What's with all the tankies recently?
If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.
EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don't vote for biden if there is a better candidate.
People are organizing the uncommitted campaign to get Biden to stop giving billions to support an active genocide
Uncommitted campaign is just a vote for Fuckface 45 in a trenchcoat.
Fuckface 45 is not running in the Democratic primary.
But he's going to win via the Spoiler Effect if people keep this third party shit up.
A vote against Biden is a vote for Fuckface 45.
Until we get rid of First Past the Post voting, at least.
the meme is about a primary election in which Democrats are running against Democrats. no one partaking in this movement is planning to vote 3rd party. you are making uninformed statements, shadow boxing with a situation that doesn’t exist.
And you honestly don't believe people aren't going to keep this mentality up in November?
the biden administration is currently complicit in genocide. maybe if it wants to survive it should consider not being complicit in genocide. 🐛
I see you're voting for Fuckface 45. At least we know, now.
Double negative there with the don't aren't, but to answer your question we believe that the people voting in DNC Primaries are going to vote DNC in the general. Anybody who doesn't probably isn't informed enough to be a part of the noncommitted movement to begin with.
You seem like a logical person. I'd like to circle back to the Uncommitted thesis that Biden is in support of genocide, if you will. Since this is the crux of the whole voting campaign.
If you would allow me to ask 4 questions about this whole Uncommitted campaign:
What action(s) is Joe Biden doing that is a DIRECT support of genocide?
What action(s) is Joe Biden actively NOT doing that is a direct support of genocide?
What action(s) should Joe Biden BEGIN to do to that does not support genocide?
What action(s) should Joe Biden STOP doing right now to avoid supporting genocide?
I ask these 4 questions, because right now, I'm not seeing much actual definition of actions that define the support of genocide, nor the quelling of genocidal support.
Should he be sending troops? ...talking? ...cyber warfare? ...sanctions? ...carpet bombing? ...ghosting? ...written threats? ...dehumanization? ...assassination?
These are all examples of actions. There are more things, of course. But right now, I'm not seeing any clarification - no specificity - just absolutist rhetoric from the Uncommitted.
And I'd like to know more.
Just one of very many examples, on December 29th, POTUS Biden circuimvented Congress by having his Secretary of Defence approve weapons sales to Israel without a vote in the senate, mainly artillery munitions and long range shells. For the Second Time that Month. Weapons used to murder innocents. Biden has used UN Veto Power multiple times now to shield Israel from consequences.
Send in Troops, mainly to distribute aid from the shoreline using the Navy's amphibious vehicles, and indirectly protect innocents as the Israelis are less likely to shell the hand that feeds them. Demand the removal of genocidal authoritarian Netanyahu for continued peaceful cooperation from the USA.
Immediate cutoff of all aid to Israel. Full Stop. Removal of the aid from the border bill, end to all Secretary of Defense dealings with them, and Censure of Israel in front of the UN. If Israel is smart they will realize they're surrounded by hornets nest and just lost their veil, so they'll clean up their act or suffer the same atrocities they submit others to.
Stop Vetoing UN Resolutions against Israel. Stop saying Israel has a right to "defend itself" from innocent women and children.
He should be sending in troops, too, honestly. The ICJ's Genocide Ruling justifies invasion to stop the atrocity without any consequence. Israel has failed so spectacularly that they need to be demilitarized and restructured much like Japan once was. The USA created this mess, it's only right that they foot the bill to fix it for the next 40 years. Do I expect that to happen? Fuck no, but it's what would be the most right.
And why should I be the one to educate your ignorant ass on the solutions? You don't think there are articles and scholars and pundits talking about these issues at length that instead you need to come bother me with your stupid ass questions? Fuck off.
Thank you.
So, the truncated version is for the US to go to war again.
You were educating me on things YOU (uncommitted campaign, et al) wanted. I can't know without asking, and my Google Fu wasn't providing specifics. No, I wasn't being a Sea Lion.
As for scholars and the like, it seems like perhaps this whole event is in "good" hands, since they literally know the ins and outs better than the average citizen.
What mentality?
Third party candidates are also not running in the Democratic primaries.
Ok. And? As do I.
But I also understand how voting 3rd party is a vote against Biden, and due to the Spoiler Effect, is a vote for Fuckface 45.
If you vote for Biden in the primary and not uncommitted or another candidate, you stand against Palestine, plain and simple. Why the fuck is people shutting up and falling in line so important to you when that means letting biden aid and allow genocide? Rhetorical question btw
Not even remotely lol. Like what? It's a primary, get a grip
I think most people here are all for that, but if Trump is president, it's going to get so much worse.
Voting in a two party system is a raw deal, but it's the only deal we have.
You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.
Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)
The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists.
I think most people here are all for that
Judging by the number of memes by both groups, I don't think Lemmy has reached any consensus. A lot of the anti-Biden stuff seems bot-like or a shill network but that might just be reflective of the intelligence of the average Trump enthusiast, who do exist here.
:/ Unionize and vote against fascism instead.
?? Unionize what ?? and this is actually a vote against fascism. Israel’s Zionist gov is very fascist and is committing active genocide against a people they view as 2nd class. This vote is getting the US government to use its outsized influence on Israel to end the Palestinian genocide.
The US primary election during an incumbent’s 2nd term reelection is the only place to safely vote like this on a national level in the US’s two party/first past the pole system. The incumbent is guaranteed to sweep, so people who care to enact a much needed end to genocide can vote to show their support for ending Palestinians being murdered.
(In the US, the term unionize is tied to worker groups acting as a collective bargaining unit and not tied to political movements)
I am very much pro palestine. I'm sorry I was not aware this was a primary, in that case voting against biden makes a lot more sense.
I meant unionize in the normal way, as you defined it. Unions are an excellent place to also organize protests etc. Unions are absolutely tied to political movements. Here in norway they are/were associated with the workers party, a social democratic party, however they (the party) have been drifting farther and farther towards the center over the years.
I've seen people discus the election and no one brought up that it was a primary, so I foolishly assumed it wasn't.
Ah! Yes this protest vote is symbolic and people will not make the same for the general (real). I understand your and many others’ great worry over the protest vote. No one sane and rational would call for this protest vote for the general election when the alternate (as many others in other countries are well aware, as are we here) is the demise of the US.
Unions have not been a significant force in the US for decades. They’re at least on the up and up recently as the cost of living has skyrocketed. Glad they’re strong there :) hope they won’t drift too wrong
It is a grim time in the US, thanks for your interest in us! We must prevail over fascism, we will try, and hopefully we can end the genocide in Palestine while we’re at it. Some people feel it’s “too much”, but they’re being killed rapidly there, people needed to protest where they could.
where are you from? who taught you what these words mean? tankie? unionize? you know those words have specific applications which don’t match the context in which you are using them? are you aware of how primaries work in US elections?
/genuinely asking because your behavior is very confusing.
my apologies, whenever I've seen people discus the election they didn't mention this was a primary. In that case obviously do not vote for biden.
bruh ok just like be careful what you’re saying with authority, maybe don’t talk with so much confidence about things you self admittedly don’t understand lol
"Tankie" is when you don't vote for a candidate who supports genocide.
The state of the online "tankie" discourse has never been worse.
They has a hammer and sickle in their username, a symbol most socialists have abandoned because of tankies.
socialists have not abandoned the most universally recognized leftist symbol lmao
I personally prefer the socialist rose over the hammer and sickle and the red star, however. Those sorts of symbols, to me at least, evoke the very agrarian-centric revolutions we associate with communism/socialism that came with the side effect of purging intellectuals (as in the USSR, DPRK, PRC, DK/Cambodia etc).
dude that’s literally not true plspls do the smallest of google searches before you post
I once asked what someone meant by it and I got multiple replies from different people with distinct opposite definitions.
Voting for president is damage control.
Real action is local. And voting local is far more influential in the long run.
You need to vote both.
Yeah? So do I. But how do none of you understand game theory? You are not sending a message by not voting for biden.
You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.
Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)
The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists
I love how not voting for a politician who doesn’t represent my values is a bad thing. The founding fathers would puke if they saw how things are ran today.
What's with all the tankies recently? If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.
EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don't vote for biden if there is a better candidate.
People are organizing the uncommitted campaign to get Biden to stop giving billions to support an active genocide
Uncommitted campaign is just a vote for Fuckface 45 in a trenchcoat.
Fuckface 45 is not running in the Democratic primary.
But he's going to win via the Spoiler Effect if people keep this third party shit up.
A vote against Biden is a vote for Fuckface 45.
Until we get rid of First Past the Post voting, at least.
the meme is about a primary election in which Democrats are running against Democrats. no one partaking in this movement is planning to vote 3rd party. you are making uninformed statements, shadow boxing with a situation that doesn’t exist.
And you honestly don't believe people aren't going to keep this mentality up in November?
the biden administration is currently complicit in genocide. maybe if it wants to survive it should consider not being complicit in genocide. 🐛
I see you're voting for Fuckface 45. At least we know, now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Double negative there with the don't aren't, but to answer your question we believe that the people voting in DNC Primaries are going to vote DNC in the general. Anybody who doesn't probably isn't informed enough to be a part of the noncommitted movement to begin with.
You seem like a logical person. I'd like to circle back to the Uncommitted thesis that Biden is in support of genocide, if you will. Since this is the crux of the whole voting campaign.
If you would allow me to ask 4 questions about this whole Uncommitted campaign:
What action(s) is Joe Biden doing that is a DIRECT support of genocide?
What action(s) is Joe Biden actively NOT doing that is a direct support of genocide?
What action(s) should Joe Biden BEGIN to do to that does not support genocide?
What action(s) should Joe Biden STOP doing right now to avoid supporting genocide?
I ask these 4 questions, because right now, I'm not seeing much actual definition of actions that define the support of genocide, nor the quelling of genocidal support.
Should he be sending troops? ...talking? ...cyber warfare? ...sanctions? ...carpet bombing? ...ghosting? ...written threats? ...dehumanization? ...assassination?
These are all examples of actions. There are more things, of course. But right now, I'm not seeing any clarification - no specificity - just absolutist rhetoric from the Uncommitted.
And I'd like to know more.
Just one of very many examples, on December 29th, POTUS Biden circuimvented Congress by having his Secretary of Defence approve weapons sales to Israel without a vote in the senate, mainly artillery munitions and long range shells. For the Second Time that Month. Weapons used to murder innocents. Biden has used UN Veto Power multiple times now to shield Israel from consequences.
Send in Troops, mainly to distribute aid from the shoreline using the Navy's amphibious vehicles, and indirectly protect innocents as the Israelis are less likely to shell the hand that feeds them. Demand the removal of genocidal authoritarian Netanyahu for continued peaceful cooperation from the USA.
Immediate cutoff of all aid to Israel. Full Stop. Removal of the aid from the border bill, end to all Secretary of Defense dealings with them, and Censure of Israel in front of the UN. If Israel is smart they will realize they're surrounded by hornets nest and just lost their veil, so they'll clean up their act or suffer the same atrocities they submit others to.
Stop Vetoing UN Resolutions against Israel. Stop saying Israel has a right to "defend itself" from innocent women and children.
He should be sending in troops, too, honestly. The ICJ's Genocide Ruling justifies invasion to stop the atrocity without any consequence. Israel has failed so spectacularly that they need to be demilitarized and restructured much like Japan once was. The USA created this mess, it's only right that they foot the bill to fix it for the next 40 years. Do I expect that to happen? Fuck no, but it's what would be the most right.
And why should I be the one to educate your ignorant ass on the solutions? You don't think there are articles and scholars and pundits talking about these issues at length that instead you need to come bother me with your stupid ass questions? Fuck off.
Thank you.
So, the truncated version is for the US to go to war again.
You were educating me on things YOU (uncommitted campaign, et al) wanted. I can't know without asking, and my Google Fu wasn't providing specifics. No, I wasn't being a Sea Lion.
As for scholars and the like, it seems like perhaps this whole event is in "good" hands, since they literally know the ins and outs better than the average citizen.
What mentality?
Third party candidates are also not running in the Democratic primaries.
Ok. And? As do I.
But I also understand how voting 3rd party is a vote against Biden, and due to the Spoiler Effect, is a vote for Fuckface 45.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
If you vote for Biden in the primary and not uncommitted or another candidate, you stand against Palestine, plain and simple. Why the fuck is people shutting up and falling in line so important to you when that means letting biden aid and allow genocide? Rhetorical question btw
Not even remotely lol. Like what? It's a primary, get a grip
I think most people here are all for that, but if Trump is president, it's going to get so much worse.
Voting in a two party system is a raw deal, but it's the only deal we have.
You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.
Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)
The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists.
Judging by the number of memes by both groups, I don't think Lemmy has reached any consensus. A lot of the anti-Biden stuff seems bot-like or a shill network but that might just be reflective of the intelligence of the average Trump enthusiast, who do exist here.
:/ Unionize and vote against fascism instead.
?? Unionize what ?? and this is actually a vote against fascism. Israel’s Zionist gov is very fascist and is committing active genocide against a people they view as 2nd class. This vote is getting the US government to use its outsized influence on Israel to end the Palestinian genocide.
The US primary election during an incumbent’s 2nd term reelection is the only place to safely vote like this on a national level in the US’s two party/first past the pole system. The incumbent is guaranteed to sweep, so people who care to enact a much needed end to genocide can vote to show their support for ending Palestinians being murdered.
(In the US, the term unionize is tied to worker groups acting as a collective bargaining unit and not tied to political movements)
I am very much pro palestine. I'm sorry I was not aware this was a primary, in that case voting against biden makes a lot more sense. I meant unionize in the normal way, as you defined it. Unions are an excellent place to also organize protests etc. Unions are absolutely tied to political movements. Here in norway they are/were associated with the workers party, a social democratic party, however they (the party) have been drifting farther and farther towards the center over the years.
I've seen people discus the election and no one brought up that it was a primary, so I foolishly assumed it wasn't.
Ah! Yes this protest vote is symbolic and people will not make the same for the general (real). I understand your and many others’ great worry over the protest vote. No one sane and rational would call for this protest vote for the general election when the alternate (as many others in other countries are well aware, as are we here) is the demise of the US.
Unions have not been a significant force in the US for decades. They’re at least on the up and up recently as the cost of living has skyrocketed. Glad they’re strong there :) hope they won’t drift too wrong
It is a grim time in the US, thanks for your interest in us! We must prevail over fascism, we will try, and hopefully we can end the genocide in Palestine while we’re at it. Some people feel it’s “too much”, but they’re being killed rapidly there, people needed to protest where they could.
where are you from? who taught you what these words mean? tankie? unionize? you know those words have specific applications which don’t match the context in which you are using them? are you aware of how primaries work in US elections?
/genuinely asking because your behavior is very confusing.
my apologies, whenever I've seen people discus the election they didn't mention this was a primary. In that case obviously do not vote for biden.
bruh ok just like be careful what you’re saying with authority, maybe don’t talk with so much confidence about things you self admittedly don’t understand lol
"Tankie" is when you don't vote for a candidate who supports genocide.
The state of the online "tankie" discourse has never been worse.
They has a hammer and sickle in their username, a symbol most socialists have abandoned because of tankies.
socialists have not abandoned the most universally recognized leftist symbol lmao
I personally prefer the socialist rose over the hammer and sickle and the red star, however. Those sorts of symbols, to me at least, evoke the very agrarian-centric revolutions we associate with communism/socialism that came with the side effect of purging intellectuals (as in the USSR, DPRK, PRC, DK/Cambodia etc).
dude that’s literally not true plspls do the smallest of google searches before you post
I once asked what someone meant by it and I got multiple replies from different people with distinct opposite definitions.
Voting for president is damage control.
Real action is local. And voting local is far more influential in the long run.
You need to vote both.
Yeah? So do I. But how do none of you understand game theory? You are not sending a message by not voting for biden.
You do not understand the US primary system, in it only the Democrats are running against each other. Biden is popular and will win, the uncommitted vote is to show how many people care deeply about ending the genocide of the Palestinians. It is safe because there are no fascists as front runners in the US democrat primary.
Due to the two party system/first past the post the US primary is the only safe place to show discontent via vote on a national level. (And only during a 2nd term year)
The genocide of the Palestinians is a very, very horrendous action that is still taking place as I type. This has motivated a significant chunk of people to protest vote, in a way that does not enable fascists
I love how not voting for a politician who doesn’t represent my values is a bad thing. The founding fathers would puke if they saw how things are ran today.