's picture.
8 grams? I doubt very much a cardboard box only weighs 8 grams.
You’re correct
can I see a pic out the box with it above weight stated?
I had to explain to my kids the other day how you don’t ever wish death on anyone. I was just going to ask if OP lives somewhere dry, because that would explain why they’re seeing this with so many foods.
People might be wondering wtf there’s no moisture in dry pasta. But there is: it will absorb moisture content from the surrounding atmosphere.
I had to learn about this effect because of woodworking. Wood absorbs enough moisture to appreciably change in size over the seasons, to the point where your whole table can crack in half if it’s built the wrong way.
If you want to get technical, aren't grams a measure of mass, not weight, so a kitchen scale needs to assume a value for gravity's acceleration to tell you grams, which could be slightly off depending where you are on earth?
I thought that you were on to something and did a quick google search: the variation is apparently only 0.5%. And a variation that big is only found when comparing a measurement on the poles (heavier) vs the equator (lighter) and I think it unlikely that this pasta was made on Antarctica. So nope, it's not the reason, they really do owe the op 2 grams of pasta.
here ya go
tldr; why not both
Volume is not mass, and neither of them is weight. A gram is strictly speaking a measure of mass, and we just consider it to be a unit of weight in casual terms because the only frame of reference the vast majority of us have has reasonably constant gravity so we conflate mass and weight. That you can sort of use grams to measure volume is literally only because the density of common stuff (especially water) is close enough for most purposes. It's kinda like measuring a distance in units of time so long as the method of travel is known. I can say "an hour's walk" and I'm not really measuring distance there but you know roughly how far I mean
exactly, youre technically correct, but functionally irrelevant in this context
Yeah what about the other one, like drops on a cold beer?
I think its a fair question from a certain perspective.
However, the law requires that the package contents contain at least as much as stated. If humidity is an issue, it's up to the manufacturer to factor that in. Besides, this is dry pasta my friend.
I also bought salami. It was 13 g short. It's produced in the plant 4km from me.
There are no excuses to short the customer and it is illegal.
It is not illegal to sell a single container under the listed net weight.
The net weight must not be under the average weight of a sample of packages. There's a whole set of rules for maximum allowable variance and for packages under a pound, it's a little more than 7 grams.
Your scale is almost certainly not accurate enough to tell the difference a few tenths of a gram would make.
ha, define dry (youll need to be precise). how long in the atmosphere is a packaged product warrantied to hold its weight? just curious
No you're not curious lol You're doing textbook sea lioning
Go find someone else to mildly anmoy
ha, ok. i thought we were having a conversation. have fun with your mild anger! byeE!
And that's literally how we got the bakers dozen.
If your dozen of baked goods wasn't above a threshold you would be harshly punished. So bakers would give an extra so there's no way they would get in trouble.
So interesting. I always thought the bakers dozen came from the fact that tue baker would make 13 so they had one for themselves
Why are you getting downvoted? Why is Lemmy defending rich corporations and not consumers??
You opened dry pasta in a dry room and got less than the advertised amount. If there’s residual moisture in the factory that evaporates, that is their problem, not ours. Yes it’s a small variation, but that reasoning works both ways: they should include a few extra strands to make sure the consumer gets the right amount.