They should regulate the weight of cars. There's no reason passenger vehicles should be as heavy as they are. For EVs they honestly shouldn't have as much range as they do. 150 miles and improved charging infrastructure, make charging easier for folks who park on the street, is a better way to go. Folks who need to drive more than that a day should have a hybrid or ICE vehicle. Ideally a small fuel efficient one. Folks who need pickups for work should be able to buy the small European versions or work vans.
150miles is no where close to enough range for people who travel regularly. In a 3 hour trip I can do 150 miles. Depending on weather, battery degrading, and elevation that trip now requires charging multiple times which just isn't acceptable. Let alone if you were trying to do a real road trip where you drive 1000+ miles, the amount of charge time is insane. And I want an EV for those road trips, extremely convenient for car camping.
250mi is a good number. Enough to do a lot of errands and medium trips in a day and charge overnight.
Bolt EV/EUV has that and it's a compact.
Better to charge higher registration fees by weight.
The whole highway infrastructure tax structure will need revision as electric vehicles not paying gas taxes become more popular. Or we could just built more public transportation.
Our Bolt EUV only gets around 140 for a standard charge. It's enough for our usual daily use cases, but there have been several nail biters when we started on a half charge because we forgot to charge over night.
That's whack. A 2023 euv I use gets 240?mi in the summer and maybe 190? in the winter. Both from 80% charge.
I can think of no better way to kill EV adoption than to intentionally make their usage less appealing than the alternative.
Folks who need a pickup truck for work should be required to file a permit request for pirchase of said truck.
Written by someone who owns a truck
Trucks haven't always been the fucking obnoxious beasts that they are now.
I'd love a truck... The size of a '93 ford ranger. I don't need or want a goddamn castle on wheels. I want a low vehicle, doesn't need two full rows of luxurious seats, with a box, with a footprint SMALLER than a fucking Nissan Altima. Yes, that is the '93 ford ranger.
The crime was artificially creating the false dichotomy.
~93~ 97 Ranger Splash with the side steps in yellow was my childhood dream to own. I have no problems with 1/4 ton trucks specially that size, but there is honestly no need for a 1/2 ton or larger truck, specially as big as they have them now.
Edit: there was no yellow ranger in '93
I don't know if I have an explicit issue with larger trucks for merely existing, and I don't mean to be the judge and jury for who does and doesn't need what amount of towing power for whatever they might need them for.
They're just obscene as a daily driver, though. Two luxurious rows of seats, massive box, giant towing capacity. Pick TWO.
If consumers had a viable option where they could get any 2 without needing all 3, I think they'd take it. Lack of diversity where automakers try and find manufacturing efficiency by limiting offerings such that trucks are everything for everyone is why they're designed for excess.
"Designed for excess" is the American way.
Yeah, I love my truck but i don't need it and it is selfish for me to keep using it imo.
I am hoping to get away with not having a car when it eventually dies but I'll be buying an EV or a Hybrid sedan if I really need a car then.
I regularly haul 800 lbs of wood heating pellets in the back of my Subaru Baja. That'll get me through somewhere between a week and half to almost three weeks of heating, depending on how cold the weather is. Wash, rinse, repeat all winter long.
Then there's DYI work I'm doing on the house. I usually use my girlfriend's Tacoma for that. Plywood, lumber, gravel, and cement mix. All of it needs to be hauled, and delivery is prohibitively expensive.
None of that is required for my desk job work.
I could give up hauling the 19' sailboat, if need be, since that's a luxury. It'll make me an angry man come summer, though.
What's your plan on addressing my needs, or are you happy to let me hang?
Are you intentionally defending lifted trucks that never hop a curb, or is that just an accidental consequence of your flex?
Neither. Not flexing, either. Hell, if I was, I wouldn't be driving around a Baja. That model is the red-headed bastard child of the automotive world, catching grief from everyone.
Nah... just simple statements: I need to be able to get shit done outside of work, as reliably and inexpensively as I can. Find a way to sort out those folk who glam up their mall crawlers for whatever prestige is running through their empty heads and inflated egos, without hindering my ability to do what I need to do, and you'll have the support of me and folk like me.
This.
Basically, if you need a half or full ton truck for work? Cool, ask for the permit. Oh, is it just to drive to your office desk job? Get a smaller vehicle or ride the bus
How is that permit process going to allow me a permit to get the stuff done that I need to do, while weeding out all the folk driving around pavement princesses?
The plan is file for a permit.
If you get denied there's pickup trucks at the Uhaul store.
So you have no plan to differentiate on who gets a permit, and who doesn't? That leads to one of three situations:
Nobody gets a permit.
Everyone gets a permit.
Nobody gets a permit, except the friends and family of whoever's in charge of handing out permits.
Good luck with that.
I'm not the guy who made the original comment but my plan would be, show me your business license. And as I said before anyone in need of hauling without a business can go down to Uhaul. As far as towing goes, that's an engine/torque/frame issue. It doesn't need to be a huge vehicle. There are minivans and crossovers with a 7,500 lb towing capacity.
To add, if you're setup for towing then you can just use a trailer.
Brakes. You left out the important bit. My Baja will tow a lot more than it'll stop.
Your plan would have me up the creek without a truck, especially if the Baja gets lumped into the truck category on account of it having a bed. Judging from the blank "apply for a permit" plan, it probably would.
I've gone down that "Just rent a truck from UHaul." It stops being realistic when the local UHaul lot can't handle current demand, much less whatever happens after y'all have taken trucks out of everyone else's hands.
Take away my ability to keep my house heated, much less in good repair, and you'll take away my ability to house myself, my family, my pets. They're everything to me. Take everything away from a man, and see what happens. Then multiply that by every upstate, rural, blue collar man trying to get by... And see what happens to society. It ain't gonna be pretty.
Your truck is not "everything". You could easily haul that stuff with a trailer. And yes in a vehicle with competent brakes for it's rated towing capacity. It's not the government's fault if you're towing over capacity.
Also I highly doubt your home needs weekly DIY trips for years on end to remain functional. In fact, if that's true you may want to look at hiring a general contractor instead of doing diy.
Edit to add - as an example a Subaru outback with trailer would work just as well as your truck depending on how heavy your boat and trailer are. But also there's no reason a towing vehicle needs to be that large. Once the size is restricted you'll be able to get 5,000 lb towing in cars, as it's already a thing in Europe.
You're right, in that my truck is not everything. It's a significant point of failure to my ability to maintain my house and life. You can doubt all you want. Do the math: I'm burning 40-80 of wood pellets every day. That's an 800 lbs load every 10 to 20 days.
Your answer is to replace my Baja & Tacoma with an Outback and trailer. With the cost of everything rising, you want me to sell off my existing vehicles (with their value dropping, as nobody without a work permit can operate them), and replace them... Or hire out a general contractor for all the work I've been doing myself.
FYI: That Baja of mine is tow rated for 2,400 lbs.
Man, I'd love to live in whatever world you're dreaming up. It ain't the real one, that's for sure.
I don't want you to sell off anything. Nobody said current owners would be required to sell. That's unrealistic, unenforceable, and radical to the way similar legislation has been done in the past. Most likely when you went to buy a new vehicle you would be asked for your large vehicle permit. Then, without one you would be directed to tow capable smaller vehicles. And yeah the Baja is old. It's not rated for much. But in Europe you have SEAT Leons towing 3500 pounds. That's a hatchback if you don't want to go look up the car.
Just because the car companies in the US aren't offering it right now, does not mean it's not possible. They want to make money, not give you the most efficient vehicle.
And yeah if you only need a vehicle temporarily for a DIY project, then rental is a good option. If your house is going to fall apart without sustained DIY stuff over years then you absolutely need a contractor to create a comprehensive project to solve that problem rather than patch the last band-aid fix.
Your arguments just don't hold up and calling Europe a dream land isn't very nice. They do actually exist.
Have you ever been to Upstate NY? Had a friend or family spend any time at all up here? I'm thinking you should. That might shine a big spotlight on the differences in living here vs the UK.
Buddy I've lived in the middle of nowhere and in cities. I've lived in deserts and snow ridden mountains. I'm not unfamiliar with the issues inherent to location. And you should visit Scotland some time if you think the UK is flat and urbanized. Hell I've driven 2 tons of explosives, supplies, and people through the hills of northern Iraq with no roads. I am not the person you look to for inexperience here. When I say everything you do with that Tacoma is possible with a sedan and a trailer, I know what I'm talking about.
250mi is around the right target. This pops out when you do some math on reasonable travel distances, battery charge times, and padding for cold weather.
You don't want to use the first 20% or the last 20% of the battery, so you get down to 60% right there. This improves battery lifetime and also charges faster.
Lop off another 20% for cold weather.
That brings us to 120mi between stops, which is about 2 hours of highway driving between charges. You should be able to charge that in about 20 minutes, which is about right for using the bathroom, stretching your legs, and getting something to eat. If you want to go three hours, then 375mi is the right maximum.
None of this requires changes in battery tech or charging speed.
In short, there's not much need for cars over 400mi range. Use any further advancement in battery tech for chopping off weight, not making them go further.
It is my understanding that you don't fully charge your EV battery typically either. You charge it to 80% of it's capacity and that is your "100% charged" state, for battery longevity. So you are down to %40 of your theoretical range before cold weather and the batteries wearing out over time anyhow.
Right, that's accounted for above.
Gotcha, I misunderstood that part I guess!
Not to mention you need to account for battery degradation over time. A 10 year old EV isn't going to maintain the same discharge rate as a brand new EV of the same model and spec.
So far not much deg on any temperature controlled pack. More like 20+ years of good use.
The old Leafs degraded, but they weren't controlled.
They should regulate the weight of cars. There's no reason passenger vehicles should be as heavy as they are. For EVs they honestly shouldn't have as much range as they do. 150 miles and improved charging infrastructure, make charging easier for folks who park on the street, is a better way to go. Folks who need to drive more than that a day should have a hybrid or ICE vehicle. Ideally a small fuel efficient one. Folks who need pickups for work should be able to buy the small European versions or work vans.
150miles is no where close to enough range for people who travel regularly. In a 3 hour trip I can do 150 miles. Depending on weather, battery degrading, and elevation that trip now requires charging multiple times which just isn't acceptable. Let alone if you were trying to do a real road trip where you drive 1000+ miles, the amount of charge time is insane. And I want an EV for those road trips, extremely convenient for car camping.
250mi is a good number. Enough to do a lot of errands and medium trips in a day and charge overnight.
Bolt EV/EUV has that and it's a compact.
Better to charge higher registration fees by weight.
The whole highway infrastructure tax structure will need revision as electric vehicles not paying gas taxes become more popular. Or we could just built more public transportation.
Our Bolt EUV only gets around 140 for a standard charge. It's enough for our usual daily use cases, but there have been several nail biters when we started on a half charge because we forgot to charge over night.
That's whack. A 2023 euv I use gets 240?mi in the summer and maybe 190? in the winter. Both from 80% charge.
I can think of no better way to kill EV adoption than to intentionally make their usage less appealing than the alternative.
Folks who need a pickup truck for work should be required to file a permit request for pirchase of said truck.
Written by someone who owns a truck
Trucks haven't always been the fucking obnoxious beasts that they are now.
I'd love a truck... The size of a '93 ford ranger. I don't need or want a goddamn castle on wheels. I want a low vehicle, doesn't need two full rows of luxurious seats, with a box, with a footprint SMALLER than a fucking Nissan Altima. Yes, that is the '93 ford ranger.
The crime was artificially creating the false dichotomy.
~93~ 97 Ranger Splash with the side steps in yellow was my childhood dream to own. I have no problems with 1/4 ton trucks specially that size, but there is honestly no need for a 1/2 ton or larger truck, specially as big as they have them now.
Edit: there was no yellow ranger in '93
I don't know if I have an explicit issue with larger trucks for merely existing, and I don't mean to be the judge and jury for who does and doesn't need what amount of towing power for whatever they might need them for.
They're just obscene as a daily driver, though. Two luxurious rows of seats, massive box, giant towing capacity. Pick TWO.
If consumers had a viable option where they could get any 2 without needing all 3, I think they'd take it. Lack of diversity where automakers try and find manufacturing efficiency by limiting offerings such that trucks are everything for everyone is why they're designed for excess.
"Designed for excess" is the American way.
Yeah, I love my truck but i don't need it and it is selfish for me to keep using it imo.
I am hoping to get away with not having a car when it eventually dies but I'll be buying an EV or a Hybrid sedan if I really need a car then.
I regularly haul 800 lbs of wood heating pellets in the back of my Subaru Baja. That'll get me through somewhere between a week and half to almost three weeks of heating, depending on how cold the weather is. Wash, rinse, repeat all winter long.
Then there's DYI work I'm doing on the house. I usually use my girlfriend's Tacoma for that. Plywood, lumber, gravel, and cement mix. All of it needs to be hauled, and delivery is prohibitively expensive.
None of that is required for my desk job work.
I could give up hauling the 19' sailboat, if need be, since that's a luxury. It'll make me an angry man come summer, though.
What's your plan on addressing my needs, or are you happy to let me hang?
Are you intentionally defending lifted trucks that never hop a curb, or is that just an accidental consequence of your flex?
Neither. Not flexing, either. Hell, if I was, I wouldn't be driving around a Baja. That model is the red-headed bastard child of the automotive world, catching grief from everyone.
Nah... just simple statements: I need to be able to get shit done outside of work, as reliably and inexpensively as I can. Find a way to sort out those folk who glam up their mall crawlers for whatever prestige is running through their empty heads and inflated egos, without hindering my ability to do what I need to do, and you'll have the support of me and folk like me.
This.
Basically, if you need a half or full ton truck for work? Cool, ask for the permit. Oh, is it just to drive to your office desk job? Get a smaller vehicle or ride the bus
How is that permit process going to allow me a permit to get the stuff done that I need to do, while weeding out all the folk driving around pavement princesses?
The plan is file for a permit.
If you get denied there's pickup trucks at the Uhaul store.
So you have no plan to differentiate on who gets a permit, and who doesn't? That leads to one of three situations:
Good luck with that.
I'm not the guy who made the original comment but my plan would be, show me your business license. And as I said before anyone in need of hauling without a business can go down to Uhaul. As far as towing goes, that's an engine/torque/frame issue. It doesn't need to be a huge vehicle. There are minivans and crossovers with a 7,500 lb towing capacity.
To add, if you're setup for towing then you can just use a trailer.
Brakes. You left out the important bit. My Baja will tow a lot more than it'll stop.
Your plan would have me up the creek without a truck, especially if the Baja gets lumped into the truck category on account of it having a bed. Judging from the blank "apply for a permit" plan, it probably would.
I've gone down that "Just rent a truck from UHaul." It stops being realistic when the local UHaul lot can't handle current demand, much less whatever happens after y'all have taken trucks out of everyone else's hands.
Take away my ability to keep my house heated, much less in good repair, and you'll take away my ability to house myself, my family, my pets. They're everything to me. Take everything away from a man, and see what happens. Then multiply that by every upstate, rural, blue collar man trying to get by... And see what happens to society. It ain't gonna be pretty.
Your truck is not "everything". You could easily haul that stuff with a trailer. And yes in a vehicle with competent brakes for it's rated towing capacity. It's not the government's fault if you're towing over capacity.
Also I highly doubt your home needs weekly DIY trips for years on end to remain functional. In fact, if that's true you may want to look at hiring a general contractor instead of doing diy.
Edit to add - as an example a Subaru outback with trailer would work just as well as your truck depending on how heavy your boat and trailer are. But also there's no reason a towing vehicle needs to be that large. Once the size is restricted you'll be able to get 5,000 lb towing in cars, as it's already a thing in Europe.
You're right, in that my truck is not everything. It's a significant point of failure to my ability to maintain my house and life. You can doubt all you want. Do the math: I'm burning 40-80 of wood pellets every day. That's an 800 lbs load every 10 to 20 days.
Your answer is to replace my Baja & Tacoma with an Outback and trailer. With the cost of everything rising, you want me to sell off my existing vehicles (with their value dropping, as nobody without a work permit can operate them), and replace them... Or hire out a general contractor for all the work I've been doing myself.
FYI: That Baja of mine is tow rated for 2,400 lbs.
Man, I'd love to live in whatever world you're dreaming up. It ain't the real one, that's for sure.
I don't want you to sell off anything. Nobody said current owners would be required to sell. That's unrealistic, unenforceable, and radical to the way similar legislation has been done in the past. Most likely when you went to buy a new vehicle you would be asked for your large vehicle permit. Then, without one you would be directed to tow capable smaller vehicles. And yeah the Baja is old. It's not rated for much. But in Europe you have SEAT Leons towing 3500 pounds. That's a hatchback if you don't want to go look up the car.
Just because the car companies in the US aren't offering it right now, does not mean it's not possible. They want to make money, not give you the most efficient vehicle.
And yeah if you only need a vehicle temporarily for a DIY project, then rental is a good option. If your house is going to fall apart without sustained DIY stuff over years then you absolutely need a contractor to create a comprehensive project to solve that problem rather than patch the last band-aid fix.
Your arguments just don't hold up and calling Europe a dream land isn't very nice. They do actually exist.
Have you ever been to Upstate NY? Had a friend or family spend any time at all up here? I'm thinking you should. That might shine a big spotlight on the differences in living here vs the UK.
Buddy I've lived in the middle of nowhere and in cities. I've lived in deserts and snow ridden mountains. I'm not unfamiliar with the issues inherent to location. And you should visit Scotland some time if you think the UK is flat and urbanized. Hell I've driven 2 tons of explosives, supplies, and people through the hills of northern Iraq with no roads. I am not the person you look to for inexperience here. When I say everything you do with that Tacoma is possible with a sedan and a trailer, I know what I'm talking about.
Uh huh.
This conversation is over.
250mi is around the right target. This pops out when you do some math on reasonable travel distances, battery charge times, and padding for cold weather.
You don't want to use the first 20% or the last 20% of the battery, so you get down to 60% right there. This improves battery lifetime and also charges faster.
Lop off another 20% for cold weather.
That brings us to 120mi between stops, which is about 2 hours of highway driving between charges. You should be able to charge that in about 20 minutes, which is about right for using the bathroom, stretching your legs, and getting something to eat. If you want to go three hours, then 375mi is the right maximum.
None of this requires changes in battery tech or charging speed.
In short, there's not much need for cars over 400mi range. Use any further advancement in battery tech for chopping off weight, not making them go further.
It is my understanding that you don't fully charge your EV battery typically either. You charge it to 80% of it's capacity and that is your "100% charged" state, for battery longevity. So you are down to %40 of your theoretical range before cold weather and the batteries wearing out over time anyhow.
Right, that's accounted for above.
Gotcha, I misunderstood that part I guess!
Not to mention you need to account for battery degradation over time. A 10 year old EV isn't going to maintain the same discharge rate as a brand new EV of the same model and spec.
So far not much deg on any temperature controlled pack. More like 20+ years of good use.
The old Leafs degraded, but they weren't controlled.