Neoliberal adaptation
If the Twitter/X thing teaches you one thing, let it be this: Twitter was a neoliberal place. Then Elon Musk made it into X, a fascist place. Once again, neoliberalism laid the foundations of fascism. But that’s not the (whole) lesson… Neoliberal folks are still using X, calling it Twitter to make themselves feel better, and pining for the good old days. And there’s the real lesson: When neoliberalism turns into fascism, neoliberals will adapt to life under fascism. Right, class dismissed.
(We really need a better way to crosspost from mastodon...)
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Wikipedia says neoliberalism is considered an insult 🤔
It says the same thing about TERF. When people find accurate, clinically boring descriptions of themselves offensive, it's not the term that's at fault.
I think it's just that people use it as an insult. I think that is the case with many insults. I think retarded started as just a descriptive word.
Except "neoliberal" is insulting because it's accurate.
It's never changed meaning. People just began to realize that neoliberalism is awful and neoliberals are calling it an insult to be accurately described. Exactly like TERFs.
It's not like mentally retarded can't be accurate. But it's the intent and repeated use as an insult that makes an insult and insult. Could just be a neutral descriptor because in itself it doesn't mean something insulting.
It literally can't. That's not the scientifically used word anymore because people changed it into an ableist insult meaning something else than the original descriptive term.
Nobody's changed the meaning of the word neoliberal. That neoliberals pretend otherwise to avoid being called out for being neoliberals doesn't change the meaning of the word or the legitimacy of its use.
You are describing how it was the accurate, descriptive medical term but how the use as an insult made it so that it's an insult. Isn't that exactly what I was saying?
It was and sometimes still is used neutrally as a descriptor of certain type of economic policies. Those who view those economic ideas and policies negatively use it as an insult. In that respect it's the same as "communist", it's not inherently negative and just means someone who believes in the idea of communism. But some, who dislike communism, use it as an insult.
No. You were saying that the meaning of the r-word hasn't changed and can be accurately used to describe what it originally did. That's not true.
Because that's what it means. Always have, always will.
Because to people who know how awful neoliberalism is, it's insulting to be labeled as an adherent of that ideology.
Insulting doesn't automatically mean inaccurate or without use as a factual descriptor.
No it isn't.The vast majority of the people who use the word communist to insult don't know what it actually means beyond cold war propaganda equating it with misery and deliberate evil.
People who use the word neoliberal in a disparaging way are fully aware of the actual meaning and are using that as the insult, not some Reaganesque caricature.
Neoliberals pretend to be centrist or center-left and don't want to be called out as Neoliberals, since everyone knows that's a center right to right wing ideology.
Just like Republicans exhibiting all 14 common characteristics of fascism don't want to be called out on being fascists because people know that fascism is bad.
Emphasized the relevant part. Would be silly to say something started as something and mean it is just the same now. It's like the joke "I used to".
I don't know who you are arguing against. People who view thing negatively use descriptor for the thing as an insult. Yes that's what I've said.
Somehow I feel like both insults see their fair share of inaccurate and accurate use.
This is getting circular, so let's just agree to disagree.
That works
If its any consolation it appears the lemmy hivemind understood your reasoning lol
It seems the hivemind caught onto the multilayered irony of a self-proclaimed "hippie" (an offensive term, originally) who allegedly vikes, frothing at semantics of a derogatory term's classification rather than listening to reason and facts as presented, and repeatedly, no less. One might even, were they less classy than I, wonder whether this so-called long-haired anti-war unpatriotic xenophobe slaver was pantomiming "retarded". 🤔
Yeah iirc it was the clinical and pepper term to replace "mongoloid".
Well, think of it this way. Have you ever heard anybody call themselves a 'neoliberal?'
There's /r/neoliberal. But don't go there. t'is a silly place
I got permanently banned from Reddit for saying that punching Nazis was a good thing.
Probably the best thing that ever happened to me on the interwebs.
Damn i feel like a chump comparitively. I still have my old reddit account tho i haven't logged in since i left for here. I want to see if he becomes a shill if i leave him there.
I'm still banned but they sent me a stock offering. It's a crazy world
That’s the most neoliberal thing I can imagine, auto spamming blocked emails looking for an investment
I guess it is.
The users of it don't like it when you point it out either. Or they try to say it's embracing the joke, as they usually do nothing but show why it's an insult
I've seen people try to reclaim the word.
Any links? I'd like to see their reasoning.
Neoliberal is an accurate descriptor for most liberals, progressive or conservative. The politics they support are similar more than they are different. The strong social safety net libs are social democrats who are either confused or in denial. I can't fault them too much, good political education is basically non-existent in most schools. That still doesn't mend the whole "caving to fascism" thing, social democrats still advocate capitalism. See how Sweden or Finland have been doing lately for a prime example
How are social democrats confused?
They're confused about the nature of capitalism and how power structures function for one but I think you misunderstood my initial comment. I was saying that there are a lot of people that self identify as liberal who, if you listen to their rhetoric, would be better described as social democrats. Not that self identified social democrats are confused, but there are a lot of social democrats who seem to think they're liberal
Ah ok, I understand what you mean. Thank you for clarifying. :)
Anytime!
You're off the rocker lol. How are most liberals neoliberal. It's like you just regurgitate words you saw without knowing what any of them mean.
The status quo in the US is neoliberalism, shifting towards fascism. Joe Biden is upholding the status quo with little in the way of real mitigation of the greatest problems in our country, doubly so for congress. Ardent supporters of the democratic party (a neoliberal party since the Clinton administration) are neoliberal. They vote for, and vocally support a neoliberal party. How aren't they neoliberal?
I'm not talking about confused social democrats. People who call themselves liberal despite falling in line with a social democrat platform.
According to Wiktionary:
The Spanish polisci professor Juan Carlos Monedero explained the utility of the term this way: "Classical liberals challenged the status quo because the status quo was antidemocratic. Neoliberals challenge the status quo because they want the state to shrink."
In US terms, both the Democrats and the Republicans have neoliberals, although both wings are shrinking in favor of progressives and ultraconservatives, respectively, in the last few years.