I know you're not referring to hunting rifles, but it is very common to give those as gifts to teenagers when they are old enough to get a hunting license. In some places that's 12 years old.
My parents also made me take a course on gun safety tho....
And they wouldn't let me use it unless it was with them....
So this lady definitely still deserves her sentence. Also, no kid needs and AR or a pistol.
Some of that stuff you mentioned needs to be mandatory IMO. I'm talking about gun safety lessons for all firearm owners.
It's the pro-gun community that insists they shouldn't be. They'll literally send you death threats for trying.
Ok?
It's absolutely moronic that we need licenses to drive but not to own and operate firearms.
I just thought it was important to note why this kind of thing doesn't already exist.
Just say that the lessons will be given by the NRA at a price and they'd probably lose most of their institutional backing pretty quickly. Money talks to republicans.
Exactly. Only difference would be essentially making basic safety courses mandatory.
The NRA is already the largest gun safety education organization in the USA. Their hunter's safety education programs are basically ubiquitous across the USA wherever people go to get their first hunting license.
Gun safety should be a mandatory class in education. Probably a multi-stage class starting with an age appropriate class in Elementary school, a more advanced class in Middle school to demystify and take some of the taboo cool factor out, and again in High school. Range time should be incorporated in High school, and maybe Middle school. We all know abstinence only education doesn't work.
My dad is a gun collector, so I was around them my entire life, but gun safety was also part of my entire life. We understood what they were and what they could do. So if my friends ever said "can we see your dad's guns?" It was always "no."
That's good, and I can relate to your experience growing up respecting firearms, but children should simply not be trusted to have access.
There have been many experiments in which children find a weapon and the parents who claimed their children knew better were horrified to see them handle the staged weapon.
Children simply don't have the logical portion of the brain developed. Even in teenagers, their amygdala (emotionality, anger, fear response) is nearly fully developed, yet their prefrontal cortext (executive control, rational thinking, emotional regulation, thinking of future consequences) is still severely underdeveloped. [1]
In fact, the prefrontal cortext isn't fully developed until our mid 20s, and possibly a few years longer for those of us with ADHD. [2] This is why teenagers display heightened risk-taking, are bad at controlling their emotions, restraining themselves, and thinking about the consequences of their actions.
Under supervision is one thing, but unsupervised access to a firearm is a patently bad idea. With that said, I did have access to a firearm (.22) and I acted responsibly as a minor (only used it for target practice). But I absolutely should not have had access to it.
In some places that’s 12 years old.
Whyyy? Hunting is a dangerous sport that is 100% not required that utilizes lethal weaponry. If a parent wants to take their kids hunting, they should be 100% responsible for them including having the license and owning the firearms. 16 seems like the bare minimum to allow children to engage with weaponry, but probably older to own.
There's a huge difference between giving a child unrestricted access to a firearm, and taking them sport shooting in a controlled environment. I've helped with beginner shooting courses for kids in scouts. There is an adult with each kid, one round loaded at a time, etc. You can similarly control the environment hunting by using blinds, etc, where you oversee the use of the firearm, loading of round etc.
I'm not big into shooting, but from a safety perspective there are ways to hunt and sport shoot with kids in a very controlled way.
Keep in mind, a person earlier in this convo said some kids get one gifted when they get a hunting license, which can be as early as 12, so you're basically attempting to change the entire claim being made... Clearly, in many situations, kids ARE ending up with a firearm under their sole ownership.
Having a .22 under the Christmas tree and having unsupervised access to it are two very different things. I know plenty of people who got rifles for their younger children but keep them in a safe with their own guns until the kids are older.
Yes, and are those parents on trial for manslaughter? You guys are completely forgetting the context in which this is being asked. If they're retaining control until the kid is older... they're likely being responsible and would be found totally fine under any serious proposal.
The parents are on trial for manslaughter because they gave their kid a gun like you might give your kid an action figure, with zero restrictions or teaching about respect for life whatsoever. There is a right way to handle kid's access to guns and many wrong ways.
Yes, and you fucking morons keep saying that as if ANYONE is saying we'd want to take THOSE guns. You fucking idiots are using the context to get offended instead of using it to understand what is being asked for.
Stop being offended over something not even being asked for here. It's pathetic.
Calm down and stop using straw man arguments. The only one acting offended here is you.
Yes, because ypu morons keep acting as if I said, "yea, we should clearly restrict all guns from all children at all times."
Learn to fucking read before you all go on and on about responsible gun ownership. WE KNOW!! We're not talking about responsible gun owners. The entire topic has never been about responsible gun owners having any rights removed. "evaluated" does not mean, "take guns", ffs.
Why don't you learn to read?
Because I was actually fucking agreeing with you.
Yes, IMO these parents do need to be, as you put it, evaluated, so that we can tell apart the responsible tutors from the irresponsible asshats like the woman who got charged.
We have evaluation systems for firearms literally everywhere else in the world. Fuck, in the US, you have evaluation systems for cars but not fucking guns.
Being gifted a gun is not being given unrestricted access to that weapon. I was gifted a shotgun at 15 and I never saw it unless my dad was present. It stayed in his safe until we went shooting together. When I moved out and showed him my own safe was ready, I got it from him and that was that.
What I'm saying is you're complaining about something no one is asking for. No one has even mentioned doing anything negative towards people who responsibly teach their kids about guns.
I gave my kid a BB gun, but it stays in a safe. I also gave my son a pocket knife for camping that stays in my night stand unless we are camping.
You can give something to a kid without letting them have unsupervised access. I gave my kids steam decks, but limit their screen time.
I agree the original comment lacked specificity. You could gift a gun in a responsible or irresponsible way, and I've seen both.
Edit: and the comment about gifting a rifle also mentioned that in their personal situation they had to have a parent to use it.
Indeed, and that's exactly what they'd be evaluated on. Responsible gun ownership should be the only kind of ownership protected under the 2a. Responsible gun ownership should not include sole ownership by those that cannot even join the military.
Maaaybe under odd edge cases where a kid gets to be their own guardian, but eh.
I know you're not referring to hunting rifles, but it is very common to give those as gifts to teenagers when they are old enough to get a hunting license. In some places that's 12 years old.
My parents also made me take a course on gun safety tho....
And they wouldn't let me use it unless it was with them....
So this lady definitely still deserves her sentence. Also, no kid needs and AR or a pistol.
Some of that stuff you mentioned needs to be mandatory IMO. I'm talking about gun safety lessons for all firearm owners.
It's the pro-gun community that insists they shouldn't be. They'll literally send you death threats for trying.
Ok?
It's absolutely moronic that we need licenses to drive but not to own and operate firearms.
I just thought it was important to note why this kind of thing doesn't already exist.
Just say that the lessons will be given by the NRA at a price and they'd probably lose most of their institutional backing pretty quickly. Money talks to republicans.
https://www.nrainstructors.org/search.aspx
Exactly. Only difference would be essentially making basic safety courses mandatory.
The NRA is already the largest gun safety education organization in the USA. Their hunter's safety education programs are basically ubiquitous across the USA wherever people go to get their first hunting license.
Gun safety should be a mandatory class in education. Probably a multi-stage class starting with an age appropriate class in Elementary school, a more advanced class in Middle school to demystify and take some of the taboo cool factor out, and again in High school. Range time should be incorporated in High school, and maybe Middle school. We all know abstinence only education doesn't work.
My dad is a gun collector, so I was around them my entire life, but gun safety was also part of my entire life. We understood what they were and what they could do. So if my friends ever said "can we see your dad's guns?" It was always "no."
That's good, and I can relate to your experience growing up respecting firearms, but children should simply not be trusted to have access.
There have been many experiments in which children find a weapon and the parents who claimed their children knew better were horrified to see them handle the staged weapon.
Children simply don't have the logical portion of the brain developed. Even in teenagers, their amygdala (emotionality, anger, fear response) is nearly fully developed, yet their prefrontal cortext (executive control, rational thinking, emotional regulation, thinking of future consequences) is still severely underdeveloped. [1]
In fact, the prefrontal cortext isn't fully developed until our mid 20s, and possibly a few years longer for those of us with ADHD. [2] This is why teenagers display heightened risk-taking, are bad at controlling their emotions, restraining themselves, and thinking about the consequences of their actions.
Under supervision is one thing, but unsupervised access to a firearm is a patently bad idea. With that said, I did have access to a firearm (.22) and I acted responsibly as a minor (only used it for target practice). But I absolutely should not have had access to it.
Whyyy? Hunting is a dangerous sport that is 100% not required that utilizes lethal weaponry. If a parent wants to take their kids hunting, they should be 100% responsible for them including having the license and owning the firearms. 16 seems like the bare minimum to allow children to engage with weaponry, but probably older to own.
There's a huge difference between giving a child unrestricted access to a firearm, and taking them sport shooting in a controlled environment. I've helped with beginner shooting courses for kids in scouts. There is an adult with each kid, one round loaded at a time, etc. You can similarly control the environment hunting by using blinds, etc, where you oversee the use of the firearm, loading of round etc.
I'm not big into shooting, but from a safety perspective there are ways to hunt and sport shoot with kids in a very controlled way.
Keep in mind, a person earlier in this convo said some kids get one gifted when they get a hunting license, which can be as early as 12, so you're basically attempting to change the entire claim being made... Clearly, in many situations, kids ARE ending up with a firearm under their sole ownership.
Having a .22 under the Christmas tree and having unsupervised access to it are two very different things. I know plenty of people who got rifles for their younger children but keep them in a safe with their own guns until the kids are older.
Yes, and are those parents on trial for manslaughter? You guys are completely forgetting the context in which this is being asked. If they're retaining control until the kid is older... they're likely being responsible and would be found totally fine under any serious proposal.
The parents are on trial for manslaughter because they gave their kid a gun like you might give your kid an action figure, with zero restrictions or teaching about respect for life whatsoever. There is a right way to handle kid's access to guns and many wrong ways.
Yes, and you fucking morons keep saying that as if ANYONE is saying we'd want to take THOSE guns. You fucking idiots are using the context to get offended instead of using it to understand what is being asked for.
Stop being offended over something not even being asked for here. It's pathetic.
Calm down and stop using straw man arguments. The only one acting offended here is you.
Yes, because ypu morons keep acting as if I said, "yea, we should clearly restrict all guns from all children at all times."
Learn to fucking read before you all go on and on about responsible gun ownership. WE KNOW!! We're not talking about responsible gun owners. The entire topic has never been about responsible gun owners having any rights removed. "evaluated" does not mean, "take guns", ffs.
Why don't you learn to read?
Because I was actually fucking agreeing with you.
Yes, IMO these parents do need to be, as you put it, evaluated, so that we can tell apart the responsible tutors from the irresponsible asshats like the woman who got charged.
We have evaluation systems for firearms literally everywhere else in the world. Fuck, in the US, you have evaluation systems for cars but not fucking guns.
Being gifted a gun is not being given unrestricted access to that weapon. I was gifted a shotgun at 15 and I never saw it unless my dad was present. It stayed in his safe until we went shooting together. When I moved out and showed him my own safe was ready, I got it from him and that was that.
What I'm saying is you're complaining about something no one is asking for. No one has even mentioned doing anything negative towards people who responsibly teach their kids about guns.
I gave my kid a BB gun, but it stays in a safe. I also gave my son a pocket knife for camping that stays in my night stand unless we are camping.
You can give something to a kid without letting them have unsupervised access. I gave my kids steam decks, but limit their screen time.
I agree the original comment lacked specificity. You could gift a gun in a responsible or irresponsible way, and I've seen both.
Edit: and the comment about gifting a rifle also mentioned that in their personal situation they had to have a parent to use it.
Indeed, and that's exactly what they'd be evaluated on. Responsible gun ownership should be the only kind of ownership protected under the 2a. Responsible gun ownership should not include sole ownership by those that cannot even join the military.
Maaaybe under odd edge cases where a kid gets to be their own guardian, but eh.